Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC

  1. #81


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    One can access uninstallers from the program folder in the All Programs list in the start menu. One can go to the Control Panel. But usually, an average user doesn't know what to uninstall. What's in the installed programs list in the Control Panel includes drivers as well. Uninstalling those can cause problems obviously. I'll be speaking in a hypothetical future sense since the DP of 8 doesn't have this, but will be in the beta. A user can locate a program from the Group in the Start Screen, easily and visually see the program, the help documents and the uninstaller. If they don't know what that program is, or don't use it, from the Start Screen they can access the program's uninstaller right there and be done with it. Does that help for relevance?

    The advantage of the Start Screen is not only the visual ability to see what one has installed without going through folders and folders in a large menu, but having internet links pinned, live updating apps displaying new information, and other apps that a user might want. From what everyone that has used the DP of 8, the apps that are installed are only just glimpses of what a metro app can be. Those apps were actually designed and coded by interns that Microsoft had during the process, just interns. There are only a couple dozen or less apps to show what metro apps can be. Speaking of such, Microsoft has shown what a metro styled Desktop program can be, the Zune Software. That's the most metro styled program ever. It probably can be made into a metro app. A media player can be a metro app. Social networking can be a metro app. Even Office probably will have metro apps. They're not just simple little trinkets that take up a whole screen. That's what makes the Start Screen have such potential, it's a new platform based of an existing one that will allow developers to do what they please with a full screen, but for once, these apps will have the common metro design thread throughout them.

    But honestly, the desktop gadgets of Windows 7 technically aren't free, you pay for the license for 7 first. Some of the gadgets have been translated into apps for 8. They're still there, but the license fee.

    How can you reconcile having to watch movies in full screen or games in full screen in a windowing OS?
    Movies and games are things that needed full-screen because when you are playing games or watching movies, its likely that you leave everything behind for the sole purpose of entertaining but apps like media players, MS Office, Windows Explorer and many others are apps that you work with whilst using other apps on a windowed desktop. I for intance working with something on MS Word but listening to music on Windows Media Player but then I have to open another document file which I could locate using Windows Explorer, I need to be able to multitask quickly to do all those things and I think most people will be more comfortable this way than full screen apps that take over the whole screen where it seems I can only perform task on that one opened fullscreen Metro app at a time.

    Actually, if youre watching a DVD movie on a desktop PC, its still possible to multitask. You can just simply pause the movie, minimize Windows Media Center or Windows Media Player for a while and get back to other tasks you were working on the desktop and come back to maximize the media player to fullscreen again. Or when you're gaming, you can just ALT+Tab, then it hides the game screen taking you back to the Desktop to do something else, then just click to the game's button on the taskbar and bingo, it takes you back to the fullscreen game.

    Microsoft could easily improve how they display the list of installed programs on the Add/Remove Programs section on the Control Panel without the need for Metro. They could put description on every installed program so its easier to know what they are for. Its not hard for them to tweak how its listed there at all. I think they have done so many improvements on the Control Panel if you compare Windows XP and Windows 7. I suggest that you do not underestimate average users. As I said before, some of them have learned to tidy those up. If MS wanted, they could have easily devised a way in the Control Panel to group apps and to know which are not essential or not frequently used.

    Maybe what ADRz meant when he said desktop gadgets are "free" was that besides the Windows 7 license, some gadgets come preinstalled (some Metro apps are preinstalled too) and there are hundreds available for download that are openly shared by those who made them without asking for any money so in description, they can be shareware, open source or freeware. You pay for the OS license of course but you don't pay for these shareware, open source or freeware things that you put into your machine.

    In the same sense, when Windows 8 is officially released, you will also need to pay for its license so you could use it and that involves the Metro apps too. You don't pay for the preinstalled Metro apps but you pay for the OS license of the OS that contains them.

    My proposal would be, why don't they just create a separate button for switching from Desktop to Metro on the taskbar instead of integrating Metro into our beloved Start Menu which people like me who is not a tablet user take for granted. I think more people will be happy with this idea of a separate button for Metro. I suggest that you watch this video:

    Systems Administrator Reacts to Windows 8 - YouTube

    That is a picture of how some people working on the enterprise level have reacted to Windows 8 and sadly it wasnt good. Maybe MS should again weigh down the advantages and disadvantages of this design for the good of many and themselves. Everything in Windows 8 except Metro, ribbon on Windows Explorer and Secure Boot is really great in my view but seeing this Metro has many desktop users baffled. Many things are just great about Windows 8 but people's first impression hugely affects their interest on this despite of the other good things they don't know yet and I believe that was a fact with Vista. Vista had some nice features over XP but it got buried down by the things people see as bad. I would choose Vista over XP because I've learned to tweak it like disabling the annoying UAC thing that bugs me as I open apps but unfortunately for Vista, many people did not learn to tweak it and yet others did not even try it then just rode the bandwagon on thinking Vista sucked and refused to upgrade from Windows XP. Microsoft learned their misktake there and came back with Windows 7 which is far superior than any MS operating system before it.

    Windows 8 is great, really great only if MS designs it in a more acceptable way for most people, it will be a success.
    Last edited by Vertex; 23 Dec 2011 at 11:07.

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  2. #82


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    One can access uninstallers from the program folder in the All Programs list in the start menu. One can go to the Control Panel. But usually, an average user doesn't know what to uninstall. What's in the installed programs list in the Control Panel includes drivers as well. Uninstalling those can cause problems obviously. I'll be speaking in a hypothetical future sense since the DP of 8 doesn't have this, but will be in the beta. A user can locate a program from the Group in the Start Screen, easily and visually see the program, the help documents and the uninstaller. If they don't know what that program is, or don't use it, from the Start Screen they can access the program's uninstaller right there and be done with it. Does that help for relevance?

    The advantage of the Start Screen is not only the visual ability to see what one has installed without going through folders and folders in a large menu, but having internet links pinned, live updating apps displaying new information, and other apps that a user might want. From what everyone that has used the DP of 8, the apps that are installed are only just glimpses of what a metro app can be. Those apps were actually designed and coded by interns that Microsoft had during the process, just interns. There are only a couple dozen or less apps to show what metro apps can be. Speaking of such, Microsoft has shown what a metro styled Desktop program can be, the Zune Software. That's the most metro styled program ever. It probably can be made into a metro app. A media player can be a metro app. Social networking can be a metro app. Even Office probably will have metro apps. They're not just simple little trinkets that take up a whole screen. That's what makes the Start Screen have such potential, it's a new platform based of an existing one that will allow developers to do what they please with a full screen, but for once, these apps will have the common metro design thread throughout them.

    But honestly, the desktop gadgets of Windows 7 technically aren't free, you pay for the license for 7 first. Some of the gadgets have been translated into apps for 8. They're still there, but the license fee.

    How can you reconcile having to watch movies in full screen or games in full screen in a windowing OS?
    Movies and games are things that needed full-screen because when you are playing games or watching movies, its likely that you leave everything behind for the sole purpose of entertaining but apps like media players, MS Office, Windows Explorer and many others are apps that you work with whilst using other apps on a windowed desktop. I for intance working with something on MS Word but listening to music on Windows Media Player but then I have to open another document file which I could locate using Windows Explorer, I need to be able to multitask quickly to do all those things and I think most people will be more comfortable this way than full screen apps that take over the whole screen where it seems I can only perform task on that one opened fullscreen Metro app at a time.

    Actually, if youre watching a DVD movie on a desktop PC, its still possible to multitask. You can just simply pause the movie, minimize Windows Media Center or Windows Media Player for a while and get back to other tasks you were working on the desktop and come back to maximize the media player to fullscreen again. Or when you're gaming, you can just ALT+Tab, then it hides the game screen taking you back to the Desktop to do something else, then just click to the game's button on the taskbar and bingo, it takes you back to the fullscreen game.

    Microsoft could easily improve how they display the list of installed programs on the Add/Remove Programs section on the Control Panel without the need for Metro. They could put description on every installed program so its easier to know what they are for. Its not hard for them to tweak how its listed there at all. I think they have done so many improvements on the Control Panel if you compare Windows XP and Windows 7. I suggest that you do not underestimate average users. As I said before, some of them have learned to tidy those up. If MS wanted, they could have easily devised a way in the Control Panel to group apps and to know which are not essential or not frequently used.

    Maybe what ADRz meant when he said desktop gadgets are "free" was that besides the Windows 7 license, some gadgets come preinstalled (some Metro apps are preinstalled too) and there are hundreds available for download that are openly shared by those who made them without asking for any money so in description, they can be shareware, open source or freeware. You pay for the OS license of course but you don't pay for these shareware, open source or freeware things that you put into your machine.

    In the same sense, when Windows 8 is officially released, you will also need to pay for its license so you could use it and that involves the Metro apps too. You don't pay for the preinstalled Metro apps but you pay for the OS license of the OS that contains them.

    My proposal would be, why don't they just create a separate button for switching from Desktop to Metro on the taskbar instead of integrating Metro into our beloved Start Menu which people like me who is not a tablet user take for granted. I think more people will be happy with this idea of a separate button for Metro. I suggest that you watch this video:

    Systems Administrator Reacts to Windows 8 - YouTube

    That is a picture of how some people working on the enterprise level have reacted to Windows 8 and sadly it wasnt good. Maybe MS should again weigh down the advantages and disadvantages of this design for the good of many and themselves. Everything in Windows 8 except Metro, ribbon on Windows Explorer and Secure Boot is really great in my view but seeing this Metro has many desktop users baffled. Many things are just great about Windows 8 but people's first impression hugely affects their interest on this despite of the other good things they don't know yet and I believe that was a fact with Vista. Vista had some nice features over XP but it got buried down by the things people see as bad. I would choose Vista over XP because I've learned to tweak it like disabling the annoying UAC thing that bugs me as I open apps but unfortunately for Vista, many people did not learn to tweak it and yet others did not even try it then just rode the bandwagon on thinking Vista sucked and refused to upgrade from Windows XP. Microsoft learned their misktake there and came back with Windows 7 which is far superior than any MS operating system before it.

    Windows 8 is great, really great only if MS designs it in a more acceptable way for most people, it will be a success.
    Movies and games need to be in full screen for the full experience. That's what metro, full screen apps do. It's a new experience to interact with data and information. When I'm in metro IE, it's just internet. Just internet and nothing else, that's what I'm focused on for the moment. It's a somewhat different experience I'd say. During that time, I have the Zune Player running full screen in Desktop and with one click, I can change songs and in one click, I'm right back to IE. Just like if I was in Desktop mode the entire time.

    Well, uninstallers are in subfolders in the start menu, so you can either uninstall a program from there or in Control Panel. I recently installed EasyBCD to make a portable Windows 7 flashdrive and since I don't use EasyBCD often, I uninstalled it right from the Start Screen in two clicks. If I were to do that in the start menu, it would had taken me three or four clicks.

    But really, if research coming to and from Microsoft stating that most average users don't tidy their menu up, then something needs changing. With Windows 7, a main feature of Windows was changed, the taskbar. And in effect, a main feature of Windows killed another major feature of Windows, the start menu. People don't use it much other than the MFU programs list and to go to Control Panel or Computer. Jumplists and the Taskbar killed the use of it.

    Microsoft did make a separate button from Desktop to Start Screen, the Start button.


    I'd be disappointed if IT pros dismiss 8 because of the Start Screen. It has such benefits and such potential over the start menu. Ever since I've been using Windows 7, I've literally no icons on my desktop ever since. It's either on my Taskbar or start menu. But what's in my all programs list are generally programs I don't use with frequency. With Windows 8, I can keep my desktop unmolested and have a different screen that has ALL my programs and apps. I can always know what I have installed. With 7, I sometimes look at my all programs list and wonder when I installed that program or uninstalled it. It's literally a commanding interface to launch whatever app or program I have on my machine quickly.

    There's so much to the Start Screen that enterprise users can take advantage of, they just need to know how first.

    I disagree with the devil vista, it sucks. Sure, there were things about it that made it better than xp, but then again, look at how long xp was used in the enterprise sector, for some, that's literally a good decade. vista's performance out of the box was barely better than a box of poo. I've come across many a system with vista, and the common theme is just horrid performance. Its registry structure gets easily fragmented, causing system slowness. You can defrag the hard drive all you want, it's the registry issues that plagued that operating system of hell. You could tweak vista all you want, but you'd need to spend hours doing so. Either that, or you have to spend quite some time updating it. Most people don't want to tweak an operating system when they're not even sure about how to use it or what to do. A good operating system doesn't require tweaking of vista proportions, that might be why enterprises skipped vista, way too much work for little gain. And also, there were the driver and software installing issues, but I've gone enough about the devil vista.

    Once you gain knowledge on how to use the Start Screen to its fullest and know what went into the making of, you get an appreciation of it. That's what I think.
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  3. #83


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    You are the most diehard defender of the Metro, I have seen on this forum. You keep repeating on saying the Start Screen has a good potential but respect what others view of it. Its not actually how many people view it even if you seem to be managing it well, as I said before, the first impression hugely affects user interest. I am comfortable with the Windows 7 Desktop now, and I don't even use the control panel to remove apps. I use Revo cause it takes out other junk left by uninstalling apps better than the regular uninstalling using the program's own uninstaller. Even without the Metro, MS could device a way to have users see which apps are not being used like a prompt that appears on the desktop every 60 days telling which are not frequenty used. Its even a bit safer if it would take users more than 2 clicks to remove an app which could be an essential one.

    You could view your apps on a different screen which is the Metro screen but still, when you had lots of programs installed, your Metro screen also gets littered by tiles of these apps and even their uninstallers, so how's that any better than the Desktop if it too can get cluttered?

    I also do not believe it is nessesary to have "full experience" on something as simple as watching the weather update that would only take minutes or even seconds. The Metro apps simple lack the minimize, maximize and close buttons. Very essential buttons there.

    The classic desktop will still win when it comes to multitasking. The only I know to close a Metro app was to try to come back to the Start screen using the Windows button and even with that I's not sure if that app is still running in the background, eating some of my resources.

    Microsoft did make a separate button from Desktop to Start Screen, the Start button.
    I don't understand what you meant with that.

    I know that if click on the bottom left corner of the Start button, it opens a mini Start Menu but never as effective and good as Windows 7 Start Menu. It has a Search function but that just opens a bar at the right that consumes a lot of space anway.

    If I had a 22 inch monitor, that would be great for working with many files. Lets say, I can tile 3 windowed apps side by side so I can see what's going on on each of them without having to minimize one after the other. Check this out, If I had a 22 inch monitor,it would have been great:

    Click image for larger version

    Of if I want to entertain myself while working on something, since this machine has a TV Tuner, I had Windows Media Center with live TV windowed on a smaller screen and also using a built in setting, WMC sits on top of other app windows. Rocking on with Mythbusters here. Man I wish I had a bigger monitor. It would have been so much better. That is the power of Desktop multitasking if used to greater extents. Its just not possible in the current design of the Metro.

    Click image for larger version
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  4. #84


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Movies and games need to be in full screen for the full experience. That's what metro, full screen apps do. It's a new experience to interact with data and information. When I'm in metro IE, it's just internet. Just internet and nothing else, that's what I'm focused on for the moment. It's a somewhat different experience I'd say. During that time, I have the Zune Player running full screen in Desktop and with one click, I can change songs and in one click, I'm right back to IE. Just like if I was in Desktop mode the entire time.

    Well, uninstallers are in subfolders in the start menu, so you can either uninstall a program from there or in Control Panel. I recently installed EasyBCD to make a portable Windows 7 flashdrive and since I don't use EasyBCD often, I uninstalled it right from the Start Screen in two clicks. If I were to do that in the start menu, it would had taken me three or four clicks.

    But really, if research coming to and from Microsoft stating that most average users don't tidy their menu up, then something needs changing. With Windows 7, a main feature of Windows was changed, the taskbar. And in effect, a main feature of Windows killed another major feature of Windows, the start menu. People don't use it much other than the MFU programs list and to go to Control Panel or Computer. Jumplists and the Taskbar killed the use of it.

    Microsoft did make a separate button from Desktop to Start Screen, the Start button.

    I'd be disappointed if IT pros dismiss 8 because of the Start Screen. It has such benefits and such potential over the start menu. Ever since I've been using Windows 7, I've literally no icons on my desktop ever since. It's either on my Taskbar or start menu. But what's in my all programs list are generally programs I don't use with frequency. With Windows 8, I can keep my desktop unmolested and have a different screen that has ALL my programs and apps. I can always know what I have installed. With 7, I sometimes look at my all programs list and wonder when I installed that program or uninstalled it. It's literally a commanding interface to launch whatever app or program I have on my machine quickly.

    There's so much to the Start Screen that enterprise users can take advantage of, they just need to know how first.

    I disagree with the devil vista, it sucks. Sure, there were things about it that made it better than xp, but then again, look at how long xp was used in the enterprise sector, for some, that's literally a good decade. vista's performance out of the box was barely better than a box of poo. I've come across many a system with vista, and the common theme is just horrid performance. Its registry structure gets easily fragmented, causing system slowness. You can defrag the hard drive all you want, it's the registry issues that plagued that operating system of hell. You could tweak vista all you want, but you'd need to spend hours doing so. Either that, or you have to spend quite some time updating it. Most people don't want to tweak an operating system when they're not even sure about how to use it or what to do. A good operating system doesn't require tweaking of vista proportions, that might be why enterprises skipped vista, way too much work for little gain. And also, there were the driver and software installing issues, but I've gone enough about the devil vista.

    Once you gain knowledge on how to use the Start Screen to its fullest and know what went into the making of, you get an appreciation of it. That's what I think.
    Your insistence not to see the obvious problems with the Start Screen befuddles me. In fact, in the Start Screen, a system with lots of programs ends with an unending series of grey boxes each containing a tiny icon that defy any decent organization. You think that this is an advance in the state of computing????

    Another inaccurate statement: "Movies and games need to be in full screen for the full experience". The full experience depends on the user but movies can always be windowed. There is hardly a player that cannot be windowed. In fact, there is nothing in Win7 stopping you from running a video (or life feed of TV or movie) while working on a document. Many games can be windowed as well. It is the programmer and the user that decides in this case, not the OS.

    It is supercilious to state that these Metro apps can only be experienced full screen. Hello? What is in these little apps that demands the full expanse of my 30''-inch screen??? Not even the most demanding application requires this and I must have it for a weather app? I can certainly understand this happening in tablets and smartphones but in a desktop windowing OS???? I believe that from the point of view of a user intending to do real work, this is a definitive hindrance. If you cannot see it, too bad.

    Now, it is not only me that says that Windows 8 would be a bust. In fact, now most predict that it will. More definitive opinions would be forthcoming after the release of the beta but I know that MS is not reneging on the Start Screen nor is it making it optional. I believe that this would be Microsoft's undoing and I will watch it with great sorrow. Microsoft was right to attempt all the things that it did with Vista. I adopted Vista from the very beginning and despite the driver problems, the system matured. Win7 is simply Vista streamlined. Then MS abandoned all the great work in creating a compelling interface to go hunt tablets. This would prove a disaster of great proportions.

    My guess is that six months after the release of Win8, MS will release a renovated Win8 making metro optional. As it should. Tablets and smartphones require different solutions than the desktop. You cannot take a system designed to run a very rich computing environment, slap a Metro screen to it and get it to tablets. This is a disaster on both sides: it dumbs down the desktop and overreaches in the tablet. This is a disaster in the making.

    MS should have adopted WP7 to tablets. Had it done so, it would already be selling them and it may have had some good success against Honeycomb. Now, the tired and over-exposed Metro will have to go against the successor of ICS and this would not be pretty. Sorry, anyway you look at it, ICS is more compelling than Metro in many ways. By the time Win8 tablets come out, they would not even be dealing with ICS but with the successor of ICS!!! It all spells unending trouble for Microsoft.

    MS should have had a simple strategy: (a) Get Win8 to be a compelling general computing OS benefiting from Apple's stumble with OSX Lion and (b) it should have adapted WP7 for tablets. But as Mark Twain remarked: "the problem with common sense is that is not common enough".
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  5. #85


    In fact, in the Start Screen, a system with lots of programs ends with an unending series of grey boxes each containing a tiny icon that defy any decent organization.
    At this point I have to agree, but I'm still liking WDP
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  6. #86


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by vrosa View Post
    In fact, in the Start Screen, a system with lots of programs ends with an unending series of grey boxes each containing a tiny icon that defy any decent organization.
    At this point I have to agree, but I'm still liking WDP
    What do you particularly like and why?
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  7. #87


    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64


    I've been debating on whether to post in this thread, the little guy on my shoulder prevailed.

    Disclaimer:
    Every individual has the right to their own preferences.
    It would be a truly boring world if every person had/liked/used the same things.
    We each have the ability to decide what we want to use, no explanation required.

    Can you imagine being the person responsible for making 'everyone' happy with everything or even one thing?
    It is simply impossible.
    /Disclaimer.

    When I first D/L'ed Win8, didn't know what to think of the Metro Start page, of coarse didn't like it at first glance.
    Decided to give it a try, looked around to find ways to make it 'my own'.
    MS will, according to a few of the usual info sites, make Win8 customizable, including the Metro Start page.
    Now, I like it and will use it, make it my own. At some point may try to disable it, it's an option that I don't think will happen but still an option.

    Haven't spent much time tweaking it, as the WDP will expire.
    Click image for larger version
    Later, when you can change the image of the Icons or when they have something other than the green background, it will look better.
    Size, groups, background, etc. will be customizable.

    Currently using Fences on my Windows7 desktop. Only gadgets are clock, calendar, and weather, with a double click anywhere on the desktop and my most used app icons appear organized in scrollable groups.
    Double click again and only three gadgets are on the clean desktop.
    This may not be for everyone, and that is the great thing about Windows, you can make it yours.

    If you don't like some features in Windows 8, you can change them through windows. If you can't change everything you want, someone will have an app that can.

    We have seen people try and change Windows 7 to look and act like XP.
    After a point Windows 7 will not be able to function any more.
    There is only so much you can do to an OS before it starts to fail.

    Try Windows 8, change what you can, if it starts to have issues and you don't like how your OS looks or functions, you obviously have the option to move to another OS.

    As far as finding people here that like Windows 8 and the Metro UI, well, it is a Windows 8 Forum.

    Let's all accept that we don't have to like the same things.
    No one seems to to be convincing anyone to change their opinions, at least we can agree on that.
    Last edited by Dave76; 25 Dec 2011 at 04:59.
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  8. #88


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Yeah, I agree on that. Someone will come up with a tool to disable or enable Metro. In fact, a tool exists just as the WDP was released and people have found different ways to do so that you can even see on Youtube, from changing a file in the System 32 folder or by a registry hack but yeah, maybe MS should make it optional with a built-in feature. But there's even a nice tutorial on this forum on how to enable/disable it via the context menu as well as disable the ribbon on Windows Explorer.

    Now that there are existing ways to make Metro and ribbon on Windows Explorer optional, that leaves Secure Boot as the last problem for me because I use a dual boot machine where I have Windows and Linux and it may look like to some of us that MS is leveraging itself on the competetion so hopefully this feature will be pulled off. But even so, someone again might have a way to bypass that.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #89


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    I've been debating on whether to post in this thread, the little guy on my shoulder prevailed.

    Disclaimer:
    Every individual has the right to their own preferences.
    It would be a truly boring world if every person had/liked/used the same things.
    We each have the ability to decide what we want to use, no explanation required.

    Can you imagine being the person responsible for making 'everyone' happy with everything or even one thing?
    It is simply impossible.
    /Disclaimer.

    When I first D/L'ed Win8, didn't know what to think of the Metro Start page, of coarse didn't like it at first glance.
    Decided to give it a try, looked around to find ways to make it 'my own'.
    MS will, according to a few of the usual info sites, make Win8 customizable, including the Metro Start page.
    Now, I like it and will use it, make it my own. At some point may try to disable it, it's an option that I don't think will happen but still an option.

    Haven't spent much time tweaking it, as the WDP will expire.
    Click image for larger version
    Later, when you can change the image of the Icons or when they have something other than the green background, it will look better.
    Size, groups, background, etc. will be customizable.

    Currently using Fences on my Windows7 desktop. Only gadgets are clock, calendar, and weather, with a double click anywhere on the desktop and my most used app icons appear organized in scrollable groups.
    Double click again and only three gadgets are on the clean desktop.
    This may not be for everyone, and that is the great thing about Windows, you can make it yours.

    If you don't like some features in Windows 8, you can change them through windows. If you can't change everything you want, someone will have an app that can.

    We have seen people try and change Windows 7 to look and act like XP.
    After a point Windows 7 will not be able to function any more.
    There is only so much you can do to an OS before it starts to fail.

    Try Windows 8, change what you can, if it starts to have issues and you don't like how your OS looks or functions, you obviously have the option to move to another OS.

    As far as finding people here that like Windows 8 and the Metro UI, well, it is a Windows 8 Forum.

    Let's all accept that we don't have to like the same things.
    No one seems to to be convincing anyone to change their opinions, at least we can agree on that.
    First of all, let me tell you that I fully understand that all of us have different likes and dislikes. I appreciate your thoughts and input. Now here are my thoughts and the reply applies to Vertex as well.

    First of all, my point of departure is not "living with Win8". My point of departure is "why do I want Win8". If I have "to live with Win8", then I would surely try to adapt the system, customize it and increase its efficiency. I need to decide if I want it at all and if I would like to install it in a good number of machines in my business. My current examination of Win8 tells me that this is system is poorly (if at all) adopted to my needs. Thus, the answer so far is that I do not need and I do not desire Win8. And I will explain.

    You show only one pane of the Start Screen. If your system even closely resembles mine, scrolling to the right will only reveal panes upon panes of grey boxes with little icons. Yes or no? These icons defy any reasonable organization. Now, how is this remotely more efficient than the current Start menu? it is not. it is the usual presentation of apps in smartphones and tablets. It may make sense in these devices, but it does not make sense in the desktop. Not by a long shot. (Parenthetically, a number of Android smartphone and tablet vendors, have found a answer to this that resembles "Fences". Samsung's "Touchwiz" allows you to create "folders" on the screen where you can assemble similar type apps. That allows for more reasonable organization). So, the moment you depart the first pane of the Start Screen, there is simply chaos.

    Then, you have the fact that the only reason for running this Start Screen is to run these minor apps, the Metro-style apps. Why on earth would I want to do this? We run these apps in smartphones and tablets because we are sort of resources; we are short of processing power, we are short of storage and we are short of memory. Why would you even want to run a Metro-style app on your desktop? There dozens of desktop applications that can provide a far deeper and more impressive computing experience. Then, these Metro-style apps are full screen. Why would I need to run little apps created to provide a decent output in limited resources full screen in a heavy-duty 64-bit quad-processor machine with a 30''-inch screen????? I need this about as well as a hole in the head. Thus, Metro-style apps: (a) provide a worse output and experience than desktop and browser apps; (b) defy multitasking and (c) cannot be windowed. Thus, the last thing any desktop user wants are these Metro-style apps.

    Does Win8 has some minor improvements under the hood? Yes, it does. But in systems like mine, they are totally dispensable. In my various powerful systems, the better use of memory and other resources will not even be noticed.

    I still remain to be convinced of any potential advantages in Win8. I do not see here anything that I like, at least for the desktops and laptops under my care.

    Now, how about tablets? I really do not care about tablets that much, but knowing Metro quite well and knowing ICS, I would say that the latter is better (and does all the things Metro does). In a year from now, MS would be confronting not just ICS-based tablets, but tablets running the successor of ICS!!! My guess is that Metro would be found seriously wanting against these devices. Unfortunately, I foresee that MS's abandonment of the desktop to try and chase the tablet market would only result in disaster. I hope I am wrong.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #90


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    I have a question for you, ADRz.

    IF MS gives you a licensed copy of Windows 8 Ultimate x64 or even when they suceeded in a 128 bit system, given the ways and tweaks to disable Metro anyway, will you still take it and will you use it as your primary OS? In a rare situation like that, I would, anytime though I would rather take a 32 bit one cause I don't have top class hardware like yours.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC
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