Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC

  1. #71


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by ADRz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    I'm sure that some employees of Microsoft are watching this forum. So they know our reactions.

    If the current standing of the WDP would remain till the Beta, I think more people that are already haters of the Metro would further be upset and lose enthusiasm with Windows 8. To some people, they are going backwards with this thing. Going retro with Metro that is.

    However, let us see what a "non-Metro" Windows 8 will perform. I am not yet giving it all a thumbs downs since the "non-Metro" Windows 8 does have advantages over Windows 7. We will know more in weeks to come.

    If there are Microsoft employees here, they would be busy boosting Win8. Their paychecks depend on it. And they would not dare open their mouths in any meetings. They would not want to be labelled as "not team players". You underestimate the power of groupthink.

    As I said in another thread, Microsoft may decide to make the Metro interface optional for the "Enterprise" or "Professional" version of Win8 where it may ask anywhere between $199 to $349 for a license. This again hinges on how they see the enterprise sales going. The decision to have the Metro-style "Start Screen" on without the capability of switching it off seems to have been "hard-coded" because of the announcements of the Microsoft App store. Microsoft is not going to start an app store for an interface that it intends to make optional and which most users would not choose to enable. In fact, during the App Store announcements, MS discussed about the possibility of allowing enterprises to distribute "company apps" by specific workarounds (they would not be visible to the public). So, I do not expect any changes in the beta. If you do, you are an optimist.

    Microsoft may have a plan B. If there is resistance to Win8, it may come out with Win7 "Second Edition" where it may put in some of the Win8 improvements (minor as they are) and sell a few more licenses this way. Or it would simply continue selling Win7 licenses as it happened with WinXP. Distributors would allow users to select either Win8 or Win7 (and the money goes to MS anyway). From the purely commercial point of view, Microsoft is covered either way.

    Where Microsoft may really get hurt is perception among power users. It would not notice at first. This would take some time to bite. When many, including me, abandon Windows for something else, this decision would only be noticed if through our efforts more and more average users start abandoning Windows. At some point, this may get to be a real threat. For example, the Vista debacle cost Microsoft somewhere between 3-5% of global market share. It still has a very high marketshare (just above 90%), but this loss had an effect. The failure of the Metro "Start Screen" may open the way for Apple in the enterprise. Who knows, it is difficult to tell.

    In summary, Microsoft believes that the upside of new Start Screen is good and the downside (some grumbling power users) not that negative. So, do not expect any changes. I would be surprised if there are any.
    If the app store is redundant to you, why use it? I've unpinned the Windows Store link on my Start Screen because I don't need to access it as of now. I haven't needed to use it even though that's what a feature of Windows 8 will be. If you don't want it, you can change it. Windows lets you do that. If you don't want to use metro apps, then don't. Microsoft isn't forcing you to. That's why you can pin other programs to the Screen as well. It's not just metro apps it's designed for. The Start Screen doesn't just work with touch, it works with Desktop users as well. Granted of course, there isn't much to change for it as of yet.

    To think Windows 7 will be the last great operating system of Microsoft is such bull. There's a saying, and it goes, "A computer is only as smart as the person using it." It probably should go, "A computer is only as good as the person who knows how to use it to its max." I mean really? Just to dismiss 8 because of an interface change that will be able to be as pliable as the Desktop? Wow.

    A power user in my eyes knows how to reap the full benefits of an operating system, so we'll see how that will go.

    And I highly doubt average users will turn to apple, or to android for that matter. Some people actually know how to use an interface, some people actually don't reject an interface because it's too much change. But some people will reject an interface if it's unfamiliar. You don't see people jumping the Windows boat to mac because it's a system of complete differences. Keyboard shortcuts don't work, navigation is insane to adapt to. The reason why people use android and apple tablets is because a tablet doesn't have those know functionalities built in them. All you do is touch. That isn't an interface change people don't reject. That's what Windows 8 can offer, touch and familiarity in one product.

    Windows 8 might see some people jumping boat, and there might be statistics saying that those people chose apple because it will never change. People jumped boat on vista because it showed that Microsoft will break the trust of users on releasing a product that doesn't work. vista didn't work, people left. If you look at the mac operating market share, it's near 9 percent. Windows 7 has been out for two years and brought people back to a new, working product that they're used to. In that time, the mac share went up. One reason might just be it's vista 2.0. All Microsoft did was make it work right. Another argument is that all that changed was the taskbar. It's still vista 2.0. I think you should remember the initial release of 7, that's what it was called, vista 2.0. Microsoft doesn't want to tinker with their product, why should consumers stay onto a product that seems like it will stagnate? Windows 8 will show every Windows user that cares that Microsoft is intentionally willing their reputation once more on a product redesign to show people they know where the times are. We're not in the times of having an ultimate desktop with tricked out gadgets or better window management, we're in times where the simple gesture of touch has dominated the field. If consumers see three products, an ipad, an android tablet, and a Windows tablet and they see the first two as iterations of modern times with better touch controls, and the last as a product that only will do great on a laptop or desktop, it says that Microsoft is far behind the times. I don't if you realize, Microsoft has generally been in the past a large innovator when it comes with technology and how people use it. People don't want a vista 3.0.

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  2. #72


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    Well said
    Look at Linux for example -- it's INFINITELY customiseable --and although unless there's a bit of a geek in you most people will give up after possibly attempting one or two distributions.

    The fact you can create a really powerful, very efficient, RELIABLE server for zero dollars / euros / roubles / pounds / kronur / zlotys or whatever will probably be lost on most people but to those who have perservered it's been definitely worth it.

    If MS is opening up a more customiseable desktop to users and providing what the market seems to want -- a consistent interface so their laptop / tablet looks just like their mobile phone well what's wrong with that.

    MS isn't going away any time soon -- it's surviving well in the "Post Gates" era -- but Apple without Steve Jobs is beginning to resemble a rudderless ship in a stormy sea.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  3. #73


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    @Coke Robot

    Well, how's the Metro Start screen better when it too can get so many tiles of programs you don't use? Plus the uninstallers there also get pinned by default. I don't think the Metro start screen is an easier solution at all, plus the Metro apps are full screen which makes it so hard to multi task. It just made it so much harder and unappealing not to you but to me and many others. I see you are a fanboy of this Metro design, and a fanboy of tablets or other MS touch screens as well but you gotta understand that desktop users have a different view. I'm not against Windows 8 at all. I've listed the 3 things I don't want with it on an earlier post and other things about it are positive to me. I just can't bear my Start Menu taking over my whole screen.

    I agree there are lots of Apple fanboys out there that think everything Mac is just great but there are also Windows supporters or lets say fanboys out there that think that changes made by Microsoft are always better for all people which if you consider the different needs and wants of people is not.

    And I do not agree that our world is now dominated by touch. We'll get there someday but even on 2013 when Windows 8 is released, I don't think we're quite there yet. I still use a desktop with no touchscreen and I can see that most enterprises still use a desktop not tablets. If a number of average users and some power users as well see this Metro as an obstacle to ease usability, this might make them refuse to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8. If you look at the poll on this forum, you'll see that the highest number of votes go to people who said they loved Windows 8 except for the Metro thing. Things can take some time to learn or get used to but some people just put this a reason not to move on but perhaps if you give them something that is easier for them to adjust to, I don't think they will be that resistant to change.
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  4. #74


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    @Coke Robot

    Well, how's the Metro Start screen better when it too can get so many tiles of programs you don't use? Plus the uninstallers there also get pinned by default. I don't think the Metro start screen is an easier solution at all, plus the Metro apps are full screen which makes it so hard to multi task. It just made it so much harder and unappealing not to you but to me and many others. I see you are a fanboy of this Metro design, and a fanboy of tablets or other MS touch screens as well but you gotta understand that desktop users have a different view. I'm not against Windows 8 at all. I've listed the 3 things I don't want with it on an earlier post and other things about it are positive to me. I just can't bear my Start Menu taking over my whole screen.

    I agree there are lots of Apple fanboys out there that think everything Mac is just great but there are also Windows supporters or lets say fanboys out there that think that changes made by Microsoft are always better for all people which if you consider the different needs and wants of people is not.

    And I do not agree that our world is now dominated by touch. We'll get there someday but even on 2013 when Windows 8 is released, I don't think we're quite there yet. I still use a desktop with no touchscreen and I can see that most enterprises still use a desktop not tablets. If a number of average users and some power users as well see this Metro as an obstacle to ease usability, this might make them refuse to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8. If you look at the poll on this forum, you'll see that the highest number of votes go to people who said they loved Windows 8 except for the Metro thing. Things can take some time to learn or get used to but some people just put this a reason not to move on but perhaps if you give them something that is easier for them to adjust to, I don't think they will be that resistant to change.
    Vertex, I agree with you.

    I have to say that Start Screen may be OK for tablets and Smartphones. These devices run only full screen apps, there is no windowing on tablets!!! However, the desktop (and laptops) are different beasts and require a different approach.

    Listen, I would not be too upset about the advocacy of the Start Screen by various "fanboys" here. Many are looking gleefully at the possibility of selling their $2.99 apps to the untold millions of Windows users. So, you are going to get some flack here for stating the obvious but you need to understand that many who have used the Developers Preview are just that, developers. Anything negative about the Start Screen endangers their livelihood. They are bound to defend at all costs because all they can see are dollar signs.

    I am sure that countless "developers" are busy coding weather apps which they intend to sell for $1.99 to $4.99 when previously, in Win7, you got all that for free with a desktop gadget and always had access to the desktop with a single click (the bottom right button). Microsoft has been busy eliminating all these to open the way for these "developers".

    Microsoft's policy would be totally irrelevant soon. By the time there is a Win8 tablet, Android 4.0 and 5.0 tablets will be so dominating the field (especially with Amazon championing it), that the Windows tablets will be again marginal devices. Microsoft has a tough time dealing with this. Instead of making a great OS for desktops, laptops and ultrabooks, it is only thinking "tablets" and "smartphones".

    How irrelevant the Microsoft approach is is highligthed by today's news. Apple is developing now fuel-cell laptops that would run for weeks without charge. As soon as these come out, the Windows laptop space would be devastated again trying to catch up to Apple, as it happened with the Mac Air. But this is what happens when one abandons the field that they were dominating to try to fight a losing battle in a field of the opponents choice.
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  5. #75


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    @Coke Robot

    Well, how's the Metro Start screen better when it too can get so many tiles of programs you don't use? Plus the uninstallers there also get pinned by default. I don't think the Metro start screen is an easier solution at all, plus the Metro apps are full screen which makes it so hard to multi task. It just made it so much harder and unappealing not to you but to me and many others. I see you are a fanboy of this Metro design, and a fanboy of tablets or other MS touch screens as well but you gotta understand that desktop users have a different view. I'm not against Windows 8 at all. I've listed the 3 things I don't want with it on an earlier post and other things about it are positive to me. I just can't bear my Start Menu taking over my whole screen.

    I agree there are lots of Apple fanboys out there that think everything Mac is just great but there are also Windows supporters or lets say fanboys out there that think that changes made by Microsoft are always better for all people which if you consider the different needs and wants of people is not.

    And I do not agree that our world is now dominated by touch. We'll get there someday but even on 2013 when Windows 8 is released, I don't think we're quite there yet. I still use a desktop with no touchscreen and I can see that most enterprises still use a desktop not tablets. If a number of average users and some power users as well see this Metro as an obstacle to ease usability, this might make them refuse to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8. If you look at the poll on this forum, you'll see that the highest number of votes go to people who said they loved Windows 8 except for the Metro thing. Things can take some time to learn or get used to but some people just put this a reason not to move on but perhaps if you give them something that is easier for them to adjust to, I don't think they will be that resistant to change.
    How is the start menu any better? If a user has a screen full of tiled programs they don't use, and the uninstallers are right there, seems fairly obvious. When you install a program in 7, the uninstaller gets placed in a program folder by default unless one deletes it or moves it. I myself don't fine it difficult to multitask between Metro and Desktop. It takes a simple click on the left side of the screen.

    If being a fanboy of metro design means it doesn't bother me and I can understand it, then ok, I am one. I am also a desktop user and have always championed for the desktop. I've always thought laptops were irrelevant for extreme usage and tablets were nothing more than a mobile platform for angry birds. Technology has changed and the software has to change along with it. I understand you view the Start Screen as a hindrance to multitasking, but you truly need to use every aspect of it to fully see whether or not it's terrible. I think there's great potential.


    Two years ago, netbooks were quite popular and Windows 7 made them modern and usable. Laptops were regarded are just a portable, temporary use of computing. The ipad came out. Since then, netbooks are being phased out. Laptop technology has gone to the point of 6 hour usage on an i5 processor and a mobile NVIDIA graphics card. Enterprises are adopting the ipad for on the field work. The android tablets have tried to invade the touch market and are still failing compared to the ipad. Touch is becoming quite popular. Even though I won't admit it, the desktop might become less prevalent if things don't change. More and more people are buying laptops than before. Soon in the future, more and more people will be buying tablets. I see in 2012 and on, touch will be much more mainstream.

    I use a desktop without a touch screen. I've always been a desktop user. I use it a lot for Windows 7 installations for laptops when I move chunks of data. I've even used 8 to do some of that. I see metro as a dual purpose interface with lots of potential. It either will be used primarily for touch users, maybe even by desktop users that want to use metro styled apps, or even just a visual start menu for others.

    As you said, things can take some time to learn or get used to.
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  6. #76


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by ADRz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    @Coke Robot

    Well, how's the Metro Start screen better when it too can get so many tiles of programs you don't use? Plus the uninstallers there also get pinned by default. I don't think the Metro start screen is an easier solution at all, plus the Metro apps are full screen which makes it so hard to multi task. It just made it so much harder and unappealing not to you but to me and many others. I see you are a fanboy of this Metro design, and a fanboy of tablets or other MS touch screens as well but you gotta understand that desktop users have a different view. I'm not against Windows 8 at all. I've listed the 3 things I don't want with it on an earlier post and other things about it are positive to me. I just can't bear my Start Menu taking over my whole screen.

    I agree there are lots of Apple fanboys out there that think everything Mac is just great but there are also Windows supporters or lets say fanboys out there that think that changes made by Microsoft are always better for all people which if you consider the different needs and wants of people is not.

    And I do not agree that our world is now dominated by touch. We'll get there someday but even on 2013 when Windows 8 is released, I don't think we're quite there yet. I still use a desktop with no touchscreen and I can see that most enterprises still use a desktop not tablets. If a number of average users and some power users as well see this Metro as an obstacle to ease usability, this might make them refuse to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8. If you look at the poll on this forum, you'll see that the highest number of votes go to people who said they loved Windows 8 except for the Metro thing. Things can take some time to learn or get used to but some people just put this a reason not to move on but perhaps if you give them something that is easier for them to adjust to, I don't think they will be that resistant to change.
    Vertex, I agree with you.

    I have to say that Start Screen may be OK for tablets and Smartphones. These devices run only full screen apps, there is no windowing on tablets!!! However, the desktop (and laptops) are different beasts and require a different approach.

    Listen, I would not be too upset about the advocacy of the Start Screen by various "fanboys" here. Many are looking gleefully at the possibility of selling their $2.99 apps to the untold millions of Windows users. So, you are going to get some flack here for stating the obvious but you need to understand that many who have used the Developers Preview are just that, developers. Anything negative about the Start Screen endangers their livelihood. They are bound to defend at all costs because all they can see are dollar signs.

    I am sure that countless "developers" are busy coding weather apps which they intend to sell for $1.99 to $4.99 when previously, in Win7, you got all that for free with a desktop gadget and always had access to the desktop with a single click (the bottom right button). Microsoft has been busy eliminating all these to open the way for these "developers".

    Microsoft's policy would be totally irrelevant soon. By the time there is a Win8 tablet, Android 4.0 and 5.0 tablets will be so dominating the field (especially with Amazon championing it), that the Windows tablets will be again marginal devices. Microsoft has a tough time dealing with this. Instead of making a great OS for desktops, laptops and ultrabooks, it is only thinking "tablets" and "smartphones".

    How irrelevant the Microsoft approach is is highligthed by today's news. Apple is developing now fuel-cell laptops that would run for weeks without charge. As soon as these come out, the Windows laptop space would be devastated again trying to catch up to Apple, as it happened with the Mac Air. But this is what happens when one abandons the field that they were dominating to try to fight a losing battle in a field of the opponents choice.
    Wow. Weather apps? Really? That's all you see for metro apps? Gee.....

    You get a weather app free in Windows 8.

    HA! android tablets dominating! They haven't been able to make a dent in the ipad for years, 4 major updates haven't done jack. android is a flailing interface for tablets that manufacturers would rather drop and forget about. They're bleeding those manufactures dry over a me too device. They'd rather be using a Windows product.

    Even then, I've looked at the android 4 update, looks a lot like google thieving product design once more, not from apple, but from the Windows Phone this time.

    I'm pretty sure my argument falls on deaf ears when it comes to people blinded by the fact that people are buying tablets more than they did ever and just having Microsoft focus just on desktops is a declaration of bankruptcy.
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  7. #77


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    Wow. Weather apps? Really? That's all you see for metro apps? Gee.....

    You get a weather app free in Windows 8.

    HA! android tablets dominating! They haven't been able to make a dent in the ipad for years, 4 major updates haven't done jack. android is a flailing interface for tablets that manufacturers would rather drop and forget about. They're bleeding those manufactures dry over a me too device. They'd rather be using a Windows product.

    Even then, I've looked at the android 4 update, looks a lot like google thieving product design once more, not from apple, but from the Windows Phone this time.

    I'm pretty sure my argument falls on deaf ears when it comes to people blinded by the fact that people are buying tablets more than they did ever and just having Microsoft focus just on desktops is a declaration of bankruptcy.
    Let's clear up the air here:

    The first generation of Android tablets were unable to crack the iPad dominance because they did not offer a compelling ecosystem and because they were as or even more expensive than the iPad. There was no music or movie store and Netflix did not even run on Android. However, this has changed dramatically with the release of Amazon's Kindle Fire and with the Nook Color. Netflix also released a perfect app for Android. Google has created a music and movie store and there are even two app stores for Android with hundreds of thousands of apps (Google and Amazon). There is no way of Microsoft matching any of this. In addition, as you said it, Android 4.0 incorporates a lot of the good ideas of WP7 and then some. Let's face it, Microsoft is out of this game.

    My prediction: (a) the Microsoft ARM tablets, lacking any kind of ecosystem, would disappear very quickly, if they appear at all; (b) Microsoft Intel tablets would be a more expensive proposition and they would be positioned for the enterprise for content that requires somebody to run Windows applications. Both of these would be marginal players, at best.

    Now, you seem to be a proponent of the Start Screen although you cannot even justify the additional clicks. I think that it takes all kinds. Not all change is good. I can mention many "advances" in OSs that did not turn out to be advances and many actually led to the demise of said OS. We can all learn new things but these new things have to have some kind of utility. I have no problem utilizing a Metro-style Start Screen if it provided any kind of an advantage to me. You fail to articulate what that advantage maybe. I have been reading your posts and I cannot figure out what you are talking about. How is the comment for uninstallers even relevant? One can get access to all uninstallers through the control panel. So, I cannot even understand your comments.

    The only reason for the existence of the Start Screen on the desktop and laptop versions of Win8 is:
    (a) Condition users to the Metro-style interface so that they can go out and buy Windows tablets and smartphones
    (b) Making money for Microsoft by selling stupid little apps to millions of users for something that they were getting free so far!!!

    In other words, it is just a marketing devise.

    Now, how can you even reconcile having another UI layer on Windows running full screen apps only in a windowing OS??? Come again??
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  8. #78


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    How is the start menu any better? If a user has a screen full of tiled programs they don't use, and the uninstallers are right there, seems fairly obvious. When you install a program in 7, the uninstaller gets placed in a program folder by default unless one deletes it or moves it. I myself don't fine it difficult to multitask between Metro and Desktop. It takes a simple click on the left side of the screen.

    If being a fanboy of metro design means it doesn't bother me and I can understand it, then ok, I am one. I am also a desktop user and have always championed for the desktop. I've always thought laptops were irrelevant for extreme usage and tablets were nothing more than a mobile platform for angry birds. Technology has changed and the software has to change along with it. I understand you view the Start Screen as a hindrance to multitasking, but you truly need to use every aspect of it to fully see whether or not it's terrible. I think there's great potential.


    Two years ago, netbooks were quite popular and Windows 7 made them modern and usable. Laptops were regarded are just a portable, temporary use of computing. The ipad came out. Since then, netbooks are being phased out. Laptop technology has gone to the point of 6 hour usage on an i5 processor and a mobile NVIDIA graphics card. Enterprises are adopting the ipad for on the field work. The android tablets have tried to invade the touch market and are still failing compared to the ipad. Touch is becoming quite popular. Even though I won't admit it, the desktop might become less prevalent if things don't change. More and more people are buying laptops than before. Soon in the future, more and more people will be buying tablets. I see in 2012 and on, touch will be much more mainstream.

    I use a desktop without a touch screen. I've always been a desktop user. I use it a lot for Windows 7 installations for laptops when I move chunks of data. I've even used 8 to do some of that. I see metro as a dual purpose interface with lots of potential. It either will be used primarily for touch users, maybe even by desktop users that want to use metro styled apps, or even just a visual start menu for others.

    As you said, things can take some time to learn or get used to.
    The Start Menu is better for me because it doesn't take over the whole screen as simple as that. I want to able to launch apps without having this whole Metro thing take over my whole screen that it hinders me from seeing what's going on with my windowed apps that are displayed on my desktop workspace. I don't want the weather app taking over the whole screen either if a desktop gadget that isnt big enough to hinder everything else can do that for me as I do not require so much animations and space to get the weather info I want. That would'nt be so hard to understand. People like you who love this design think it has great potential and I respect that but for people who share the same views as me, its a hindrance.

    If I owned a netbook, it gets even harder for me since it has a small screen. I did not like the iPad because I can't multitask with it and even the onscreen keyboards takes space when I felt I can do more on a netbook with a real keyboard that runs Windows 7 in it, rock on. If I'm a gamer, I would prefer a desktop over netbooks or tablets or phones because they had more power and a bigger display to view online or FPS games like Call of Duty that I love, not just Angry Birds. I still prefer my desktop for home use because its hardware components are easier to find on stores around unlike those in netbooks, laptops and of course tablets.

    I think tablets are not that close yet in dominating the coputing world. In my place, very few people have one and its expensive. Its still dominated by desktops, laptops and netbooks. In 5-10 years, maybe that would be the right time to say that tablets are very popular.
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  9. #79


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    How is the start menu any better? If a user has a screen full of tiled programs they don't use, and the uninstallers are right there, seems fairly obvious. When you install a program in 7, the uninstaller gets placed in a program folder by default unless one deletes it or moves it. I myself don't fine it difficult to multitask between Metro and Desktop. It takes a simple click on the left side of the screen.

    If being a fanboy of metro design means it doesn't bother me and I can understand it, then ok, I am one. I am also a desktop user and have always championed for the desktop. I've always thought laptops were irrelevant for extreme usage and tablets were nothing more than a mobile platform for angry birds. Technology has changed and the software has to change along with it. I understand you view the Start Screen as a hindrance to multitasking, but you truly need to use every aspect of it to fully see whether or not it's terrible. I think there's great potential.


    Two years ago, netbooks were quite popular and Windows 7 made them modern and usable. Laptops were regarded are just a portable, temporary use of computing. The ipad came out. Since then, netbooks are being phased out. Laptop technology has gone to the point of 6 hour usage on an i5 processor and a mobile NVIDIA graphics card. Enterprises are adopting the ipad for on the field work. The android tablets have tried to invade the touch market and are still failing compared to the ipad. Touch is becoming quite popular. Even though I won't admit it, the desktop might become less prevalent if things don't change. More and more people are buying laptops than before. Soon in the future, more and more people will be buying tablets. I see in 2012 and on, touch will be much more mainstream.

    I use a desktop without a touch screen. I've always been a desktop user. I use it a lot for Windows 7 installations for laptops when I move chunks of data. I've even used 8 to do some of that. I see metro as a dual purpose interface with lots of potential. It either will be used primarily for touch users, maybe even by desktop users that want to use metro styled apps, or even just a visual start menu for others.

    As you said, things can take some time to learn or get used to.
    The Start Menu is better for me because it doesn't take over the whole screen as simple as that. I want to able to launch apps without having this whole Metro thing take over my whole screen that it hinders me from seeing what's going on with my windowed apps that are displayed on my desktop workspace. I don't want the weather app taking over the whole screen either if a desktop gadget that isnt big enough to hinder everything else can do that for me as I do not require so much animations and space to get the weather info I want. That would'nt be so hard to understand. People like you who love this design think it has great potential and I respect that but for people who share the same views as me, its a hindrance.

    If I owned a netbook, it gets even harder for me since it has a small screen. I did not like the iPad because I can't multitask with it and even the onscreen keyboards takes space when I felt I can do more on a netbook with a real keyboard that runs Windows 7 in it, rock on. If I'm a gamer, I would prefer a desktop over netbooks or tablets or phones because they had more power and a bigger display to view online or FPS games like Call of Duty that I love, not just Angry Birds. I still prefer my desktop for home use because its hardware components are easier to find on stores around unlike those in netbooks, laptops and of course tablets.

    I think tablets are not that close yet in dominating the coputing world. In my place, very few people have one and its expensive. Its still dominated by desktops, laptops and netbooks. In 5-10 years, maybe that would be the right time to say that tablets are very popular.
    If that's your choice, ok then. If that works for you, that works for you.

    I too think desktops are great. I'd rather rebuild my case and build a new system myself than buy a generic styled case with just adequate hardware, in fact, that's what I'm currently in the process of doing. I'm just waiting for the newer AMD APUs to come out.

    Tablets aren't there in just yet in the main stream, but it's creeping there. Who know, Windows 8 might end up being that spark that kicks off the touch mainstream.

    On a side note, one doesn't need to launch the weather app over and over again to get weather info. Some metro apps are design for live updates. It's a brilliant feature of the WP7, find information at a glance, and be done with it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #80


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by ADRz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    Wow. Weather apps? Really? That's all you see for metro apps? Gee.....

    You get a weather app free in Windows 8.

    HA! android tablets dominating! They haven't been able to make a dent in the ipad for years, 4 major updates haven't done jack. android is a flailing interface for tablets that manufacturers would rather drop and forget about. They're bleeding those manufactures dry over a me too device. They'd rather be using a Windows product.

    Even then, I've looked at the android 4 update, looks a lot like google thieving product design once more, not from apple, but from the Windows Phone this time.

    I'm pretty sure my argument falls on deaf ears when it comes to people blinded by the fact that people are buying tablets more than they did ever and just having Microsoft focus just on desktops is a declaration of bankruptcy.
    Let's clear up the air here:

    The first generation of Android tablets were unable to crack the iPad dominance because they did not offer a compelling ecosystem and because they were as or even more expensive than the iPad. There was no music or movie store and Netflix did not even run on Android. However, this has changed dramatically with the release of Amazon's Kindle Fire and with the Nook Color. Netflix also released a perfect app for Android. Google has created a music and movie store and there are even two app stores for Android with hundreds of thousands of apps (Google and Amazon). There is no way of Microsoft matching any of this. In addition, as you said it, Android 4.0 incorporates a lot of the good ideas of WP7 and then some. Let's face it, Microsoft is out of this game.

    My prediction: (a) the Microsoft ARM tablets, lacking any kind of ecosystem, would disappear very quickly, if they appear at all; (b) Microsoft Intel tablets would be a more expensive proposition and they would be positioned for the enterprise for content that requires somebody to run Windows applications. Both of these would be marginal players, at best.

    Now, you seem to be a proponent of the Start Screen although you cannot even justify the additional clicks. I think that it takes all kinds. Not all change is good. I can mention many "advances" in OSs that did not turn out to be advances and many actually led to the demise of said OS. We can all learn new things but these new things have to have some kind of utility. I have no problem utilizing a Metro-style Start Screen if it provided any kind of an advantage to me. You fail to articulate what that advantage maybe. I have been reading your posts and I cannot figure out what you are talking about. How is the comment for uninstallers even relevant? One can get access to all uninstallers through the control panel. So, I cannot even understand your comments.

    The only reason for the existence of the Start Screen on the desktop and laptop versions of Win8 is:
    (a) Condition users to the Metro-style interface so that they can go out and buy Windows tablets and smartphones
    (b) Making money for Microsoft by selling stupid little apps to millions of users for something that they were getting free so far!!!

    In other words, it is just a marketing devise.

    Now, how can you even reconcile having another UI layer on Windows running full screen apps only in a windowing OS??? Come again??
    True, android now has hundreds and thousands of apps. Two app stores? Really, one isn't enough? True, Microsoft can't match that, but then again, they're not hosting an app store unregulated. android has the uncertainty of not knowing if certain apps aren't malware or spyware. They've been incidences of such just on the phones. But really, the argument goes to back to do people really need hundreds upon thousands of apps? I mean, above the productivity, utility, and info apps, the rest are just games and time wasters. But android in general incorporates a lot of what a jailbroken iphone would be.

    Intel has been working on ARM and x86 chips for tablets, along with NVIDIA's Tegra chip, and I'm sure AMD is working hard as well, all for Windows 8 tablets.

    I can justify the click. One simple click on the left hand side of the screen can put you right back into an app. If one has multiple apps running, one can drag the mouse cursor to the left side and scroll through the Live previews of the apps, and then click. There's not much justification needed, it's like justifying why you need to click on IE or Firefox or an Office program to go back to using it. If you have programs windowed, you simply click on the title bar.

    One can access uninstallers from the program folder in the All Programs list in the start menu. One can go to the Control Panel. But usually, an average user doesn't know what to uninstall. What's in the installed programs list in the Control Panel includes drivers as well. Uninstalling those can cause problems obviously. I'll be speaking in a hypothetical future sense since the DP of 8 doesn't have this, but will be in the beta. A user can locate a program from the Group in the Start Screen, easily and visually see the program, the help documents and the uninstaller. If they don't know what that program is, or don't use it, from the Start Screen they can access the program's uninstaller right there and be done with it. Does that help for relevance?

    The advantage of the Start Screen is not only the visual ability to see what one has installed without going through folders and folders in a large menu, but having internet links pinned, live updating apps displaying new information, and other apps that a user might want. From what everyone that has used the DP of 8, the apps that are installed are only just glimpses of what a metro app can be. Those apps were actually designed and coded by interns that Microsoft had during the process, just interns. There are only a couple dozen or less apps to show what metro apps can be. Speaking of such, Microsoft has shown what a metro styled Desktop program can be, the Zune Software. That's the most metro styled program ever. It probably can be made into a metro app. A media player can be a metro app. Social networking can be a metro app. Even Office probably will have metro apps. They're not just simple little trinkets that take up a whole screen. That's what makes the Start Screen have such potential, it's a new platform based of an existing one that will allow developers to do what they please with a full screen, but for once, these apps will have the common metro design thread throughout them.

    But honestly, the desktop gadgets of Windows 7 technically aren't free, you pay for the license for 7 first. Some of the gadgets have been translated into apps for 8. They're still there, but the license fee.

    How can you reconcile having to watch movies in full screen or games in full screen in a windowing OS?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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