Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC

  1. #11


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    I agree, full screen apps are pain. I don't want full screen apps, I still want windowed apps that I can multitask with and I'm sure many want that as well, why didnt they just made a separate version of this operating system for tablets then?

    I still want a solid desktop system but with improved performance which is faster and tweaks to the existing preinstalled apps. The native PDF reader and the improved task manager are examples of this. I want a system that is more secure and less prone to bugs and crashes not a tiled environment with full screen apps that made things harder if I'm not using touchscreen.

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  2. #12


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    I agree, full screen apps are pain. I don't want full screen apps, I still want windowed apps that I can multitask with and I'm sure many want that as well, why didnt they just made a separate version of this operating system for tablets then?

    I still want a solid desktop system but with improved performance which is faster and tweaks to the existing preinstalled apps. The native PDF reader and the improved task manager are examples of this. I want a system that is more secure and less prone to bugs and crashes not a tiled environment with full screen apps that made things harder if I'm not using touchscreen.
    Maybe we get all of that in Win9...just maybe.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I don't quite get how people seem to be flat out rejecting Metro design altogether. A WP7 tablet would seem nice, but if you look at google and apple tablets, you're buying simply either a giant itouch or a giant android phone without calling capability. A WP7 tablet would be a giant WP7 without the calling.

    And I don't understand that some people seem to think the days of power using of the Desktop is gone. It's not. It's been more into something else. Hmm, can some of you show me how you've configured your Start Screen?...
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  4. #14


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Many of us reject it simply because many of us are desktop users not tablet fanboys. We are used to multi task with the desktop in home and office use. Many of us don't want full screen apps (like those in the Metro) to make things harder because full screen apps ruin multitasking and make navigation harder since we use keyboards and mice, not touchscreen monitors or displays like those in tablets. Unfamiliarity with the Metro and the somewhat few new features added on Windows 8 over Windows 7 is a reason why I see less people to upgrade to Windows 8 than expected IF the current standing of Windows 8's design were to remain. I just hope it doesn't turn out that way in the beta or RC or on the final version.

    If XP was a success, Vista wasn't, Windows 7 was so far best, if that pattern continues, its not looking too bright for Windows 8. Lets hope it doesn't turn out like Vista.

    What I don't understand is why would MS gamble on design change that could obviously cripple the ease of use for many users and why would some others still approve the way that design is.

    I don't want a tablet, I just want a solid desktop PC.
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  5. #15


    This has been a great post to read, I take my HaT off to you all for your opinions -iii-
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  6. #16


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I don't quite get how people seem to be flat out rejecting Metro design altogether. A WP7 tablet would seem nice, but if you look at google and apple tablets, you're buying simply either a giant itouch or a giant android phone without calling capability. A WP7 tablet would be a giant WP7 without the calling.

    And I don't understand that some people seem to think the days of power using of the Desktop is gone. It's not. It's been more into something else. Hmm, can some of you show me how you've configured your Start Screen?...
    I think that the reason for the rejection of Metro by desktop users is obvious. It is a hindrance. Its "full screen" apps inhibit multitasking and windowing (which helps productivity). It may be good in tablets, but this is a very different environment.

    As things are, Win8 on ARM tablets is really not even a giant phone without calling. There is nothing behind, not a rich environment of apps and content. Wi8 on Intel tablets will be just too expensive for the average consumer.

    Instead of this monomaniac chase of a non-opportunity, MS should have worked hard to make the desktop a very compelling environment; they could have concentrated on a smaller footprint OS for tablets. Instead, they are even talking about moving Win8 to the phones too!!!
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  7. #17


    Bay Area
    Posts : 21,841
    Windows 7 Home Premium x64


    I think it's entirely possible MS is not concerned about desktop users with this OS. They still have Windows Seven which is an unqualified hit. They need to get into the portable/tablet market which is where the new movement has been. If they had done this after Vista which has such a negative connotation, they would have been shooting themselves in the foot. But since the newer generations of users are being weened on tablets and phones, they will find it all so familiar on a disktop or laptop. In fact, "hey a bigger screen" for them.

    If Eight turns out to have a satisfactory desktop interface as well, then they will pick up some users switching form XP/Vista who don't want to use an older version (Seven) despite the fact that it is more then relevant. People aren't going to dump windows for something else, they'll just stick to/switch to Seven instead. MS gets it's "mobile" OS, and latches on to "the future". While we geeks may be disappointed as we (well you ) like to play with a new OS, it would be akin to MS saying we are coming out with a new mobile OS, and not make it seem like it is the replacement for Seven. By not stating as such, they are leaving that possibility open.

    A Guy
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  8. #18


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Another thing I think is being misrepresented here is that Metro means keyboards and mice are useless. What?! The only thing that has made them somewhat irrelevant is that Windows Explorer has a ribbon and has all the keyboard shortcuts graphically. It's the same thing that happened with Office 2007. People didn't like it since it had so much upfront and all the menus that power users used were gone. But those menus were introduced initially because people couldn't remember keyboard shortcuts.

    As for mice, they're still used. In fact, navigating between Metro apps is actually superior as of now than touch since you can use a scroll wheel to switch to a specific app instead of shuffling through a bunch of apps.

    The whole reason why Metro design was introduced for Windows 8 was because the Desktop really can't be developed any further. Microsoft could had made the Desktop to look like Windows 3.1 with giant windows and little information displayable. They didn't, they meshed a new interface with the Desktop. Even then, I think it better manages installed programs better than previous versions since you visually see everything and easily navigate through the Start Screen. The desktop of Windows 8 is literally just of 7 with a Metro sidebar when you use the Charms bar or click on the network tray icon. Speaking of such, I think the sidebar for the networking is much better because for laptops and other mobile devices that bounce off wifi, some people are in places where there's just a plethora of networks and you have to scroll like made to get on one.

    Speaking of android 4, I've seen some screenshots and seen the visual animations of it, it goes to show how much google sucks on others' ideas. I've seen some Metro design of it in the settings menus based of the WP7. Metro design is coming everywhere. Google has done it, facebook has done it, it's in Office 2010 and Live Essentials 2011, just the essence of Metro design is in youtube, it's obviously in IE 9. Software design has gone from unnecessary visual fluff from Windows vista to the android phone. It's superfluous. Metro design is everything in every vision of the future: simplistic. It's natural of human beings, we want simplicity. We want a simple government that works, we want to live a simple life, we want to use interfaces that are simply designed.

    I don't know, some people obviously won't accept change even though the benefits outweigh the cons....
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  9. #19


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Another thing I think is being misrepresented here is that Metro means keyboards and mice are useless. What?! The only thing that has made them somewhat irrelevant is that Windows Explorer has a ribbon and has all the keyboard shortcuts graphically. It's the same thing that happened with Office 2007. People didn't like it since it had so much upfront and all the menus that power users used were gone. But those menus were introduced initially because people couldn't remember keyboard shortcuts.

    As for mice, they're still used. In fact, navigating between Metro apps is actually superior as of now than touch since you can use a scroll wheel to switch to a specific app instead of shuffling through a bunch of apps.

    The whole reason why Metro design was introduced for Windows 8 was because the Desktop really can't be developed any further. Microsoft could had made the Desktop to look like Windows 3.1 with giant windows and little information displayable. They didn't, they meshed a new interface with the Desktop. Even then, I think it better manages installed programs better than previous versions since you visually see everything and easily navigate through the Start Screen. The desktop of Windows 8 is literally just of 7 with a Metro sidebar when you use the Charms bar or click on the network tray icon. Speaking of such, I think the sidebar for the networking is much better because for laptops and other mobile devices that bounce off wifi, some people are in places where there's just a plethora of networks and you have to scroll like made to get on one.

    Speaking of android 4, I've seen some screenshots and seen the visual animations of it, it goes to show how much google sucks on others' ideas. I've seen some Metro design of it in the settings menus based of the WP7. Metro design is coming everywhere. Google has done it, facebook has done it, it's in Office 2010 and Live Essentials 2011, just the essence of Metro design is in youtube, it's obviously in IE 9. Software design has gone from unnecessary visual fluff from Windows vista to the android phone. It's superfluous. Metro design is everything in every vision of the future: simplistic. It's natural of human beings, we want simplicity. We want a simple government that works, we want to live a simple life, we want to use interfaces that are simply designed.

    I don't know, some people obviously won't accept change even though the benefits outweigh the cons....
    We disagree profoundly. You have made a number of statements that I believe to be incorrect.

    (a) Opponents of metro believe that keyboards and mice are rendered useless
    (b) The desktop cannot be developed any further.

    None of these assumptions are true. The opponents of metro are not worried about keyboards and mice. They are worried about a useless interface. Also, to believe that the desktop cannot be developed any further is simply crazy. In fact, one can come up with dozens of new ideas of how to enhance the desktop. I think that Android 4.0 shows the way pretty well.

    Now, I have a very cynical view as to why MS decided to inflict metro on all of us. MS figured out that one of the key reasons of Apple's success with the iPad is that the public had been conditioned to iOs interface from the iPhone. Thus, MS figured out that if they conditioned the public to the Metro interface in the desktop and laptop, then this stupid public would be more apt to buying MS tablets and phones. It is as simple as this. MS is leveraging its position in the desktop to push its products in other markets.

    Of course, we strongly disagree on the utility of Metro. But even this is not my major problem. I disagree with the whole notion of "touch first". The moment one begins designing programs and screens for "touch first", then one needs to dumb down the desktop since all elements have to become bigger in order to be touched. This is clearly exemplified by the dumbed down screens of Win8 developers preview. So, it is not just metro, it is the whole idea of "touch first" and what this means to data and command presentation.

    Also, please stop deluding yourself that those who are opposed to Metro are simply resistant to change. This is not so.
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  10. #20


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    I too see the ribbon UI seems not so good. I am strongly defending my view that "fullscreen" Metro apps just ruin the way multitasking used to work for us. I am not a fan of iPhones cause I just can't multitask there like on Windows.

    @ ADRz, if your suspicion is true that MS is trying to push users to use their tablets and phones, maybe they are still confident enough that Windows 7 will continue to dominate the Desktop and laptop worlds for years to come. However, we believe this isn't the right thing for them to do. Doubts about this Metro thing alone can significantly affects user interest on Windows 8.


    The desktop can be developed further. You know, I had this little imagination of floating windows of opened programs that float on the desktop that when clicked or touched or touched on a touchscreen monitor spans near you.

    Why don't they just make a separate button on the taskbar that takes you to the Metro instead of combining the Metro with the Start Menu? I think I've seen something like this on an Android.
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Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC
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