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The Surface RT is simply a very bad product

  1. #1


    Bay Area
    Posts : 21,837
    Windows 7 Home Premium x64

    The Surface RT is simply a very bad product


    Early this year, I decided to take a risk.

    As a geek, I like to reward those in the industry that try to be bold. That try to be different. That try to leave the beaten path. That look at the norm in the market, and decide to ignore it. Despite all its flaws, Microsoft did just that with its Metro user interface, incarnations of which are used on both Windows Phone and Windows 8.

    I was a Windows Phone user since day one. I bought an HTC HD7 somewhere around release day, and imported it into The Netherlands, a year before the platform became available in The Netherlands. I wanted to reward Microsoft's mobile team for trying to be different, for being original, for not copying iOS and Android and instead coming up with something fresh and unique. Despite all the limitations and early adopter issues, I loved it.
    Source

    A Guy

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  2. #2


    I had the Surface RT the month it came out. If I known the differences between it and the pro, I would have gotten the pro version instead. Now with the Surface 2 coming out this November, I think I'll be skipping the RT entirely and looking at the pro version. I had the opportunity to get a sweet deal on the Surface Pro 2 at the MVP summit this year as well, but, unfortunately I am unable to go yet again.
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  3. #3


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    That's funny, my wife and I both have a Surface RT and we've not experienced these issues at all. Perhaps he is stuck in a time warp of October 2012 when the RT was released and had performance problems. There have been many firmware updates since then that have improved performance and 8.1 has as well. All the Xbox Live games play smoothly with no issues and app switching is very quick. The only agreement I have is that app development is still slow, but for my needs of a consumption device I have all the apps I need. The smart thing for this geek boy to have done was exchange the device if it had that many issues.
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  4. #4


    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post
    That's funny, my wife and I both have a Surface RT and we've not experienced these issues at all. Perhaps he is stuck in a time warp of October 2012 when the RT was released and had performance problems. There have been many firmware updates since then that have improved performance and 8.1 has as well. All the Xbox Live games play smoothly with no issues and app switching is very quick. The only agreement I have is that app development is still slow, but for my needs of a consumption device I have all the apps I need. The smart thing for this geek boy to have done was exchange the device if it had that many issues.
    There is actually nothing wrong with the surface RT. I'm just a bit peeved that I bought it at it's highest price before the big pricedrop for RT, and before the Pro even came out, because the Pro has everything I want in a device like the Surface.

    I still use my RT everyday... Literally. But the fact still remains that I get reminded of it's limitations everyday that I use it as well.

    1. It's ARM, there's not much developed for ARM, and the only things I can really use are the Windows Store apps. Granted, the store is getting better! More apps, and quality ones at that.
    2. Due to the minimum signing level, I would have to hack the Surface kernel, and circumvent that whole ordeal, including patch guard, and have an ARM executable, to run anything of my own on the desktop side. This really sucks. I did not even know this before I bought the RT, so it was a wakeup call when I first found out.
    3. It's still bloated. Some of the executables that Microsoft provides for you on the Surface RT, by factory default, are unusable anyways. Why? I don't know... It probably has to do with neglect to include them in the list of allowable programs that can run on the RT, unless these were accidentally ported over as non-ARM binaries, I haven't tested, but I still doubt that. I have a bit more faith in Microsoft than that lol; I don't think they would make such a mistake, hopefully. Too lazy to test though.

    Regardless, that RT version of Windows is really nearly just a direct ported version of the original Windows, and things like that prove it.

    I bought the RT to support Microsoft of course , but also to test and develop Windows Store apps. I haven't found much time to get to making them though. I wanted a Windows Phone to fool around with as well. But the other side of that is I wanted to see what ARM development was like. I can't really do that because programs on the RT are blocked anyways, unless I spend time basically hacking my own Surface, which is silly.

    That's my two cents. The Pro allows you to run programs of your own on the desktop side, I don't see why they can't allow this for the RT.
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  5. #5


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Quote Originally Posted by AceInfinity View Post
    There is actually nothing wrong with the surface RT. I'm just a bit peeved that I bought it at it's highest price before the big pricedrop for RT, and before the Pro even came out, because the Pro has everything I want in a device like the Surface.

    I still use my RT everyday... Literally. But the fact still remains that I get reminded of it's limitations everyday that I use it as well.
    How is the fact that you can't install desktop applications a limitation when it is part of it's design? The issue you have isn't the "limitation" it's that you bought the wrong device. They announced the Pro at the same time as RT, if you needed desktop applications then you should have waited for the Pro. It's obvious that the desktop on RT only exists to run Office, when MS releases the version of Office for Modern UI next year they will remove the desktop from RT altogether and it will be a Modern UI tablet only. This also ties into Windows Phone and Windows RT becoming one and sharing the same store and apps.
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  6. #6


    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AceInfinity View Post
    There is actually nothing wrong with the surface RT. I'm just a bit peeved that I bought it at it's highest price before the big pricedrop for RT, and before the Pro even came out, because the Pro has everything I want in a device like the Surface.

    I still use my RT everyday... Literally. But the fact still remains that I get reminded of it's limitations everyday that I use it as well.
    How is the fact that you can't install desktop applications a limitation when it is part of it's design? The issue you have isn't the "limitation" it's that you bought the wrong device. They announced the Pro at the same time as RT, if you needed desktop applications then you should have waited for the Pro. It's obvious that the desktop on RT only exists to run Office, when MS releases the version of Office for Modern UI next year they will remove the desktop from RT altogether and it will be a Modern UI tablet only. This also ties into Windows Phone and Windows RT becoming one and sharing the same store and apps.
    Microsoft starts de-emphasizing the Desktop with Surface 2

    A number of us who've been using the ARM-based version of Microsoft's Surface (and the underlying Windows RT operating system) have been wondering how long it might take Microsoft to remove the Desktop completely from the platform.
    Microsoft starts de-emphasizing the Desktop with Surface 2 | ZDNet
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  7. #7


    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AceInfinity View Post
    There is actually nothing wrong with the surface RT. I'm just a bit peeved that I bought it at it's highest price before the big pricedrop for RT, and before the Pro even came out, because the Pro has everything I want in a device like the Surface.

    I still use my RT everyday... Literally. But the fact still remains that I get reminded of it's limitations everyday that I use it as well.
    How is the fact that you can't install desktop applications a limitation when it is part of it's design? The issue you have isn't the "limitation" it's that you bought the wrong device. They announced the Pro at the same time as RT, if you needed desktop applications then you should have waited for the Pro. It's obvious that the desktop on RT only exists to run Office, when MS releases the version of Office for Modern UI next year they will remove the desktop from RT altogether and it will be a Modern UI tablet only. This also ties into Windows Phone and Windows RT becoming one and sharing the same store and apps.
    Design plays no bearing on the concept of limitations. I'm not sure how you figure that is so with all respect.

    If I designed a program in which modifies an image, and I remove functionality to change the contrast properties for an image, would that not be both, part of design, and a limitation?

    Not being able to even run my own ARM based binaries, is definitely a limitation of the device. It is a tablet, granted, but if that's the way it's intended to be used, why in the world do they keep the desktop and provide for you, around 6 or more apps that you CAN use on the desktop side? Very contradicting to the idea of a tablet "design."

    it's that you bought the wrong device.
    Supposedly. But I was under the assumption that it was to be like the rest of the non-limited tablets based on the ARM processor as well, and to my unknowing, it wasn't the case. Thus, that "mistake" if you call it that, doesn't fall on my shoulders for something I was unaware of. I couldn't buy the Pro, because it wasn't even released at the time.

    They announced the Pro at the same time as RT
    VERY important keyword here... "Announced." If you do some research, you will find out quickly that the Pro version was not released until a few months after the RT was already being sold to consumers. I would know this very well.

    if you needed desktop applications then you should have waited for the Pro.
    Irrelevant, recall what I said. I wanted to learn more about the ARM architecture and develop for it on the desktop side.

    It's obvious that the desktop on RT only exists to run Office
    And for the filesystem, and other accessory applications like notepad, including the control panel and a few others.

    when MS releases the version of Office for Modern UI next year they will remove the desktop from RT altogether and it will be a Modern UI tablet only.
    I've heard from Microsoft employees that this would take a complete Windows source code revamp. Hence why they kept it. But in Windows 8.1, they released another ARM program, Outlook, which was demanded by users.

    I haven't heard word on the desktop's fate for RT, but there are lots out there who think that RT is already dead. Pro is the surviving replacement. It's all speculation, so I take it with a grain of salt, but I can see this as truth, until the Windows store itself grows a bit more.

    I don't believe that they will have the desktop removed anytime soon. While they have it available though, I don't see the harm in allowing people to fool around on the desktop side, so in essence, you are limited to the modern UI interface.

    Unless they really dig out the guns for RT, I can't see them making it a true 100% all-tablet device anytime soon with the rest of what is being focused on at this point in time for Microsoft.

    This also ties into Windows Phone and Windows RT becoming one and sharing the same store and apps.
    It's not quite the same yet however. And for this to happen with success, I would assume the hardware would likely have to match, or be similar in comparison.
    Last edited by AceInfinity; 25 Oct 2013 at 21:55.
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  8. #8


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    The name says it all - RT (Retired) !! maybe it should have been called Surface RIP. There's no way this product can fit into the current line up of Ms's hardware - especially now they have bought out the Nokia Lumia phones (BTW excellent phones too -- although I have a Samsung - I might get one of these as a second phone).

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  9. #9


    Posts : 902
    Win8.1 Pro, Desktop Mode


    [QUOTE=labeeman;297926]
    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post

    Microsoft starts de-emphasizing the Desktop with Surface 2

    I'm shocked....
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  10. #10


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    [QUOTE=Rickkins;298111]
    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post

    Microsoft starts de-emphasizing the Desktop with Surface 2

    I'm shocked....
    It's much harder to spill a cup of coffee over a small mobile device than a laptop keyboard etc !!!!.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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The Surface RT is simply a very bad product
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