Surface 2: Everything that's wrong with Microsoft's model

Microsoft on Sept. 23 will launch its Surface 2 and Surface 2 Pro devices---known around here as YAFS (yet another financial sinkhole)---and we're likely to see a refresh and some modest improvements. Let's give Microsoft props for its persistence, but the company's latest devices and services business model are a case of skating to the puck where it used to be and not where it's going.
Surface 2: Everything that's wrong with Microsoft's model | ZDNet
 
It will be fascinating to see. Apple managed to make it work for quite a while, due to their brilliant product management. MS has not been good at that so far.
 

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I will admit the marketing of Surface Pro has really been lacking,
The really really stupid dance commercials really did not help at all in showing what is fully capable with a surface pro.
Whoever designed those and whoever wrote off on them as a good idea should have been fired. I would have.

The new ones that show with the Ipad are better. But still lacking. they wasted money and time on the rest of the marketing.

Again, the Surface Pro is an excellent tablet, I am sure the Surface Pro 2 will be even better.

People need to get past the BS such as this article and look at what the Surface Pro is really capable of.
The Surface RT, is a different story, but still better than any alternatives out there.
 

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Seems to me that MS made the Surface tablet because none of the Windows OEMs were making a serious tablet, they were all less than acceptable.

The Surface Pro was what the top end advanced users were looking for, this small market lead to a small sales volume, as expected.

The Surface RT was suppose to compete with the other tablets available, due to several factors including since it was a MS product most thought it should run any Windows program and it couldn't, it's sales are less than expected. Having the Office suite should make it more desirable for a section of the market.
This device still gave the OEMs something to aim for, overall the OEM offerings are improving and starting to meet consumer expectations.

The next wave of Windows tablets, 10.6" and 8", with both Win8.1 RT and full Win8.1 versions are much closer to what the consumers want. This level of size, weight, and features was influenced and accelerated by MS building/selling the Surface line of tablets, which was the initial reason for doing this. Sometimes a little guidance helps the market advance.
 

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The next wave of Windows tablets, 10.6" and 8", with both Win8.1 RT and full Win8.1 versions are much closer to what the consumers want.

Oh, I think that very much remains to be seen. I don't see a lot of demand for the expensive pro model. Some demand...?? Certainly. Huge demand..?? Most unlikely.

Imho, of course.
 

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The Real Purpose Of Apps

We think the locus of value is transferring from hardware and software to data. App services should ultimately have the most value because they capture user data.

"When will these loud-mouths learn to keep their mouths shut? They're going to spoil our data-mining gravy train."
:doh:
 

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Microsoft's latest Surface tablets don't dazzle industry..

Computerworld - Microsoft's second-generation Surface tablets didn't dazzle analysts on Monday, even with improved processor speeds, better cameras and longer battery life.

Both the new Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2 will be available on Oct. 22, with the Surface 2 starting at $449 and the Surface Pro 2 starting at $899.
Analysts said Microsoft still must wrestle with tricky issues such as a small installed base for Windows tablets, too few apps for Windows RT and overall prices that are too high compared to many Android tablets, even though Microsoft kicked in freebies such as Skype and cloud storage.
Microsoft's latest Surface tablets don't dazzle industry analysts - Computerworld
 

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LOL.


We think the locus of value is transferring from hardware and software to data. App services should ultimately have the most value because they capture user data.

"When will these loud-mouths learn to keep their mouths shut? They're going to spoil our data-mining gravy train."
:doh:
 

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The next wave of Windows tablets, 10.6" and 8", with both Win8.1 RT and full Win8.1 versions are much closer to what the consumers want.

Oh, I think that very much remains to be seen. I don't see a lot of demand for the expensive pro model. Some demand...?? Certainly. Huge demand..?? Most unlikely.

Imho, of course.

OEMs are coming out with 8" and 10.x" Pro devices, running Win8.1, starting at $300. At this price they will have a BayTrail CPU, but may be enough power for most people. Those that require more power can get the more expensive Haswell versions.

So far it appears, won't know for sure until they are released, that the OEMs are providing devices at many more price points and spec levels, which is what the market wants.
 

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Surface Pro 2= Unsinkable 2 (boat) ???
 

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[h=1]Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die[/h]
If you're looking for evidence why Windows RT won't be around for the long haul, just take a look at Microsoft's new Surface 2 tablet. It highlights everything wrong with RT, and points the way towards the operating system's eventual demise.

The Windows RT-based Surface 2 offers modest improvements over the original Surface, including a Tegra 4 1.7 gigahertz quad-core ARM chip that Microsoft says makes it 60% faster than the Surface RT's processor. There's also an improved screen, Dolby Digital sound, better cameras, and a better kickstand.
That's well and good. But the Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications, because it's based on Windows RT, not Windows 8.1. So Surface 2 owners are limited to Microsoft's still-limited Windows 8 and Windows RT app ecosystm.
Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die | Computerworld Blogs
 

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Honestly, I don't see anything special about Surface 2 or the whole Microsoft Surface idea in general. I mean why would you want to use the Windows desktop with your fingers? All of the buttons are small, the touch keyboard covers almost the whole screen. If touch is the future, then why continue to offer these keyboard accessories? If you want portability, you can buy thin laptops that barely weigh anything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

I mean for example if you compare the MacBook Air with Surface, the main difference is the price and the OS. If OEMs were smart enough to create thin laptops like the MacBook Air at a cheaper price, then what would be the point of a Windows tablet?
 

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If touch is the future, then why continue to offer these keyboard accessories? If you want portability, you can buy thin laptops that barely weigh anything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

You and a lot of M$ customers are not seeing it either. If touch is all that good then why a keyboard?
 

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If touch is the future, then why continue to offer these keyboard accessories? If you want portability, you can buy thin laptops that barely weigh anything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

You and a lot of M$ customers are not seeing it either. If touch is all that good then why a keyboard?

I'm not really a Microsoft customer lol. I own a Mac, iPhone, and a PC laptop. Its a general question. Like in other words, why does a tablet need a physical keyboard? Shouldn't the touch keyboard be superior? What I don't like is this hybrid idea. Its either one or the other. If you really need the keyboard accessory (the keyboard cover or whatever you want to call it) for the Surface, then it shouldn't be called a tablet. I think tabtops sounds like an appropriate name for those types of computers. Idk but I'm not interested in Microsoft Surface and probably never will be.
 

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Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die


If you're looking for evidence why Windows RT won't be around for the long haul, just take a look at Microsoft's new Surface 2 tablet. It highlights everything wrong with RT, and points the way towards the operating system's eventual demise.

The Windows RT-based Surface 2 offers modest improvements over the original Surface, including a Tegra 4 1.7 gigahertz quad-core ARM chip that Microsoft says makes it 60% faster than the Surface RT's processor. There's also an improved screen, Dolby Digital sound, better cameras, and a better kickstand.
That's well and good. But the Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications, because it's based on Windows RT, not Windows 8.1. So Surface 2 owners are limited to Microsoft's still-limited Windows 8 and Windows RT app ecosystm.
Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die | Computerworld Blogs

Wow.. just.. wow.. Some "journalists" don't seem to quite understand things. To claim that the "Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications" is ridiculous. Of course it can't, because it's a freaking ARM processor. It's not like Microsoft is artificially limiting the surface from running Windows desktop apps, they physically cannot run because they use a different instruction set.

If it could run desktop apps, by definition it then would not be an RT device.

It's like writing an article complaining that "the Amtrak train is still stuck operating on rails, and cannot drive around freely", and thus it is doomed to failure. Duh! If it could drive around freely, it wouldn't be a train... geez... The mere act of it running on rails makes it a train. So you're complaining about something being exactly what it's designed to be, and that it's not something else... that's just ridiculously silly.

The author still conveniently forgets that there are many people that just don't need to run desktop apps other than Office. All they need to do can be done with Office, a web browser, and the Windows 8.x Modern apps. These are the same people that buy iPads and Android tablets. They aren't running desktop apps on those either, yet somehow they manage to work just fine for them.

Some people have to stop looking at the Surface (not Surface Pro) through the eyes of a laptop user.
 

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You have pulled part of a paragraph completely out of context. What the author says makes sense.
 

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From the above linked article:
Windows RT was originally developed at least in part so that tablets based on it would have greater battery life than full-blown Windows 8 tablets. But the Surface Pro 2 uses Intel's power-sipping Haswell chip, which offers very nice battery life. So that benefit has gone away.

Another part was to compete with non Windows desktop devices, as most current tablets are, it's a different market area that MS wants to be a part of. With new low power CPUs there will be more Windows desktop tablets, which is not ideal for the desktop platform mainly due to the size of the screens but, will be popular mainly for business or advanced users.
IMO, MS wants to develop the RT style OS as this type of device has already been accepted by a large percentage of users, as either their main device or as a supplemental device.
 

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No, what he says doesn't make sense. It might make sense *IF* Microsoft didn't also have the Pro, but if you base it on Windows 8.1 rather than RT, then it's a Pro. The RT is exactly what it is designed to be, which is a lower cost, lower power... MS says you'll get 10 hours of video playback on the Surface 2, which means normal usage would probably be 12-15 hours, maybe longer if you can dim the screen some. The Surface Pro 2 will be lucky to get max 8 hours... which is still pretty good, but nowhere near what an ARM processor will last on a single charge.. why do you think you need the Keyboard cover with an extra battery in it?

His argument is that the Haswell chipset makes ARM irrelevant, and that's simply not the case. He also complains about the app ecosystem, but that's something that takes time and doesn't pop up overnight. Microsoft knows that the Surface is a long term bet, not a short term one.
 

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I will admit the marketing of Surface Pro has really been lacking,
The really really stupid dance commercials really did not help at all in showing what is fully capable with a surface pro.
Whoever designed those and whoever wrote off on them as a good idea should have been fired. I would have.
yes, completely dumb-ass commercials. I went to a movie once and I got to see the "behind the scenes" footage where they explained how skilled the dancers and such were. Didn't sell me whatsoever on the device.

People need to get past the BS such as this article and look at what the Surface Pro is really capable of.
I think many don't want to spend $899 to $1799 on a handheld Windows 8 computer. People who want tablets are perfectly content running phone style apps and spending far, far, far less money.

I'll be honest, I've got a $249 Chromebook and a $1,000 128GB Surface Pro and my Chrombook has gotten way, way, way more use. Is the Chromebook a better device, or better hardware...Hell no. But it totally does what I need it to do.
 

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It makes complete sense.

That's well and good. But the Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications, because it's based on Windows RT, not Windows 8.1. So Surface 2 owners are limited to Microsoft's still-limited Windows 8 and Windows RT app ecosystem....How many people will opt for a Surface 2 over a similarly priced iPad, with the iPad's massive app ecosystem?

Perfectly clear and reasonable.

He also says:

Windows RT was originally developed at least in part so that tablets based on it would have greater battery life than full-blown Windows 8 tablets. But the Surface Pro 2 uses Intel's power-sipping Haswell chip, which offers very nice battery life...eventually, the market will decide about RT, and it will likely go away.

You might not like it, but if you can't understand the article, I can't help you.


No, what he says doesn't make sense. It might make sense *IF* Microsoft didn't also have the Pro, but if you base it on Windows 8.1 rather than RT, then it's a Pro. The RT is exactly what it is designed to be, which is a lower cost, lower power... MS says you'll get 10 hours of video playback on the Surface 2, which means normal usage would probably be 12-15 hours, maybe longer if you can dim the screen some. The Surface Pro 2 will be lucky to get max 8 hours... which is still pretty good, but nowhere near what an ARM processor will last on a single charge.. why do you think you need the Keyboard cover with an extra battery in it?

His argument is that the Haswell chipset makes ARM irrelevant, and that's simply not the case. He also complains about the app ecosystem, but that's something that takes time and doesn't pop up overnight. Microsoft knows that the Surface is a long term bet, not a short term one.

You might think the battery life difference hasn't exactly "gone away", but that is not the same as "not making sense".

He also complains about the app ecosystem, but that's something that takes time and doesn't pop up overnight

He has not refuted that. He is saying people are less likely to buy it because of the poor app selection. Do you think they will buy it in the hope that in a year or two there will be a decent selection? I doubt it.

The article is entirely reasonable.
 

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