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Surface 2: Everything that's wrong with Microsoft's model

  1. #21


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    He has not refuted that. He is saying people are less likely to buy it because of the poor app selection. Do you think they will buy it in the hope that in a year or two there will be a decent selection? I doubt it.
    His entire premise is that RT is dead, and it just doesn't know it yet. You can't acknowledge that an app ecosystem will build over time if you are also predicting there won't be time for that ecosystem to develop.

    Some people won't buy it because of the app selection, some people will be perfectly fine with the apps as they are now.

    After all, you can't buy an iPad or Android device that has a real copy of Office, including a real copy of Outlook. That is a huge selling feature. How many college students (that aren't PC gamers) need anything more than Office, a Browser, and some apps like OneNote/Evernote (or other note apps) (Metro version), SkyDrive, Media Players, etc... Unless their in computer science and need to run a compiler and an IDE.

    Regardless, at least 50% of the people I know never use anything more than a browser and office on a computer.

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  2. #22


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    He has not refuted that. He is saying people are less likely to buy it because of the poor app selection. Do you think they will buy it in the hope that in a year or two there will be a decent selection? I doubt it.
    His entire premise is that RT is dead, and it just doesn't know it yet. You can't acknowledge that an app ecosystem will build over time if you are also predicting there won't be time for that ecosystem to develop.

    Some people won't buy it because of the app selection, some people will be perfectly fine with the apps as they are now.

    After all, you can't buy an iPad or Android device that has a real copy of Office, including a real copy of Outlook. That is a huge selling feature. How many college students (that aren't PC gamers) need anything more than Office, a Browser, and some apps like OneNote/Evernote (or other note apps) (Metro version), SkyDrive, Media Players, etc... Unless their in computer science and need to run a compiler and an IDE.

    Regardless, at least 50% of the people I know never use anything more than a browser and office on a computer.
    Hi there
    It's not whether they want Office or not it's whether the device is SENSIBLE or even practicable to use for office type Apps -- a 10 inch screen might just about cut it -- anything smaller - forget it --and certainly why use OFFICE RT which is bound to be an "Orphaned" version -- the whole RT system IMO won't last very long at all --why should it - there's little appetite for it and if I were a developer I'd certainly rather develop stuff for the "Proper Windows" or for Android.

    Apple is another system completely so I won't involve that issue.

    Cheers
    jimnbo
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  3. #23


    Somewhere in USA
    Posts : 233
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die


    If you're looking for evidence why Windows RT won't be around for the long haul, just take a look at Microsoft's new Surface 2 tablet. It highlights everything wrong with RT, and points the way towards the operating system's eventual demise.

    The Windows RT-based Surface 2 offers modest improvements over the original Surface, including a Tegra 4 1.7 gigahertz quad-core ARM chip that Microsoft says makes it 60% faster than the Surface RT's processor. There's also an improved screen, Dolby Digital sound, better cameras, and a better kickstand.
    That's well and good. But the Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications, because it's based on Windows RT, not Windows 8.1. So Surface 2 owners are limited to Microsoft's still-limited Windows 8 and Windows RT app ecosystm.
    Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die | Computerworld Blogs
    Wow.. just.. wow.. Some "journalists" don't seem to quite understand things. To claim that the "Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications" is ridiculous. Of course it can't, because it's a freaking ARM processor. It's not like Microsoft is artificially limiting the surface from running Windows desktop apps, they physically cannot run because they use a different instruction set.

    If it could run desktop apps, by definition it then would not be an RT device.

    It's like writing an article complaining that "the Amtrak train is still stuck operating on rails, and cannot drive around freely", and thus it is doomed to failure. Duh! If it could drive around freely, it wouldn't be a train... geez... The mere act of it running on rails makes it a train. So you're complaining about something being exactly what it's designed to be, and that it's not something else... that's just ridiculously silly.

    The author still conveniently forgets that there are many people that just don't need to run desktop apps other than Office. All they need to do can be done with Office, a web browser, and the Windows 8.x Modern apps. These are the same people that buy iPads and Android tablets. They aren't running desktop apps on those either, yet somehow they manage to work just fine for them.

    Some people have to stop looking at the Surface (not Surface Pro) through the eyes of a laptop user.

    So true. Some people just don't get it. Lucky for them, they have $500, $600, $700 ipads they can buy instead.

    My managers got ipads recently for work. You know what they're doing with them? RDP from their laptop. And when they go to meetings, they're on their laptops. To do what? Look at pdf's and Excel spreadsheets?

    Are most people just clueless?
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  4. #24


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    It's not whether they want Office or not it's whether the device is SENSIBLE or even practicable to use for office type Apps -- a 10 inch screen might just about cut it -- anything smaller - forget it
    The surface is 10.6", and it has a DisplayPort so you can hook it up to an external monitor if you want. Thus it becomes an extremely portable device that you can use like a desktop, or use like a tablet, or use like a netbook. You keep forgetting, the argument here is not whether or not a tablet is useful, it's whether or not the RT is. The public has spoken, tablets are in high demand. Many people use Pages on an iPad, or OpenOffice on an Android Tablet.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    and certainly why use OFFICE RT which is bound to be an "Orphaned" version -- the whole RT system IMO won't last very long at all --why should it - there's little appetite for it and if I were a developer I'd certainly rather develop stuff for the "Proper Windows" or for Android.
    And my opinion is that RT will be around for a long time to come. Microsoft is no stranger to this. Windows NT took almost 10 years to become commercially successful. The Xbox took 5 or 6 years. The Zune was around for a long time, only to be replaced by the Windows Phone 7. Just because a product is not a big seller doesn't mean Microsoft will drop it, because invariably it will lead to another product.
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  5. #25


    Posts : 86
    Windows 8.1 Pro & OS X Mavericks


    Windows RT will most likely phase out if you think about it. I'm not sure why people say it will stay. It really has no future and Microsoft knows that mistake. Microsoft is currently trying to get people to use Windows Phone OS. Obviously they also want developers to create applications to attract mobile users and eat Android's and iOS market share. If Microsoft is smart enough, which most likely is in the works, they would port Windows Phone OS onto Microsoft Surface and kill Windows RT. That way, developing Windows Phone applications would be universal since both smartphones and tablets would seamlessly share the same OS. They just need to resize the app to take advantage of a bigger screen.

    Of course it can also be the other way around. Windows RT will take over Windows Phone OS and both smartphones and tablets will run Windows RT.

    But as you can see, having both makes no sense no matter how you look at it. The right move in my opinion would be to have a version of Surface to run Windows Phone OS. Then you stimulate development for just one mobile platform, not two. What was Microsoft thinking lol.
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  6. #26


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    After all, you can't buy an iPad or Android device that has a real copy of Office, including a real copy of Outlook. That is a huge selling feature.
    Is it? The original Surface RT tablet thing had Office and didn't sell very well.

    Perhaps MS is prepared to struggle on with it in the hope things will gradually pick up.

    Not a very enticing prospect for the oems, though. They might have a punt on a few devices , given the expected advertising backup, the prospect of being included in the Best Buy Section, etc. However, I don't think they will bet the farm on it.
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  7. #27


    Posts : 103
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)


    I don't think RT is going anywhere. It's just the beginning for it. Saying "it has no future and Microsoft knows that mistake" has no basis in reality, given that they literally just announced a new RT tablet.

    I think one of their biggest issues is marketing and branding. A lot of people are still confused over what RT actually is. Also, a lot of people are looking at the Surface Pro and thinking that it's just like an iPad, yet way more expensive, when it's actually more like an Ultrabook with a removable keyboard and it compares very favourably to those devices on price. The names "Windows", "Surface" and "Xbox" are great, but they need to make it more clear what these devices are and what category they fall into. Even if you take the name "Xbox", they should have used that as their term for "gaming". That's what people associate it with, yet they launched "Xbox Music" which has nothing to do with gaming at all.

    I think their other issue is that they're still slow to roll out updates and improvements to existing devices. They were late to the market with Windows Phone. They were late to the market with Surface. If I was in charge of Windows Phone, I'd have said "what are the top 100 apps on iPhone and Android?" and I'd have thrown money at devs to make sure they were there from the beginning. People don't care if a platform has 500,000 apps. They care if the popular apps that they want to use are there.

    But yeah, I think RT itself is fine. It has a lot of apps (but again, there are some notable omissions that need sorting out). It's fast and reliable. It's nice to use on a tablet. It offers more functionality than an iPad, while still being simple to use. It's not the core platform that's at fault IMO.
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  8. #28


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    I think one of their biggest issues is marketing and branding
    Yes, that is one of the issues. I don't know why MS thought they could pitch up against against a premium branded product. It doesn't just happen, you have create that brand image.
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  9. #29


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    It's not whether they want Office or not it's whether the device is SENSIBLE or even practicable to use for office type Apps -- a 10 inch screen might just about cut it
    I know a few post grad foreign students. (It costs them a fortune in fess and accommodation). They all use laptops for their university work. They have phones and the odd ipad as well for consumption purposes. They might not be keen on trying to do their University stuff on a ten incher.
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  10. #30


    Posts : 2
    Win 7 pro/ win 8


    Has anyone taken it for a test drive? If not give it a chance.
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Surface 2: Everything that's wrong with Microsoft's model
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