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Surface 2: Everything that's wrong with Microsoft's model

  1. #11


    Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die

    If you're looking for evidence why Windows RT won't be around for the long haul, just take a look at Microsoft's new Surface 2 tablet. It highlights everything wrong with RT, and points the way towards the operating system's eventual demise.

    The Windows RT-based Surface 2 offers modest improvements over the original Surface, including a Tegra 4 1.7 gigahertz quad-core ARM chip that Microsoft says makes it 60% faster than the Surface RT's processor. There's also an improved screen, Dolby Digital sound, better cameras, and a better kickstand.
    That's well and good. But the Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications, because it's based on Windows RT, not Windows 8.1. So Surface 2 owners are limited to Microsoft's still-limited Windows 8 and Windows RT app ecosystm.
    Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die | Computerworld Blogs

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  2. #12


    Posts : 86
    Windows 8.1 Pro & OS X Mavericks


    Honestly, I don't see anything special about Surface 2 or the whole Microsoft Surface idea in general. I mean why would you want to use the Windows desktop with your fingers? All of the buttons are small, the touch keyboard covers almost the whole screen. If touch is the future, then why continue to offer these keyboard accessories? If you want portability, you can buy thin laptops that barely weigh anything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

    I mean for example if you compare the MacBook Air with Surface, the main difference is the price and the OS. If OEMs were smart enough to create thin laptops like the MacBook Air at a cheaper price, then what would be the point of a Windows tablet?
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  3. #13


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMasterFX View Post
    If touch is the future, then why continue to offer these keyboard accessories? If you want portability, you can buy thin laptops that barely weigh anything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.
    You and a lot of M$ customers are not seeing it either. If touch is all that good then why a keyboard?
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  4. #14


    Posts : 86
    Windows 8.1 Pro & OS X Mavericks


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMasterFX View Post
    If touch is the future, then why continue to offer these keyboard accessories? If you want portability, you can buy thin laptops that barely weigh anything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.
    You and a lot of M$ customers are not seeing it either. If touch is all that good then why a keyboard?
    I'm not really a Microsoft customer lol. I own a Mac, iPhone, and a PC laptop. Its a general question. Like in other words, why does a tablet need a physical keyboard? Shouldn't the touch keyboard be superior? What I don't like is this hybrid idea. Its either one or the other. If you really need the keyboard accessory (the keyboard cover or whatever you want to call it) for the Surface, then it shouldn't be called a tablet. I think tabtops sounds like an appropriate name for those types of computers. Idk but I'm not interested in Microsoft Surface and probably never will be.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die


    If you're looking for evidence why Windows RT won't be around for the long haul, just take a look at Microsoft's new Surface 2 tablet. It highlights everything wrong with RT, and points the way towards the operating system's eventual demise.

    The Windows RT-based Surface 2 offers modest improvements over the original Surface, including a Tegra 4 1.7 gigahertz quad-core ARM chip that Microsoft says makes it 60% faster than the Surface RT's processor. There's also an improved screen, Dolby Digital sound, better cameras, and a better kickstand.
    That's well and good. But the Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications, because it's based on Windows RT, not Windows 8.1. So Surface 2 owners are limited to Microsoft's still-limited Windows 8 and Windows RT app ecosystm.
    Microsoft's Surface 2 shows why Windows RT will die | Computerworld Blogs
    Wow.. just.. wow.. Some "journalists" don't seem to quite understand things. To claim that the "Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications" is ridiculous. Of course it can't, because it's a freaking ARM processor. It's not like Microsoft is artificially limiting the surface from running Windows desktop apps, they physically cannot run because they use a different instruction set.

    If it could run desktop apps, by definition it then would not be an RT device.

    It's like writing an article complaining that "the Amtrak train is still stuck operating on rails, and cannot drive around freely", and thus it is doomed to failure. Duh! If it could drive around freely, it wouldn't be a train... geez... The mere act of it running on rails makes it a train. So you're complaining about something being exactly what it's designed to be, and that it's not something else... that's just ridiculously silly.

    The author still conveniently forgets that there are many people that just don't need to run desktop apps other than Office. All they need to do can be done with Office, a web browser, and the Windows 8.x Modern apps. These are the same people that buy iPads and Android tablets. They aren't running desktop apps on those either, yet somehow they manage to work just fine for them.

    Some people have to stop looking at the Surface (not Surface Pro) through the eyes of a laptop user.
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  6. #16


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    You have pulled part of a paragraph completely out of context. What the author says makes sense.
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  7. #17


    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64


    From the above linked article:
    Windows RT was originally developed at least in part so that tablets based on it would have greater battery life than full-blown Windows 8 tablets. But the Surface Pro 2 uses Intel's power-sipping Haswell chip, which offers very nice battery life. So that benefit has gone away.
    Another part was to compete with non Windows desktop devices, as most current tablets are, it's a different market area that MS wants to be a part of. With new low power CPUs there will be more Windows desktop tablets, which is not ideal for the desktop platform mainly due to the size of the screens but, will be popular mainly for business or advanced users.
    IMO, MS wants to develop the RT style OS as this type of device has already been accepted by a large percentage of users, as either their main device or as a supplemental device.
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  8. #18


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    No, what he says doesn't make sense. It might make sense *IF* Microsoft didn't also have the Pro, but if you base it on Windows 8.1 rather than RT, then it's a Pro. The RT is exactly what it is designed to be, which is a lower cost, lower power... MS says you'll get 10 hours of video playback on the Surface 2, which means normal usage would probably be 12-15 hours, maybe longer if you can dim the screen some. The Surface Pro 2 will be lucky to get max 8 hours... which is still pretty good, but nowhere near what an ARM processor will last on a single charge.. why do you think you need the Keyboard cover with an extra battery in it?

    His argument is that the Haswell chipset makes ARM irrelevant, and that's simply not the case. He also complains about the app ecosystem, but that's something that takes time and doesn't pop up overnight. Microsoft knows that the Surface is a long term bet, not a short term one.
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  9. #19


    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
    I will admit the marketing of Surface Pro has really been lacking,
    The really really stupid dance commercials really did not help at all in showing what is fully capable with a surface pro.
    Whoever designed those and whoever wrote off on them as a good idea should have been fired. I would have.
    yes, completely dumb-ass commercials. I went to a movie once and I got to see the "behind the scenes" footage where they explained how skilled the dancers and such were. Didn't sell me whatsoever on the device.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
    People need to get past the BS such as this article and look at what the Surface Pro is really capable of.
    I think many don't want to spend $899 to $1799 on a handheld Windows 8 computer. People who want tablets are perfectly content running phone style apps and spending far, far, far less money.

    I'll be honest, I've got a $249 Chromebook and a $1,000 128GB Surface Pro and my Chrombook has gotten way, way, way more use. Is the Chromebook a better device, or better hardware...Hell no. But it totally does what I need it to do.
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  10. #20


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    It makes complete sense.

    That's well and good. But the Surface 2 is still stuck not being able to run Desktop applications, because it's based on Windows RT, not Windows 8.1. So Surface 2 owners are limited to Microsoft's still-limited Windows 8 and Windows RT app ecosystem....How many people will opt for a Surface 2 over a similarly priced iPad, with the iPad's massive app ecosystem?
    Perfectly clear and reasonable.

    He also says:

    Windows RT was originally developed at least in part so that tablets based on it would have greater battery life than full-blown Windows 8 tablets. But the Surface Pro 2 uses Intel's power-sipping Haswell chip, which offers very nice battery life...eventually, the market will decide about RT, and it will likely go away.
    You might not like it, but if you can't understand the article, I can't help you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    No, what he says doesn't make sense. It might make sense *IF* Microsoft didn't also have the Pro, but if you base it on Windows 8.1 rather than RT, then it's a Pro. The RT is exactly what it is designed to be, which is a lower cost, lower power... MS says you'll get 10 hours of video playback on the Surface 2, which means normal usage would probably be 12-15 hours, maybe longer if you can dim the screen some. The Surface Pro 2 will be lucky to get max 8 hours... which is still pretty good, but nowhere near what an ARM processor will last on a single charge.. why do you think you need the Keyboard cover with an extra battery in it?

    His argument is that the Haswell chipset makes ARM irrelevant, and that's simply not the case. He also complains about the app ecosystem, but that's something that takes time and doesn't pop up overnight. Microsoft knows that the Surface is a long term bet, not a short term one.
    You might think the battery life difference hasn't exactly "gone away", but that is not the same as "not making sense".

    He also complains about the app ecosystem, but that's something that takes time and doesn't pop up overnight
    He has not refuted that. He is saying people are less likely to buy it because of the poor app selection. Do you think they will buy it in the hope that in a year or two there will be a decent selection? I doubt it.

    The article is entirely reasonable.
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Surface 2: Everything that's wrong with Microsoft's model
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