Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Please, let Windows XP die with dignity

  1. #11

    Posts : 473
    Windows 8 Pro

    I first read the one by Ed Bott's colleague, David Gewirtzwho sees it with a different perspective. After thinking about it, I somewhat agreed withhim (Gewirtz). Now after reading what Bott had to say about it, he makes a lotof sense, too. So quite honestly, I don't know how I feel about it. Microsofthas the perfect right to discontinue support. On the other hand, would it be intheir best interest if they did. It's anyone's guess which way it will go, butI think that MS will do as they said they would.

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  2. #12

    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
    Just another display of hubris, as well as unbridled greed on ms's part.
    Seriously? You expect MS to continue to support a product that's 12 years old? At what point is it Ok for MS to stop? Ever?

    That would mean products would have to cost 10x what they do now, because you have to build in support for all eternity. You have to keep releasing security patches, you have to keep doing testing, you have to keep maintaining code very time a new CPU is released or a new chipset... Enough is enough already. Even General Motors is not required to make parts for their cars for more than 7 years.
    The irony is that this would be a perfect excuse to suck people into using a subscription model.
    "If you want to keep using XP, pays for our XP update service."

    There are supposedly 500 million PCs running XP.
    They could charge $10/month (for example) for the update service.
    There could be an additional charge/subscription fee for actual support.

    Businesses would just claim the cost on their tax bills anyway.
    I suspect that the ones still using XP, would rather pay $10/month, than install a new OS, hardware and retrain their staff (with the associated costs).

    If only 100 million PCs were signed up, that would still generate $1B/month.
    You can't expect me to believe that MS spends $1B/month on patches for XP.

    It would also acclimatise users to the idea of subscription software (necessary for the coming "Cloud" operating systems).

    The car analogy fails because car parts are physical items.
    They have to be built and stored.
    That requires presses, dies, molds, factories and warehouses (millions of dollars).

    Actually it won't be long before I would expect GM to provide "eternal support", given the developments in 3D printing.
    All parts would exist as data and could be easily created on demand.

    Software support (patches) require existing PCs and HDD storage (a few thousand dollars).
    To put it another way, MS already has PCs, Servers and huge numbers of HDDs, that they are using for Vista, W7, 2K8, W8, 2K12, Office, etc. patches.

    They can't afford to buy a hundred 4 TB HDDs?
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  3. #13

    Portsmouth Hants
    Posts : 772
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center

    It's not just Microsoft stopping support - it's the whole industry that is moving on.

    As an experiment I started installing Windows 2000, as an unsupported OS, in a VMware Player VM. Installation went without problems, and it was easy to find an unofficial SP5.1 rollup to load many of the updates that were delivered by MS before support finished for W2k. There are still several Microsoft KB fixes for stuff I did not have installed available, but the support for older browsers is missing on those webpages, which just don't function properly.

    IE5 is a really bad experience on today's Internet, and it is even hard to get a workable IE6.0 to download and install, and then the browser experience is little better. Opera had much better support, and a good archive for previous versions, but current versions 12-16 support XP and later. Then there is Adobe Flash, DirectX 9, and all the updates that fix the vulnerabilities in those which have to be sourced. Antiviruses and Antimalware - we cannot expect 3rd party companies to support legacy systems forever, even if we can find ways around support for modern hardware.

    Try to download older stuff using your modern host OS, and the stuff you are after gets filtered out, because it is not for your version of Windows. If you do get something that runs with your browser, the page you want does not want to play with the older stuff.

    Because of the difficulties in finding working versions and plug-ins, and getting them from web-pages that do not function, search engines lead you to sites that may have the stuff you want, but are bristling with BHOs and PUPs, toolbars and adware, and misleading download buttons.

    It will be difficult to stay alive, unless you live in a sandbox.

    So far my W2k is still running, but I dread to think how it will be in a month or so...
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  4. #14

    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    Hi there
    this issue has been done to death

    You can run Windows XP in a Virtual machine until the END OF THE UNIVERSE if you want to - if your hardware runs that long. It's totally safe as well if you don't connect it to the internet too. - I can't see what all the fuss is about.

    Look I'm still running Windows 98 on a Virtual machine !!! - so "Wots prob!"!!.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails w98vm.png  
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  5. #15

    Posts : 473
    Windows 8 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    this issue has been done to death

    I disagree with you, Jimbo. How many people using XP have any knowledge of what a virtual machine actually is-- much less using one? Likewise, of the millions of people using XP, I wonder how many will be using it with an internet connection. Yes I know--they should know better. I'm not suggesting that MS has an obligation to continue with their service, because they do not. But I do not think that this issue has been blown out of proportion. I respect you for the knowledge you seem to have about computers, but not all people using computers have that knowledge.
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  6. #16

    Posts : 149
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64-Bit, Ubuntu 13.04 64-Bit

    I find it odd how people think that Windows XP should just live forever, when the majority of OS in the history of computing have never stuck with a version for longer than about 3 years before upgrading it. Windows XP is over a decade old. It shouldn't live forever, it shouldn't be alive anymore today. It has, at the very least, one very respectable OS release that is way better than it in every single way except for silly luddite reasons where people are unable to handle even the slightest of changes.

    If you're a home user using any machine that has more than one core in a CPU, more than 3-4GB of RAM, and basically all SATA/PCI-E hardware... you have no business holding that machine down with a 12 year old OS that cannot even utilize the modern standards and resources (at least not without third party hacks and bandaids).

    • Windows XP suffers from security problems
    • It suffers from "winrot" in a very terrible way (no XP install really ever lasts more than 6 months without starting to slow down or take longer to boot, etc)
    • It lacks real and/or native support for modern standards such as:
    ♥ Wi-Fi : Vendors have to supply their own drivers, software for there to be a UI or tray icon, with dodgy performance at best.
    ♥ SATA : You have to slipstream drivers in to even install XP on any machine built past around 2005.
    ♥ AHCI : Goodbye modern disk performance and efficiency, especially in SSDs.
    ♥ 64-bit : Aside from some modern production software basically requiring it, you lose out on any RAM installed beyond ~3GB.
    ♥ SSD : Your SSD won't perform long under any moderate to heavy use without TRIM and without manually disabling defrag.
    ♥ DirectX 10/11 : Some of your newer games that support this platforms either won't run or will run in reduced graphics in XP.
    ♥ Laptop Drivers : Many new laptops with Win7/8 won't even have drivers for XP, causing an even more crippled experience.
    ♥ Video Memory Limits : Modern video cards have a lot of RAM built-in nowadays, further reducing your maximum RAM in 32-bit.
    ♥ Poor Audio System : XP does not support per-process Mixer and switching audio inputs/outputs is not as easy to accomplish.
    ♥ Multi-Core CPU : XP has limited support for multicore CPU in consumer use, the system doesn't use these cores efficiently on its own. The first dual core CPU was well after XP's release, after all.
    ♥ USB 3.0 : Got USB 3.0 and you are dumb enough to downgrade to XP? Say goodbye to these ports.

    In any case, to this day there are STILL people who rip Windows 7 off their newer computers and put XP on instead. Why? "Oh because they're used to XP better". That's a really terrible reason to bring down modern hardware to neaderthal standards. Why not just get used to Windows 7 already and save yourself and the rest of the people who have to troubleshoot your problems the grief and misery. I've seen people ask how to get Windows XP to install on CORE i7 8GB RAM gaming machines, and 'they don't care' that only 2GB of their RAM (after factoring in their huge video card) would be usable after doing this... All because they like the way XP looks better. Seriously, using 7 is NOT that steep of a learning curve over XP. Windows 8 isn't even THAT bad once you get used to it.
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  7. #17

    ^ That just about covers it.
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  8. #18

    Portsmouth Hants
    Posts : 772
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center

    There's only one question that bothers me for XP users, and for users of Windows versions that follow, that might need to reactivate their installations after the end of support, will that still be available, or will people be stuffed?
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  9. #19

    Toronto, Canada. Born in the U.K.
    Posts : 691
    Win 10 Pro + Win 7 Ult SP1 (x64)

    I doubt phone activation will be available but you should be able to auto-activate. No updates will be forthcoming though. It isn't recommended for your own security.
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  10. #20

    Just thought of another complication with keeping an old OS "alive", how many languages the support has to be in ? It would have to be a huge machinery to support all this, better used somewhere else.
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Please, let Windows XP die with dignity
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