Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


8.1 Evaluation from Windows Secrets Newsletter

  1. #41


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    I'd imagine that any corporate users would enable W8.1 boot straight to desktop so it looks more like traditional windows. They'd probably have the typical applications pinned to desktop and taskbar so you'd never have to see the metro screen -- If people at work for example couldn't have several EXCEL spread sheets open at once or other concurrent windows open at the same time and have to work entirely in full screen I'm sure there would be a "Shop Stewards" meeting in about 2 seconds flat.

    I'm not sure in any case whether the corporate take up of W8/W8.1 will be that large anyway -- what appears to be happening as far as Windows 8/8.1 is concerned is that they are looking at ways to support this on BYOD computers. You would then log on to corporate VPN's / networks either directly or via some sort of Virtual machine software such as VMware player.

    Cheers
    jimbo

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  2. #42


    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post
    There is nothing logical about the new windows. I am still speaking about a specific radical change that was forced upon the install base within the common GUI, otherwise known as the start screen. It sucks on a desktop. Sometimes I just want to look at a short list of apps and choose or find a function in the same place it has been all along up to now. I would have met at least one single person within the IT field that I work in who thought as much. This has yet to happen for me, and it has been over a year. The only people I know of who actually like it, exist in this forum. I am 80% sure at least some of them work for Microsoft.
    "There is nothing logical about the new windows. I am still speaking about a specific radical change that was forced upon the install base within the common GUI"

    Do you really think, as a self professed expert, that it was forced on you_ The legacy desktop was there staring at you, much like previous "built in" programs, it was a free offer, you were not compelled, in any way, to use it.

    "otherwise known as the start screen. It sucks on a desktop. Sometimes I just want to look at a short list of apps and choose or find a function in the same place it has been all along up to now."

    When I first gor my hands on it, I immediately sawt as a graphical start menu. I have customised it, and pushed the lesser used items down into the "all programs" screen. In my method of usage, I find this quicker and neater than ploughing through the old style menus. If anyone tells me they used , on a very regular basis, ALL those available shortcuts in the legacy Start menu, I would challenge them. "Look at a short list". I have narrowed my regulars down to 40 regular programs. These even include "maintenance" programs. One click and I can see all of them.

    "
    would have met at least one single person within the IT field that I work in who thought as much."

    I could introduce you to many.

    " The only people I know of who actually like it, exist in this forum.I am 80% sure at least some of them work for Microsoft"

    Well, not much comment. I am sure you realise the silliness of that comment. And, obviously, with the interchange of info here, which is a dedicated Windows 8 forum, it should be obvious to you that Windows 8 is favoured by the majority. But have a look again, You will find many posts with very adverse criticisms of the OS
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  3. #43


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    I've long since thought that the "Custom toolbar" approach was the way to go I took that approach on W7 too-- my biggest gripe is that once for any reason you get into the Metro type of stuff then navigation can sometimes get a bit convoluted -- I think Ms has got it a bit hosed up mixing Metro and desktop so easily -- there ought from Desktop to be a specific button or something to say Enter Metro mode when you want to operate the computer that way rather than just "casual" navigation.

    Boot to desktop is what should have been there from the start - I think also SEARCH (application) should start also from the desktop rather than from one of the start screens and the SEARCH function should only include the Internet when you are in Metro mode rather than by default as now.

    A lot of the languages are missing too in W8.1 -- the W8 language packs DO NOT WORK in W8.1 and I need to test.
    Office Languages are fine - just the display (windows) aren't available yet for my specific language.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #44


    Posts : 103
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    If for instance my work PC was upgraded to Windows 8, and the corporate IT folks gave us no way to open PDFs other than Metro's Reader app, my job would suddenly get much harder. And I would have no option to dump it, unless I quit my job which would be a bit too extreme!
    Just because Windows 8 has a PDF reader built in that you don't like (I don't like it either), doesn't mean you would be forced to use it at work. It could also apply to any other version of the OS if the IT folks forced you to use some third party PDF reader that you thought was terrible.
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  5. #45


    Posts : 959
    Windows 8.1, 10


    Quote Originally Posted by djsigma View Post
    Just because Windows 8 has a PDF reader built in that you don't like (I don't like it either), doesn't mean you would be forced to use it at work. It could also apply to any other version of the OS if the IT folks forced you to use some third party PDF reader that you thought was terrible.
    Yes but the point is the Reader app itself isn't actually that terrible, the problem is that you can't see it in a window below a spreadsheet or whatever, and that's a design fault in the Operating System, not a fault in the app.

    And the same would apply if Office 2014 or whatever became Metro only, which would be harder to persuade the IT folk to change.
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  6. #46


    Posts : 103
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Yes but the point is the Reader app itself isn't actually that terrible, the problem is that you can't see it in a window below a spreadsheet or whatever, and that's a design fault in the Operating System, not a fault in the app.

    And the same would apply if Office 2014 or whatever became Metro only, which would be harder to persuade the IT folk to change.
    You can open a PDF in Reader and have the app open next to Excel. Even if Office went Metro-only, you could still do that, so entering in data from a PDF to a spreadsheet could still be done.

    I would agree that the Metro environment on a desktop is not ideal for enterprise in its current state, but then any head of IT that chose to use Windows 8.1 should take this into consideration. Personally, I would give people desktop versions of applications to use, because there are good reasons for doing so, the cost and time taken to retrain people being a big one. If Office 2014 was Metro-only, sure, that would be an issue, but it's not going to be.

    Maybe the long term plan is for the desktop to go away, or for it to be something that's optional when you install Windows 11 (or whatever), but I think a lot of people who have grim visions of the future for Windows are imagining that if MS do get rid of the desktop or make it an optional component, that Metro wouldn't have evolved from what it's like today - so it would be like having Windows 8.1 now, but with the desktop completely gone. That would suck, but that's not how it's going to be.

    As it is today, you are not forced to use Metro apps. In Windows 8.1 you can boot to the desktop, you can disable the upper hot corners. You can set the Start button so it will go straight to the All Apps screen, which is just an always-expanded Start menu, therefore you never actually see the tiled Metro screen at all, but if that's not what you want, you can install Classic Shell or Start8 or whatever is your favourite choice of Start menu replacement and the experience is almost identical to using Windows 7. At the office, if you were forced to use Metro apps and that made it more difficult to do your work and it cost the company a bunch of money in retraining, that is the IT department's mistake, not Microsoft's.
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  7. #47


    Posts : 959
    Windows 8.1, 10


    Quote Originally Posted by djsigma View Post
    You can open a PDF in Reader and have the app open next to Excel. Even if Office went Metro-only, you could still do that, so entering in data from a PDF to a spreadsheet could still be done.
    No I need it to be arranged horizontally, with one above the other. Side by side is no good because the data I'm usually dealing with very wide and not very deep.

    (And my current work laptop, which is too recent for them to fork out to get me a new one, has the old-school 1280x800 screen resolution, it doesn't have enough pixels for Windows 8 to Snap side-by-side anyway; I know 8.1 is better but still not sure if it supports Snap on that resolution?)
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  8. #48


    Posts : 103
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by djsigma View Post
    You can open a PDF in Reader and have the app open next to Excel. Even if Office went Metro-only, you could still do that, so entering in data from a PDF to a spreadsheet could still be done.
    No I need it to be arranged horizontally, with one above the other. Side by side is no good because the data I'm usually dealing with very wide and not very deep.

    (And my current work laptop, which is too recent for them to fork out to get me a new one, has the old-school 1280x800 screen resolution, it doesn't have enough pixels for Windows 8 to Snap side-by-side anyway; I know 8.1 is better but still not sure if it supports Snap on that resolution?)
    In that case, no IT guy with any sense would force you to use Metro versions of apps because it makes your job more difficult. Come back to me when they do.

    If I was in charge of IT at your place, I would think....

    1. His laptop hasn't got the resolution to support snapping apps.
    2. He needs to have apps tiled horizontally, due to the way he needs to view information.
    3. He perhaps would need some training on how to use the Metro environment (not saying you do, but I would consider that).
    4. Is the Metro version of any app better than a desktop version, given the above considerations?

    So if, after considering that, I said "here, you're being forced to use Reader to read PDFs now", then I would have made a very poor decision indeed, but that would be 100% my fault, not MS's, given that there are alternatives.
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  9. #49


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Yes but the point is the Reader app itself isn't actually that terrible, the problem is that you can't see it in a window below a spreadsheet or whatever, and that's a design fault in the Operating System, not a fault in the app.
    One can download/install Acrobat Reader or others to use on desktop. Word 2013 has the ability to open, edit, and save PDF files, so no need for a reader if one has it. Video: What

    Admittedly, they have a ways to go yet on Snap, but lets give it time. 8.1 has more options than 8. I'm not that technical to know why snap is vertical with no option of horizontal which makes more sense to me, since most monitors are wider than taller. Here's a capture of Modern/Metro Reader on right and Desktop Excel sheet on left:

    Attachment 28152

    What's weird is if one goes the other way with Reader.

    Attachment 28153

    And the same would apply if Office 2014 or whatever became Metro only, which would be harder to persuade the IT folk to change.
    Lets not get into "What ifs" but rather with "What is".
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  10. #50


    Texas
    Posts : 1,022
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    "That's a large proportion of the Windows 8 hate posse in a nutshell, haha."

    Yes but many of us don't get to choose what OS and software we use on computers at work, and it's for tasks at work that Metro is truly hopeless.

    If for instance my work PC was upgraded to Windows 8, and the corporate IT folks gave us no way to open PDFs other than Metro's Reader app, my job would suddenly get much harder. And I would have no option to dump it, unless I quit my job which would be a bit too extreme!
    Not only the workforce David, but those who just aren't technically savvy. How many senior citizens will receive a new PC or laptop for Christmas this year, turn the dang thing on and then sit there wondering what to do next? The "kid" was nice enough to buy them something they don't understand (and chances are the "kid" is no more savvy about Windows 8 than they are) and can't really use. Most of them will eventually figure things out, but they most likely won't be happy.

    Then there are the folks who, for whatever reason, buy themselves a new computer with Windows 8 on it. As with the seniors and their "kids" above, they're stuck with what they bought because there's nothing else available to them.

    Most of the above folks are not tech savvy enough to install Windows 7 in place of Windows 8, not to mention setting up a dual boot system.

    So, yes, I can see any number of people who have finally learned to "get around" in Windows 8, but who literally hate it yet can't do anything but keep the blasted computer.
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