Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8.1 won't rescue PC market this year, IDC says

  1. #51


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    I have always thought it would be a good idea to create computing devices that have embedded operating systems, embedded high performance graphics and embedded software. No capability to upgrade or repair. Use, or replace. That would eliminate much of the issues with installations. Just use the device that one buys. period. No fiddling.
    Actually, that would be a VERY, VERY BAD idea.
    And one that I would vehemently oppose.
    Wenda.
    Would you be / Are you vehemently opposed to a microwave oven?
    I am hypothetically proposing a computing appliance.
    Are appliances very, very bad ideas?

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  2. #52


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Explorertml View Post
    ...Is it Desktops and Laptop Personal Computing? or Smartphone and Tablets??? please Microsoft let is know so we can prepare in what will be in store for the General and Enterprise Operator/User...
    It is all of the above. All of those devices will have a Microsoft OS on them.
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  3. #53


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Would you be / Are you vehemently opposed to a microwave oven?
    I am hypothetically proposing a computing appliance.
    Are appliances very, very bad ideas?
    How often do you update the software or install new functions in your microwave oven?

    BBCs used to have a lot of their functions on ROM chips.
    Live Linux CDs/DVDs are ROM operating systems.
    ROM operating systems have the advantage that malware can't permanently "take them down".
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  4. #54


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Would you be / Are you vehemently opposed to a microwave oven?
    I am hypothetically proposing a computing appliance.
    Are appliances very, very bad ideas?
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    How often do you update the software or install new functions in your microwave oven?
    It was hypothetical - theoretical. Today's Operating Systems are seriously flawed. The need for constant updates and patches are a major headache. It's almost like a car that endlessly needs to keep going back for recall issues. The technology is simply not there yet. On the other hand, phones don't need to be constantly updated to function properly. Then again, the endless upgrades of devices from version 1 to 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc...,,, is also a major factor. One does not need to upgrade / replace a microwave oven unless it is broken. It is obvious that all computer Operating Systems are flawed.

    My theoretical device would be set in stone, not needing updates. This type of computing technology does not exist. I said "I always thought it would be a good idea" ... just dreaming.

    BBCs used to have a lot of their functions on ROM chips.
    Live Linux CDs/DVDs are ROM operating systems.
    ROM operating systems have the advantage that malware can't permanently "take them down".
    These are good things, right? ROM OS's are a step in the right direction for an appliance device.
    The fact that Windows needs regular security and other updates makes it clear that the OS is like a colander.

    Embedded systems working in industry serve a particular function do the same thing millions of times without updates.
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  5. #55


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    BBCs used to have a lot of their functions on ROM chips.
    Live Linux CDs/DVDs are ROM operating systems.
    ROM operating systems have the advantage that malware can't permanently "take them down".
    These are good things, right? ROM OS's are a step in the right direction for an appliance device.
    The fact that Windows needs regular security and other updates makes it clear that the OS is like a colander.

    Embedded systems working in industry serve a particular function do the same thing millions of times without updates.
    It depends on the usage model.
    ROM operating systems have their place.

    Usually devices with a specific function, or limited set of functions, like a microwave oven or remote control.
    They can really shine in those roles.

    They aren't as useful in a general purpose, multifunction PC.

    IMO, the reason software is so flawed, is that the creators aren't held to the same level of accountability that manufacturers of physical devices are.
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  6. #56


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    You know I was just thinking I should update the firmware on my toaster. It just doesn't toast bagels the way I like them.




















    Just kidding,
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  7. #57


    Posts : 87
    Windows 7 Pro 64


    [QUOTE=mdmd;275232]
    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post

    It was hypothetical - theoretical. Today's Operating Systems are seriously flawed. The need for constant updates and patches are a major headache. It's almost like a car that endlessly needs to keep going back for recall issues. The technology is simply not there yet. On the other hand, phones don't need to be constantly updated to function properly. Then again, the endless upgrades of devices from version 1 to 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc...,,, is also a major factor. One does not need to upgrade / replace a microwave oven unless it is broken. It is obvious that all computer Operating Systems are flawed.

    My theoretical device would be set in stone, not needing updates. This type of computing technology does not exist. I said "I always thought it would be a good idea" ... just dreaming.


    These are good things, right? ROM OS's are a step in the right direction for an appliance device.
    The fact that Windows needs regular security and other updates makes it clear that the OS is like a colander.

    Embedded systems working in industry serve a particular function do the same thing millions of times without updates.
    I think you analogy is flawed. If you compare a PC to a microwave your PC would look like this:
    - you buy a PC to have one single function (i.e. Word)
    - that function would be from the year of purchase (i.e. word 2003) and never be updated (like your microwave has the same function today it had 10 years ago when you bought it)
    - you buy the hardware from the same manufacturer as the software, don't have hardware choice
    - you don't have internet access
    - you can't replace hardware (i.e. you want a new graphics card, more memory, an SSD that didn't exist at time of purchase)
    - if the manufacturer discovers a flaw in their programming, they force you to buy a new PC instead of sending an update
    (i just realized I'm describing a Mac....)

    If you are OK with these limitations, you are right, a ROM OS would be better and never needed updating.

    But people want their microwave be the newest every day (like adding sideway-spinning plate), have it wash the dishes, bake and keep food cool. they also want it to download recipes, and tell you in your workplace how the food is at home. and people want a choice of (cheaper) microwave models because offering more hardware manufacturers reduces prices. People also want to upgrade hardware.

    so unless you really want the PC as limited as your microwave, you will need updates.

    And the argument that cars don't need the updates is even more laughable. Google for the news of recalls and you see that car drivers are beta-testers. and many of the car updates literally are software updates as well. Some of those are not even recalls, they just apply them when you bring them in for service
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  8. #58


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    I think your analogy is flawed.
    These are the dark ages of technology. Infantile technology. The IQ level is in the dullard range. No one made any statements about a single function device except the responders. BTW, Microwave ovens can cook thousands of products. It is not a single function device. You could say a PC is a single function device.
    All it does is process data.

    You are not seeing the advantages. People are having a great deal of trouble using a PC because they do not know what they are doing. It would be a relief to be free of upgrades, replacements, anti virus and malware for the average user who knows nothing about what they are doing.

    And the argument that cars don't need the updates is even more laughable
    Cars are junk. They wear out and die. There is nothing special about the maintenance schedules of automobiles.

    PC's could be marketed like usable devices, ready to go, rather than pathetic tools for geeks to customize.
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  9. #59


    Posts : 87
    Windows 7 Pro 64


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    I think your analogy is flawed.
    These are the dark ages of technology. Infantile technology. The IQ level is in the dullard range. No one made any statements about a single function device except the responders. BTW, Microwave ovens can cook thousands of products. It is not a single function device. You could say a PC is a single function device.
    All it does is process data.

    You are not seeing the advantages. People are having a great deal of trouble using a PC because they do not know what they are doing. It would be a relief to be free of upgrades, replacements, anti virus and malware for the average user who knows nothing about what they are doing.

    And the argument that cars don't need the updates is even more laughable
    Cars are junk. They wear out and die. There is nothing special about the maintenance schedules of automobiles.

    PC's could be marketed like usable devices, ready to go, rather than pathetic tools for geeks to customize.
    PCs are usable devices. At least to the majority of users. Of course, there are always a few who are not up to the task and don't know how to turn on the PC and ask support which key is the "any key" they are asked to push. But I see people on the street every day who should not have a drivers license either.

    There is a simple way for everyday PCs to not have to deal with updates, malware etc.: unplug from the internet, like your microwave. But then you can't spread your wisdom on this forum...
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  10. #60


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    There is a simple way for everyday PCs to not have to deal with updates, malware etc.: unplug from the internet, like your microwave....
    I expect this was humor... unplugging would make it unusable.
    (Since most generic users nowadays are mostly into social media)
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Windows 8.1 won't rescue PC market this year, IDC says
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