Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Goodbye Windows 8, hello Windows 8.1

  1. #11


    I really don't get it...the start button and start shortcut are two totally different things... unless you are a simple minded M$ exec that don't get it... the former implies some sort of logic...I don't see why we have to spell things out as to what the start button represents.. a menu obviously! that's how it's been since Windows 95....

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  2. #12


    I find the new "start button" more an annoyance than anything useful. It's just part of the desktop taskbar now but it was always there in Windows 8 lurking hidden in the lower left corner. It appears MS has added some functionality when you right-click on the start icon but beyond that it's not a very useful thing. Why do I want to launch the start interface from the desktop? If I need to use the default start interface then I'm probably not using the traditional desktop. If I use the traditional desktop then it seems a step backwards to click that Start button to launch something that's probably going to hide my desktop anyway.
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  3. #13


    Quote Originally Posted by acr731 View Post
    Why do these reviewers keep saying "the start button is back" when it isn't?
    Have you seen the ZDnet authors photo? Take a look and you'll understand.
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  4. #14


    Posts : 75
    Windows 8 Consumer Preview


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemix View Post
    Theoretically the 'Start Button' is back but that's not to be confused as saying the 'Start Menu' is back.
    That's exactly right. In fact, the start menu has never been gone either. It's just a full screen start menu now. It's the small, classic start menu that people want back. Personally, I'm not sure why people are so fixated on this, the full screen menu has been working fine for me. In fact, I think it looks a lot better.
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  5. #15


    Quote Originally Posted by Drybonz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemix View Post
    Theoretically the 'Start Button' is back but that's not to be confused as saying the 'Start Menu' is back.
    That's exactly right. In fact, the start menu has never been gone either. It's just a full screen start menu now. It's the small, classic start menu that people want back. Personally, I'm not sure why people are so fixated on this, the full screen menu has been working fine for me. In fact, I think it looks a lot better.
    Ditto....

    It is also faster to access the programs in the new start menu, instead of the old one, where one would need to click at least couple of times and scroll to access the program. In W8 just press the "Windows-key", click on the large program icon, that opens in the desktop. The programs can also be pinned to the taskbar in the desktop, or added to the desktop in itself, that removes the need for opening the start menu. Especially when starting the PC bypasses the start up screen and goes directly to the desktop.

    The new way of accessing the programs has sound logic, does simplifies the process, that may not be suitable everywhere and/or for everyone.

    I agree that it looks a lot better and the more I use 8.1, the more I like it...
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  6. #16


    Posts : 53
    Windows 7/8


    Quote Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drybonz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemix View Post
    Theoretically the 'Start Button' is back but that's not to be confused as saying the 'Start Menu' is back.
    That's exactly right. In fact, the start menu has never been gone either. It's just a full screen start menu now. It's the small, classic start menu that people want back. Personally, I'm not sure why people are so fixated on this, the full screen menu has been working fine for me. In fact, I think it looks a lot better.
    Ditto....

    It is also faster to access the programs in the new start menu, instead of the old one, where one would need to click at least couple of times and scroll to access the program. In W8 just press the "Windows-key", click on the large program icon, that opens in the desktop. The programs can also be pinned to the taskbar in the desktop, or added to the desktop in itself, that removes the need for opening the start menu. Especially when starting the PC bypasses the start up screen and goes directly to the desktop.

    The new way of accessing the programs has sound logic, does simplifies the process, that may not be suitable everywhere and/or for everyone.

    I agree that it looks a lot better and the more I use 8.1, the more I like it...
    This sounds great in theory, but that isn't what is actually going on. When you are in the "start screen" you are actually in the modern UI environment. This is a complete OS environment loaded in memory. It's more than just a screen. According to Microsoft this is the "future". Simplified apps and simplified UI. When you are in Desktop mode you are in the "legacy environment." Again according to Microsoft. For us old folks this would be the "MSDOS Virtual Machine" of the Windows 3.1 days.

    What everyone is up in arms about is the fact that people want desktop applications. We need some applications that can do meaty processing. We want applications that use up every drop of CPU be it graphic design, photos, video editing, audio editing, software development, games, etc. When we are running on a desktop or traditional laptop we don't want to be switching modes/environments. We simply want and need the desktop environment to continue to run the applications we need and enjoy, and indeed show no signs of disappearing anytime in the foreseeable future.

    If the start screen was just a start screen, as the marketing types now try to spin it, I don't think you would have as much push back. Indeed Windows 8.1 "feels" more like this is the case, but it would be interesting to know whether it truly is, or if Windows is running with two environments loaded into memory. Time will tell I suppose.
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  7. #17


    Posts : 132
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC


    The more I use Windows 8, the more I like it. I think my main problem was learning where the stuff I use is hidden on the desktop. I dislike the start up screen because I can't be bothered to learn how to organize it, it seems to have a mind of its own as to how it should be organized, and why would I want to waste my time doing that when I have the desktop organized the way I want?

    Is it worth the bother of installing the 8.1 preview now to have a look at it or just wait for the release?
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  8. #18


    Quote Originally Posted by MrBill View Post
    This sounds great in theory, but that isn't what is actually going on. When you are in the "start screen" you are actually in the modern UI environment. This is a complete OS environment loaded in memory. It's more than just a screen. According to Microsoft this is the "future". Simplified apps and simplified UI. When you are in Desktop mode you are in the "legacy environment." Again according to Microsoft. For us old folks this would be the "MSDOS Virtual Machine" of the Windows 3.1 days.
    As long as the switching between the two GUIs is instantaneous even on my old laptop, I really don't care what is behind it. The benefits outweigh the memory implication, especially nowadays when memory is plenty.
    Calling it "MSDOS Virtual Machine" is a stretch, even if I fondly recall my Windows 3.11 machine...

    What everyone is up in arms about is the fact that people want desktop applications. We need some applications that can do meaty processing. We want applications that use up every drop of CPU be it graphic design, photos, video editing, audio editing, software development, games, etc. When we are running on a desktop or traditional laptop we don't want to be switching modes/environments. We simply want and need the desktop environment to continue to run the applications we need and enjoy, and indeed show no signs of disappearing anytime in the foreseeable future.
    In today's PCs the performance bottleneck is still the HDD and SSD, the latter one helps, but it is still a bottleneck when compared to the CPU and memory subsystem. Just throw in enough memory and your desktop application will be just fine.

    If the start screen was just a start screen, as the marketing types now try to spin it, I don't think you would have as much push back. Indeed Windows 8.1 "feels" more like this is the case, but it would be interesting to know whether it truly is, or if Windows is running with two environments loaded into memory. Time will tell I suppose.
    One can choose to go directly to the desktop at boot time, but I doubt that the start screen isn't loaded.
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  9. #19


    Posts : 53
    Windows 7/8


    Quote Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
    As long as the switching between the two GUIs is instantaneous even on my old laptop, I really don't care what is behind it. The benefits outweigh the memory implication, especially nowadays when memory is plenty.
    Calling it "MSDOS Virtual Machine" is a stretch, even if I fondly recall my Windows 3.11 machine...
    Actually the MSDOS VM isn't really a stretch. They use the same methodology when moving to 32 bit and 64 bit Windows. Those 16 bit apps ran in a 16 bit Windows VM, and same for 32 bit apps in 64 bit Windows. That's why even compatibility mode doesn't work for some Windows apps.

    As for the memory, it does matter to some. I have friends that have video businesses they run on the side of their day jobs. They can eat up an entire 16GB is seconds while editing and start swapping to the HD. Gamers can claim the same with some games. So folks care if there is extra code just dangling out there for no apparent reason.

    Please don't get me wrong, I like the Modern UI, on a tablet. I loved Windows RT, there just weren't any mature apps when compared to their cousins on Android and iOS. That problem hopefully will resolve itself, if the sales ever pick up. My point is there is no reason to have your mobile interface dangling there in your desktop world like an unwanted wart. Honestly, the ideal solution would not be to get rid of it either, the ideal, and what they should have done, is given folks the option to keep it or run with just desktop and unload that tablet interface. They can still easily design that in the future. No eco system changes, Modern UI lives on. As I stated before, if Modern UI can't stand on its own in the mobile world without the desktop, it's dead already.
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  10. #20


    Quote Originally Posted by alkaufmann View Post
    The more I use Windows 8, the more I like it. I think my main problem was learning where the stuff I use is hidden on the desktop. I dislike the start up screen because I can't be bothered to learn how to organize it, it seems to have a mind of its own as to how it should be organized, and why would I want to waste my time doing that when I have the desktop organized the way I want?
    It really isn't much of a bother to customize the start screen or the desktop, certainly, it is different from previous versions of Windows.
    Is it worth the bother of installing the 8.1 preview now to have a look at it or just wait for the release?
    If you have a spare drive, machine, and the time, you should try 8.1.
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Goodbye Windows 8, hello Windows 8.1
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