Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Did we all just witness Windows start to die?

  1. #21


    Posts : 272
    windows 7


    I really don't understand all the hate for windows 8, I've had zero problems running it. I've tried all the start menu replacements and every time I've gone back to using the start screen. Why? Because I find it faster and more efficient...my system flies along and is the best it's ever been.

    I had to use my brothers computer last week to install some things and sort a few problems out that he had. He was running windows 7, and I could not believe how awkward it felt. Everything seemed more hard work to get things done, and file explorer is next to useless... I actually missed the ribbon! lol

    I tried Linux once, and again I found it too much hard work just to be able to get the simplest task done. I very much doubt the masses would convert to it, not unless they make things easier.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #22


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    The main problem with Windows 8 is that it's just plain STUPID for Enterprise type work where you need to create a lot of content, have many windows open at the same time and don't really have any need for either TOUCH or the whole Metro stuff.

    Installing large complex BUSINESS type applications makes navigating those horrendous tiles absolutely ridiculous -- every stupid .EXE file creates a tile which is just slung anywhere on the desktop - not necessarily within the application group you are installing. For BUSINESS use this whole mess requires far too much Post Install clean up work and the whole navigation stuff is just PLAIN BONKERS for enterprises.

    The whole progression for Windows 8 is towards simple quick full screen transactional stuff -- rather like you'd use on a tablet or a mobile phone.

    A lot of CONTENT CREATION isn't done that way at all -- for example you could have large complex CAD 3-D engineering drawings over several HUGE monitors or even a simple application like Document translation. Remove the Windowed concept away from Windows and the whole thing becomes essentially useless.

    What about I.T developers who want to step through and debug code say in Visual studio -- without some sort of multi-windowed approach where they can examine and change variables and set further break points I think their job might be quite difficult.

    Work places use desktops like classical computers and NOT overgrown tablets or mobile phones.

    There's nothing wrong with the performance of W8 - and you can make it useable if you have a FEW applications only on it - but no business is going to rush out and buy 3,000 copies of Start8 or similar to add a feature to an OS they expect to be fit for purpose straight out of the box.

    Incidentally a lot of these 3rd party apps are fine for home users - but they aren't reliable or robust enough for large organisations. Imagine coming in to work on a Monday morning and finding out due to some ms updates applied over the weekend your computer is just a big Door Stop -- and the I.T admins are away in India who don't seem to have a problem (possibly because they are still running the PRE updates) and not available until Lunch time etc etc.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #23


    Melbourne
    Posts : 38
    Windows 7 Ultimate X64


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    The thing is, Lee, that many are intimidated by Linux. But those that aren't, and who value the 'desktop experience' will soon switch if MS continues to devolve the 'desktop' in favour of small, under-powered, under-featured tablets & hybrids.

    No, it won't see Linux become No 1. But it would give it a good boost.

    Also, I agree with those who believe Linux (or rather, its developers) is its own worst enemy.

    They need to select ONE distro, and all concentrate on that. Fragmentation is a big problem for Linux.
    .
    I have just converted 3 of my windows 7 PCs to Linux Mint Cinnamon, and they will stay that way.

    What pushed me into this, was not that there is anything wrong with Windows 7; It was the direction M$ have taken with Win8, the shutting down of Technet, and the fact that M$ seems to have no clue what its customers want or need.

    Granted, these PCs are only used for media type functions, and various centralized functions, but it's start of a greater change of direction for this household. I'm already finalizing plans to change my Win 2008 R2 to a Red Hat server product.

    I really only played with Linux seriously 15 years ago (back in the days of the 2.2 kernel). It took me all of half a day to pick it up again. But then, I'm a tech head.

    I agree with your view on fragmentation.

    Tanya
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #24


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    I have just converted 3 of my windows 7 PCs to Linux Mint Cinnamon, and they will stay that way.
    Yes, I quite like Mint Cinnamon.

    I have Mint Mate as well, but haven't had the time to play with it much.


    Wenda.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #25


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by TanyaC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    The thing is, Lee, that many are intimidated by Linux. But those that aren't, and who value the 'desktop experience' will soon switch if MS continues to devolve the 'desktop' in favour of small, under-powered, under-featured tablets & hybrids.

    No, it won't see Linux become No 1. But it would give it a good boost.

    Also, I agree with those who believe Linux (or rather, its developers) is its own worst enemy.

    They need to select ONE distro, and all concentrate on that. Fragmentation is a big problem for Linux.
    .
    I have just converted 3 of my windows 7 PCs to Linux Mint Cinnamon, and they will stay that way.

    What pushed me into this, was not that there is anything wrong with Windows 7; It was the direction M$ have taken with Win8, the shutting down of Technet, and the fact that M$ seems to have no clue what its customers want or need.

    Granted, these PCs are only used for media type functions, and various centralized functions, but it's start of a greater change of direction for this household. I'm already finalizing plans to change my Win 2008 R2 to a Red Hat server product.

    I really only played with Linux seriously 15 years ago (back in the days of the 2.2 kernel). It took me all of half a day to pick it up again. But then, I'm a tech head.

    I agree with your view on fragmentation.

    Tanya
    Hi there
    Problem IS fragmentation -- I tried SUSE LINUX and MINT Cinnamon -- I absolutely MUST have MS office and Photoshop for the foreseeable future so I tried installing VMWARE hoping to get a Windows virtual machine up and running for these applications -- no way can I use anything else other than Photoshop or Office and they don't work on WINE properly either.

    SUSE 12.3 (current release version) gave me some problem about "Kernel headers missing" -- so I tried to do what I found on Google - install the kernel source package and then try again -- now I was getting some sort of "Hard stop -compile / run time error" with some totally bizarre messages (at least to me they seemed to be). There's no way any average person could even BEGIN to sort this mess out (and I still haven't).

    On Cinnamon the situation was even worse - the application appeared to install but just did NOTHING AT ALL when trying to start it up.

    Whatever one says about Windows at least most stuff just installs and if it doesn't there's usually enough UNDERSTANDABLE help on the web. With Linux you really are on your own and it's often touch and go if ANY application will work again when you upgrade the system.

    I also need an XP machine to run some legacy hardware --it WILL work on Linux once VMware can get installed and working -- I've had it working several years ago but decided Linux wasn't worth bothering with once W7 came out. With the new way Ms is going (subscription software, tablet GUI etc) I though I'd look at Linux again -- but the whole dogs dinner of SOFTWARE install still reminds me of old fashioned techie types working away on keyboards about 20 years ago - it certainly hasn't got any easier even if hardware detection has improved.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #26


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post

    Yes, I quite like Mint Cinnamon.

    I have Mint Mate as well, but haven't had the time to play with it much.


    Wenda.
    I have toyed with Mint Cinnamon 13 and 14 on live CD's.

    I'm planning to get Mint 15 soon.

    Mint just evolves too fast. New version every few months, faster phase than Ubuntu. I quite like Mint better than Ubuntu because of the UI. Just 2 years ago, I was using Mint 9 much more often with Windows 7 dual booted with it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #27


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    They need to select ONE distro, and all concentrate on that. Fragmentation is a big problem for Linux.
    But that goes against the whole philosophy of Linux. If things were that easy, we could just say, everybody needs to do Metro and just agree on it. Won't happen.




    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
    To be honest, the LiNazis do like it that way. Makes them feel special.
    Not sure I completely agree with that. The open source community does a ton to provide solutions and software for the masses, all without cost and restrictions to further change, develop and distribute it.

    As an avid Linux user myself (I support way more Linux at work then Windows), for the most part things get hard because hardware is often made more or less for Windows. With enterprise class servers, drivers are prevalent and stuff just works. With home users, it's simply not that easy. For many of us, we had to work "hard" to get our systems running. It's unrealistic to say to somebody new to a forum, "oh, just click here, here and here and viola...it works".

    I don't consider myself to be a Linux elitist. However, many a Windows user will complain that " I cannot believe you have to do something at the command line in Linux". For me personally, I prefer it. it's scriptable, it's repeatable and it makes documentation of setup an absolute breeze. My preference for a command line system to some might come off as being an elitist snob, but it just makes my life easier and provides me more benefits.
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  8. #28


    Posts : 176
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Must be the "Year of Linux" people doing some wishing and hoping along with writing trash articles about the down fall of the great and powerful Microsoft, "Beware The Eyes Of March" the Nay Sayers have spoken. . .
    I think you mean Ides of March.
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  9. #29


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Linux Mint 15 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    I have just converted 3 of my windows 7 PCs to Linux Mint Cinnamon, and they will stay that way.
    Yes, I quite like Mint Cinnamon.

    I have Mint Mate as well, but haven't had the time to play with it much.
    Last week I installed Linux Mint 15 MATE (64 bit) in VMware Player (running in Linux Mint 14 MATE).

    It's lightning fast (it's the fastest modern OS I've played with).

    The Linux Mint 15 MATE (64 bit) VM:

    • Took ~6 minutes to install (I skipped the languages)
    • Took ~10 minutes to update everything
    • Booted up in ~15 - 20 seconds!
    • Used ~350 MB of RAM (measured by the VM's system monitor)

    I'm giving serious consideration to replacing Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) on my HDD with it.
    The only thing holding me back is, my friend promised to sell me his 512 GB SSD, so I might wait for that to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    Problem IS fragmentation -- I tried SUSE LINUX and MINT Cinnamon -- I absolutely MUST have MS office and Photoshop for the foreseeable future so I tried installing VMWARE hoping to get a Windows virtual machine up and running for these applications -- no way can I use anything else other than Photoshop or Office and they don't work on WINE properly either.

    SUSE 12.3 (current release version) gave me some problem about "Kernel headers missing" -- so I tried to do what I found on Google - install the kernel source package and then try again -- now I was getting some sort of "Hard stop -compile / run time error" with some totally bizarre messages (at least to me they seemed to be). There's no way any average person could even BEGIN to sort this mess out (and I still haven't).

    On Cinnamon the situation was even worse - the application appeared to install but just did NOTHING AT ALL when trying to start it up.
    VMware Player runs correctly on my Linux Mint MATE 14 (64 bit).
    I went to VMware's site and downloaded the bundle and installed it with no problems.

    I don't know why it wouldn't work in your SUSE LINUX and MINT Cinnamon installs.
    Are you sure you downloaded the correct bundle?

    I used to see that message when I tried to install VMware Tools in my Fedora VM.
    It was a pain to get the necessary files (development headers?) and install them.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #30


    Windows isn't dying, it's just becoming irrelevant

    Summary: Just as the stone ax gave way to one made of bronze, the Windows-powered PC must now give way to better, more customized, more refined tools.
    My ZDNet colleague Matt Baxter-Reynolds penned an excellent piece yesterday on Microsoft's failed "Windows 8 Project" and how the death of the PC could also be the death of Windows. While I agree with Baxter-Reynolds that Microsoft is going to face some serious challenges over the coming years as the era of the PC wanes, where he sees death as awaiting the platform, I see irrelevance as its ultimate fate.
    The bottom line

    Windows, along with the PC, is going to be around for years to come. We're not talking about the sudden, premature death of the two icons of the modern IT world. Instead, what we are seeing is a slow, but certain, slide into irrelevance. Just as the stone ax gave way to one made of bronze, the Windows-powered PC must now give way to better, more customized, more refined tools.
    Windows isn't dying, it's just becoming irrelevant | ZDNet
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Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
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