Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Microsoft COO Kevin Turner refuses to lose

  1. #11


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    Quote Originally Posted by acr731 View Post
    The desktop is no where close to being dead. Why do people keep saying that? Walk into any large business around the country and what do you see? Desktop computers.... Its not a dead technology, not now, and not any time in the next 10-15 years.
    A combination of wishful thinking, ignorance, and a genuine desire to take control away from users.

    They don't want end-users to be able to create, only consume (paid) content.

    And what better way to ensure that, than to downgrade/debilitate the technology they use to create.

    "Now, be good little sheep, pay your annual 'fee', and be happy with it....OH!, but do check out this new Angry Birds level..... Yours for just $199.95 (per annum)"?

    No thanks, to Hell with that!

    I won't play, sorry. And I certainly won't PAY. Try to monetise or restrict me, and I will go elsewhere, make no mistake about that.


    Wenda.
    Last edited by Wenda; 11 Jul 2013 at 17:29.

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  2. #12


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    It is encouraging to see at least some standing up against this corporate vision of everybody else's future.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    You are dead wrong. Developers are VERY MUCH behind this strategy, you know why? BECAUSE THEY MAKE MONEY. Yes, Microsoft takes a cut. But would you rather have 100% of $1M or 70% of $100M? Developers have seen this in action in the Apple Store, and they chomping at the bit to get their own piece of that.
    There isn't a single developer of WINDOWS APPLICATIONS that is behind this strategy. Not one. But by all means feel free to name these developers that you believe are VERY MUCH behind this strategy. Actual names since you're sooooo sure they're behind it.

    If you're talking about Windows App makers, they could largely care less since they're already making apps. All half a dozen of the companies that may actually specialize in Windows apps(and i'm probably overstating at that).

    Most companies who specialize in actual Apps(i.e. they already put out something people actually download in the Android or iOS stores), won't even give Windows the time of day until Redmond starts gaining a significant portion of the market. Microsoft is not only begging them to convert.. but offering cash to do so. And yet, there is a reason the 'ecosystem' is still not over 100K apps.

    Attempting to shove actual Windows Application developers in there will not fix that, because they *will* refuse to go. For a lot of them(those that sell specialized software to companies or to people who work for companies), their market is usually specialized enough that simply getting pushed into that Store does not significantly increase their potential userbase or revenue on its own in any way, shape, or form, and re-coding to optimize to touch so the program doesn't fall apart on an 8" screen is very expensive. So not only do they have significant redevelopment costs, but they then have to give 20-30% of their revenue to Microsoft. You're absolutely delusional if you think they want, or will in any way do this.

    If Microsoft goes this path, expect Windows Developers to start urging companies and their customers never to upgrade past 7 or 8 and to really start probing other options, including Mac, while sunsetting their Windows development. Instead of minimum requirements.. there will start being maximum requirements for Windows Applications.
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  4. #14


    Posts : 142
    Win 7 Pro x64


    I'm really starting to believe we have Microsoft employees posting on this site.

    I know, I know, what took me so long to come to this conclusion.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    You're confusing "The Desktop" with "The Win32 Desktop UI" and more importantly, with Win32 applications.

    Users will always need to do Desktop-like activities, it doesn't mean they need Win32 Applications to do it, particularly as the WinRT API evolves to have all the same functionality.
    What exactly do you think WinRT is built on top of? Magic? Voodoo? 'It just works'?
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  6. #16


    Posts : 47
    Win 8 (?)


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by acr731 View Post
    The desktop is no where close to being dead. Why do people keep saying that? Walk into any large business around the country and what do you see? Desktop computers.... Its not a dead technology, not now, and not any time in the next 10-15 years.
    A combination of wishful thinking, ignorance, and a genuine desire to take control away from users.

    They don't want end-users to be able to create, only consume (paid) content.

    And what better way to ensure that, than to downgrade/debilitate the technology they use to create.

    "Now, be good little sheep, pay your annual 'fee', and be happy with it....OH!, but do check out this new Angry Birds level..... Yours for just $199.95 (per annum)"?

    No thanks, to Hell with that!

    I won't play, sorry. And I certainly won't PAY. Try to monetise or restrict me, and I will go elsewhere, make no mistake about that.


    Wenda.
    That's EXACTLY my thought

    To be clear... I decide what I WANT and what I NEED, "dear" Microsoft...
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  7. #17


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    There isn't a single developer of WINDOWS APPLICATIONS that is behind this strategy. Not one. But by all means feel free to name these developers that you believe are VERY MUCH behind this strategy. Actual names since you're sooooo sure they're behind it.
    You are still absolutely wrong.

    Here's a short list off the top of my head. These companies either have apps, or have announced they are developing apps..

    Oracle, IBM, SAP, Adobe, Autodesk, Cyberlink, Symantec, NovaSoft, Corel, Mindjet, Rhapsody, Pandora, Trend Micro, etc..

    That's not even counting desktop "cloud" apps, like Box, DropBox, Evernote, etc.. And it's not counting all the iOS and Android app makers that are porting apps to Windows 8.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Most companies who specialize in actual Apps(i.e. they already put out something people actually download in the Android or iOS stores), won't even give Windows the time of day until Redmond starts gaining a significant portion of the market. Microsoft is not only begging them to convert.. but offering cash to do so. And yet, there is a reason the 'ecosystem' is still not over 100K apps.
    Market share is a totally different issue from whether Desktop app vendors will write software for mobile markets. But you're just moving the goal posts. You said that PC developers would be pissed off, and that is not going to be true at all, because Metro apps open up a totally new revenue stream for them. Any developer that isn't excited by this will be out of business in 5 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Attempting to shove actual Windows Application developers in there will not fix that, because they *will* refuse to go. For a lot of them(those that sell specialized software to companies or to people who work for companies), their market is usually specialized enough that simply getting pushed into that Store does not significantly increase their potential userbase or revenue on its own in any way, shape, or form, and re-coding to optimize to touch so the program doesn't fall apart on an 8" screen is very expensive. So not only do they have significant redevelopment costs, but they then have to give 20-30% of their revenue to Microsoft. You're absolutely delusional if you think they want, or will in any way do this.
    That's called vertical application market, and that's why Win32 will continue for at least a decade, but will be relegated to a virtual machine running inside WinRT. Those app developers will eventually have to start porting their apps to WinRT so they run on the new ARM based servers (which won't have x86 compatibility) and architectures. It's not just the desktop that's moving towards WinRT, it's the server as well, and for good reason. It opens up broad new avenues of hardware that can be used.

    You really have no idea the kind of market pressures that are coming down the pipe to reduce power consumption, reduce costs, etc.. all that points to power efficient strategies using non x86 technologies. In order to do that, you need WinRT so apps run on any hardware.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    If Microsoft goes this path, expect Windows Developers to start urging companies and their customers never to upgrade past 7 or 8 and to really start probing other options, including Mac, while sunsetting their Windows development. Instead of minimum requirements.. there will start being maximum requirements for Windows Applications.
    That's not going to happen. There is no company out there that is doing that. Can you name one?
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  8. #18


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    There isn't a single developer of WINDOWS APPLICATIONS that is behind this strategy. Not one. But by all means feel free to name these developers that you believe are VERY MUCH behind this strategy. Actual names since you're sooooo sure they're behind it.
    You are still absolutely wrong.

    Here's a short list off the top of my head. These companies either have apps, or have announced they are developing apps..

    Oracle, IBM, SAP, Adobe, Autodesk, Cyberlink, Symantec, NovaSoft, Corel, Mindjet, Rhapsody, Pandora, Trend Micro, etc..
    MAKING an app is not the same thing as being told you have to take all your applications and refactor them as an app.

    "Hi guys! Microsoft wants you to take all your products and turn them into apps so they can be paid 20-30% of your revenue thxmuch. Wait! Where are you guys going? COME BACK!".

    No company is up for that. Will they consider making AN app? Sure. Its the in thing. But nobody is behind the idea that all programs large and small should be apps(so that Microsoft can tax them), except Microsoft, and I guess you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    That's not even counting desktop "cloud" apps, like Box, DropBox, Evernote, etc.. And it's not counting all the iOS and Android app makers that are porting apps to Windows 8.
    The same developers that Microsoft has to pay?
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  9. #19


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    The same developers that Microsoft has to pay?
    Looks like they aren't paying them enough.
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  10. #20


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    The same developers that Microsoft has to pay?
    Looks like they aren't paying them enough.
    Apparently not :>
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Microsoft COO Kevin Turner refuses to lose
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