Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Nokia credit rating downgraded again amid cash concerns

  1. #21


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    In my experience the Mega Pixels are only part of the story. I own a 4MP camera with an excellent Zeiss lens that takes very good pictures - much better than my 12MP camera that has only an average lens.
    Hi there
    Back in the early days of DSLRs the professional Canon 1D only had something like 4MP's but it was an absolute stunner for its day and was quite easily capable of producing a great A4 size print -- of course the Pixels were HUGE and Pro shooters would get the most expensive / highest quality Lenses available. (For Canon those would be the WHITE coloured designated "L" lenses -- I'm sure Nikon shooters also would have high quality PRO glass too). ZEISS glass also if you can make it fit on these PRO DSLR cameras is also a really good choice as well

    An even more idiotic thing with the whole 41 MP nonsense is work out the resolving power of that Lens (only consumer grade at that). It wouldn't even BEGIN to have the resolving power of that many MP's. !!! I'll bet any decent photographer around here (not necessarily PRO) must be really laughing off their Bar stools and spilling their Beer reading about a 41MP camera in a small phone. !!

    When I ist looked at the specs I thought -- hang on a minute --it's not Apr ist so I said to myself must be a typo - don't they mean 4.1MP's -- still perfectly OK for what 99.9% of Mobile phone camera users want to do -- but no it really was 41MP. !! Crazy.

    For the more mathematically inclined you work out the resolving power of a lens as the number of line pairs per mm.
    A moderately reasonably good CONSUMER grade lens could resolve roughly 50 line pairs per mm so 12 MP would be the best you could do - anything over is a total waste -- and I doubt very much if a Phone camera lens could resolve anything like 50 line pairs per mm).

    A decent PRO lens typically has 100 line pairs per mm - approx. 24 MP. Top quality but really expensive glass has 150 - 200 Line pairs per mm -- and here we are talking about very expensive lenses usually in the several THOUSAND US Dollar range.

    My feel on the whole Nokia camera thing is one of those Finnish guys must have been coming out of a Corporate Jolly in Amsterdam after visiting one of that city's famous Coffee shops after using some of that "Waccy Baccy".


    Cheers
    jimbo

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  2. #22


    Somewhere in USA
    Posts : 233
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    In my experience the Mega Pixels are only part of the story. I own a 4MP camera with an excellent Zeiss lens that takes very good pictures - much better than my 12MP camera that has only an average lens.
    Hi there
    Back in the early days of DSLRs the professional Canon 1D only had something like 4MP's but it was an absolute stunner for its day and was quite easily capable of producing a great A4 size print -- of course the Pixels were HUGE and Pro shooters would get the most expensive / highest quality Lenses available. (For Canon those would be the WHITE coloured designated "L" lenses -- I'm sure Nikon shooters also would have high quality PRO glass too). ZEISS glass also if you can make it fit on these PRO DSLR cameras is also a really good choice as well

    An even more idiotic thing with the whole 41 MP nonsense is work out the resolving power of that Lens (only consumer grade at that). It wouldn't even BEGIN to have the resolving power of that many MP's. !!! I'll bet any decent photographer around here (not necessarily PRO) must be really laughing off their Bar stools and spilling their Beer reading about a 41MP camera in a small phone. !!

    When I ist looked at the specs I thought -- hang on a minute --it's not Apr ist so I said to myself must be a typo - don't they mean 4.1MP's -- still perfectly OK for what 99.9% of Mobile phone camera users want to do -- but no it really was 41MP. !! Crazy.

    For the more mathematically inclined you work out the resolving power of a lens as the number of line pairs per mm.
    A moderately reasonably good CONSUMER grade lens could resolve roughly 50 line pairs per mm so 12 MP would be the best you could do - anything over is a total waste -- and I doubt very much if a Phone camera lens could resolve anything like 50 line pairs per mm).

    A decent PRO lens typically has 100 line pairs per mm - approx. 24 MP. Top quality but really expensive glass has 150 - 200 Line pairs per mm -- and here we are talking about very expensive lenses usually in the several THOUSAND US Dollar range.

    My feel on the whole Nokia camera thing is one of those Finnish guys must have been coming out of a Corporate Jolly in Amsterdam after visiting one of that city's famous Coffee shops after using some of that "Waccy Baccy".


    Cheers
    jimbo
    No one is dumb enough to think that a phone lens is going to trump any DSLR. There is no need to get looney. They are simply innovating and giving customers what they want. They introduced this tech over a yr. ago on the wrong platform. They had an outcry of customers wanting it for WP and now they have it.

    There is nothing wrong with innovation. They clearly have the best camera on a phone period. Regardless of megapixels.

    Why don't you go tell el Goog that octo-core chips are overkill or even 1080 displays on a phone. What happens when they stick with the silly Snapdragon the 1020 is using for their flagships? Is that something you've been attacking?
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  3. #23


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    There are many factors that go into the quality of a digital camera. Of course optics are huge. Apple has done a lot of work to make their optics in the recent iPhones quite good for their size (if you shake the phone, you can hear a rattling sound, it's the way they have their optics with multiple lenses). Heck, you can even get crazy things like this: iPro Lens System

    However, even more important, if you at least have ok optics is that ccd sensor(s). High end cameras often (or used to) have multiple sensors, one for each of the primary colors. This lowers noise, and gives higher image quality. Another factor can be ccd size. A larger ccd allows more light and thus more "signal". Larger ccd's are often better at producing clearer low-light images.

    Obviously, cell phone makers want to make their components as small as possible, as energy efficient as possible, and as cheap as possible. So these factors are typically diametrically opposed to the needs of professional photographers, who usually care more about quality than they do size, weight, cost, etc.. It's all about priorities.

    In the consumer space, it's all about Megapixels, because it's an easy statistic that consumers can recognize. Also, having a large number of megapixels means you can resample the image to reduce noise and improve the image quality digitally to a certain point. Megapixels alone are pointless if they don't also come with the ability to better utilize them.
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  4. #24


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post

    My feel on the whole Nokia camera thing is one of those Finnish guys must have been coming out of a Corporate Jolly in Amsterdam after visiting one of that city's famous Coffee shops after using some of that "Waccy Baccy".
    Cheers
    jimbo
    LOL. It's marketing.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #25


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    There are many factors that go into the quality of a digital camera. Of course optics are huge. Apple has done a lot of work to make their optics in the recent iPhones quite good for their size (if you shake the phone, you can hear a rattling sound, it's the way they have their optics with multiple lenses). Heck, you can even get crazy things like this: iPro Lens System

    However, even more important, if you at least have ok optics is that ccd sensor(s). High end cameras often (or used to) have multiple sensors, one for each of the primary colors. This lowers noise, and gives higher image quality. Another factor can be ccd size. A larger ccd allows more light and thus more "signal". Larger ccd's are often better at producing clearer low-light images.

    Obviously, cell phone makers want to make their components as small as possible, as energy efficient as possible, and as cheap as possible. So these factors are typically diametrically opposed to the needs of professional photographers, who usually care more about quality than they do size, weight, cost, etc.. It's all about priorities.

    In the consumer space, it's all about Megapixels, because it's an easy statistic that consumers can recognize. Also, having a large number of megapixels means you can resample the image to reduce noise and improve the image quality digitally to a certain point. Megapixels alone are pointless if they don't also come with the ability to better utilize them.
    Hi there

    the point is "If you have OK Optics" -- and in general this is what a mobile phone camera FAILS to deliver at any stage of the process -- as I said in the previous reply if these cameras were really Serious pieces of photographic kit do you think the pro's would traipse around with really heavy cumbersome gear and expensive lenses sometimes costing THOUSAND's of US Dollars.

    I defy ANYBODY using the BEST Iphone camera to get even a great PORTRAIT photo with a Narrow DOF and great Bokeh. If you can please post your reply. I'd be really interested in seeing it.

    Phone cameras are fine for quick "Snaps", Beach / family / Barbecue etc stuff or if you need to grab a shot for use in a Court case or as a journalistic Scoop such as the truck driver got when the Concorde caught fire leaving Charles DeGaulle airport a few years ago.

    Seconds From Disaster - S01E01 - Crash of the Concorde - YouTube

    Otherwise Photography and Phone cameras are two opposite extremes.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #26


    Posts : 376
    W8.1, W7


    MS' 'phony tiles' OS does not help Nokia:

    overall mobile device shipments fell 27% compared with the same period in 2012.
    Nokia trims losses, but revenue continues to fall - MarketWatch
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  7. #27


    It's sad to see the demise of Nokia... and I thought Symbian was crap.. ah well roll-on Key Lime Pie...LOL
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Nokia credit rating downgraded again amid cash concerns
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