Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8.1 first look: Finally, Windows the way you want

  1. #141


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by EMINENT View Post
    If you can't think of one word on your own...

    How's this?

    Touchscreen.

    It's designed in a way to mimic a freaking T O U C H S C R E E N !

    Instead of a metaphor. It really is one!
    HAHA I lol'd.

    The real-world metaphor that app-driven, walled garden environments were designed to mimic is Television.

    It was a way of bringing Television to the computing environments so that you could create interactive variations on television. In order to do this, they went with a secure run-time operating system in order to completely lockdown 'the network' from the rest of the system, and vice versa. In this way, a company could broadcast their content in an interactive manner using actual source code and programming, while the user would have no fear of viruses or worms traditionally associated with the transfer of code.

    Microsoft took this and ended up creating the Modern or Metro styling of making everything full-screen and allowing you to quickly 'change channels'. If you're looking to broadcast an interactive app as the new television, you want it to have a world of its own. Thats why they insist upon it taking up the full allotted area, no matter its size. Likewise, its no error that their 'multitasking' involves allowing the user to configure their screen into multiple 'televisions' that look exactly like something you'd see at a Vegas casino security room. Simply set the televisions side by side and you can view multiple 'channels' you're interested in.

    This is also why Microsofts plan for replacing the desktop with a television-based app environment simply won't work. The desktop is largely a content creation mechanism, and in that paradigm you have multiple streams of data merging into and the user uses to create something new. Even constructing a document, you may need information from the web, from email, or as data being sent to you from various sources in a dynamic fashion. In order to manage these streams, the television paradigm of an app, simply falls apart because its designed to have content flow to the user, not from other apps into the app.

    Something as rudimentary as Netflix would do well to take note, and to reimagine what they're doing and allow their app to actually contain multiple forms of data streamed from the servers that are unrealistic in a web-based environment, but fairly easy in an interactive television-based app environment. Commentary tracks, extras, and pretty much anything you can find on a Blu-Ray. There is no reason all that stuff can't run out of their interactive app.

    Now this isn't to say that the two paradigms can't coexist, and there isn't any reason they shouldn't co-exist. But the desktop's strength is content creation, while the television-based app environment is based around content consumption. Two halves of a coin, and if you keep them separate the whole makes a lot more sense. This is the one thing Microsoft doesn't seem to understand, and until they stop trying to put a round peg into a square hole(content creation into a television-based consumption environment), they will fail miserably.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #142


    Posts : 902
    Win8.1 Pro, Desktop Mode


    Quote Originally Posted by EMINENT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    LOL. Metro is intended to get users into the online services , subscriptions, ads, and other monetising schemes. That is why it is so prominent.
    Quite right... that is the overwhelming reason for metro. What baffles me, is that the pro-metro crowd don't seem to 'get' this.....
    No. What you don't get is..... We all know this, and we don't care.
    Well then, that is an entirely different story. At this point, I will beg off from this particular line of thought, so as to stay within board guidelines....
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #143


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post

    Now this isn't to say that the two paradigms can't coexist, and there isn't any reason they shouldn't co-exist. But the desktop's strength is content creation, while the television-based app environment is based around content consumption. This is the one thing Microsoft doesn't seem to understand, and until they stop trying to put a round peg into a square hole(content creation into a television-based consumption environment), they will fail miserably.
    I've said this before, and I'll say again. Last I checked this morning, the desktop is still there. I even opened up and spent about an hour working on a project using visual studio. You're making it sound like someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to not go into the desktop environment.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #144


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post

    Now this isn't to say that the two paradigms can't coexist, and there isn't any reason they shouldn't co-exist. But the desktop's strength is content creation, while the television-based app environment is based around content consumption. This is the one thing Microsoft doesn't seem to understand, and until they stop trying to put a round peg into a square hole(content creation into a television-based consumption environment), they will fail miserably.
    I've said this before, and I'll say again. Last I checked this morning, the desktop is still there. I even opened up and spent about an hour working on a project using visual studio. You're making it sound like someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to not go into the desktop environment.
    No, we've all been saying that Microsoft intends us to all move to the television-based consumption environment while they 'phase out' the desktop. You can either hold a gun to someone's head, or you can simply keep taking things away until they find themselves already there. They aren't fooling anyone with the second tactic, and its why Windows 8.x is failing.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #145


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post

    Now this isn't to say that the two paradigms can't coexist, and there isn't any reason they shouldn't co-exist. But the desktop's strength is content creation, while the television-based app environment is based around content consumption. This is the one thing Microsoft doesn't seem to understand, and until they stop trying to put a round peg into a square hole(content creation into a television-based consumption environment), they will fail miserably.
    I've said this before, and I'll say again. Last I checked this morning, the desktop is still there. I even opened up and spent about an hour working on a project using visual studio. You're making it sound like someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to not go into the desktop environment.
    No, we've all been saying that Microsoft intends us to all move to the television-based consumption environment while they 'phase out' the desktop. You can either hold a gun to someone's head, or you can simply keep taking things away until they find themselves already there. They aren't fooling anyone with the second tactic, and its why Windows 8.x is failing.
    Allow me to bring up another topic to demonstrate a point that I'm going to make here.

    People here have been assuming I'm a woman because I've mentioned my boyfriend/partner before. I am in fact a gay man in a long term relationship with another man. We've been together for a while, and to this day people still compare our relationship to pedophilia and bestiality, and that our relationship will lead to those things plus cannibalism, baby killing, etc. Heck, a man once said to my face that my sinful and unnatural relationship with my partner is causing a sharp rise to teenage pregnancy. Try to do the math on that one.

    All MS has done is introduce a touch friendly interface that works alongside with the desktop interface. And you're already using the slippery slope fallacy. Again, if you don't like 8, use 7, Linux, Mac OS, etc. Nobody is forcing you to use 8 or work in metro just like nobody is forcing you to marry someone of the same sex.

    I find it incredible that the same arguments are used across all kinds of issues. I'm willing to bet they're coming from the same people, too.

    Frankly, I'm thankful I have windows 8 to work with. When I'm out in the field I use a windows 8 tablet to perform all the tasks that we used to have to drive back to the office to do. And when I'm at home I can fire up my i7 desktop and work with two 24" monitors. Everything works fine to me. The tech world hasn't ended yet just like fire and brimstone hasn't rained down on America yet. Trust me, I'm still waiting for it to happen. I've been promised a great light show.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #146


    Posts : 2
    Window 8


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post

    Now this isn't to say that the two paradigms can't coexist, and there isn't any reason they shouldn't co-exist. But the desktop's strength is content creation, while the television-based app environment is based around content consumption. This is the one thing Microsoft doesn't seem to understand, and until they stop trying to put a round peg into a square hole(content creation into a television-based consumption environment), they will fail miserably.
    I've said this before, and I'll say again. Last I checked this morning, the desktop is still there. I even opened up and spent about an hour working on a project using visual studio. You're making it sound like someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to not go into the desktop environment.
    No, we've all been saying that Microsoft intends us to all move to the television-based consumption environment while they 'phase out' the desktop. You can either hold a gun to someone's head, or you can simply keep taking things away until they find themselves already there. They aren't fooling anyone with the second tactic, and its why Windows 8.x is failing.
    "Move to TV and phasing out the PCs..." It is nonsense. Microsoft still gets and dominate healthy PC sales, although not growth which not because Win 8 but people turn to look tablets, the one that they do not have, instead.
    Windows 8 provides
    1. Faster boost: with any kind of hardisks, you will find it. Some claim just 3 seconds to open.
    2. Noticeably faster performance as a whole: With notebook, tablets and traditional PCs, you will find that it is surprisingly faster without compromising in performance.
    3. Backward compatibility: You will gonna run on your previous software. Nearly all of them. It is so hard to identify that what software that can runs on Win 7 but not in Win 8.
    4. Lower power consumption: It is noticeable and it is good news for tablets and notebook, even PCs. This improvement is nothing to complain, more or less.
    5. Less hardware hungry: With new encryption technology from Intel and Microsoft, make Win 8 consume less resource of your computers. It is clear that Microsoft cares more about nootbook and PCs get some benefits, too. Maybe they will find no need to upgrade their PC to run this Win 8 and found it is faster.
    6. Relaible: With latest code in Win 8, in theory it more reliable. It is save to say it need time to prove this. Just today, it is ok.
    7. Powerful and flexible: This OS still is the most powerful in this World. You can change and design to easily match your sofeware requirements.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #147


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    People here have been assuming I'm a woman because I've mentioned my boyfriend/partner before. I am in fact a gay man in a long term relationship with another man. We've been together for a while, and to this day people still compare our relationship to pedophilia and bestiality, and that our relationship will lead to those things plus cannibalism, baby killing, etc. Heck, a man once said to my face that my sinful and unnatural relationship with my partner is causing a sharp rise to teenage pregnancy. Try to do the math on that one.
    Um.. do the math on this. Nobody here honestly cares what your personal life is like, nor does it have any bearing at all on the discussion lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    All MS has done is introduce a touch friendly interface that works alongside with the desktop interface. And you're already using the slippery slope fallacy. Again, if you don't like 8, use 7, Linux, Mac OS, etc. Nobody is forcing you to use 8 or work in metro.
    And some of us are a bit beyond the tourist mentality you exhibit towards computing. You don't live in Windows, I understand. As a developer, I make my living off it and have a fairly vested interest in making sure they put out something people would actually like to buy. So far, they've failed. This isn't my subjective assessment, its the assessment of people and their wallets. I'd love for 8 to be doing gangbusters, but it hasn't, and I've pretty clearly explained why.

    Simply ignoring the problems and sticking your head in the sand is certainly one way to go, and I applaud you in that course of action.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #148


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Aye Aye View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post

    I've said this before, and I'll say again. Last I checked this morning, the desktop is still there. I even opened up and spent about an hour working on a project using visual studio. You're making it sound like someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to not go into the desktop environment.
    No, we've all been saying that Microsoft intends us to all move to the television-based consumption environment while they 'phase out' the desktop. You can either hold a gun to someone's head, or you can simply keep taking things away until they find themselves already there. They aren't fooling anyone with the second tactic, and its why Windows 8.x is failing.
    "Move to TV and phasing out the PCs..." It is nonsense.
    No. I'm saying the interface design metaphor is based off that of the TV. They're using the mobile PC to reinvent the TV. This was the intention of Apple from the outset. Every app will be its own network, every network will have interactive content. None of this can or will replace the traditional desktop environment for content creation, no matter how much Microsoft tries to shoehorn it in.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #149


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post

    Um.. do the math on this. Nobody here honestly cares what your personal life is like, nor does it have any bearing at all on the discussion lol.
    Apparently, you never passed English class in school. You completely missed my point. In fact, it seem like you purposely missed my point in order to make a snark comment regarding that.

    At no point did I even imply that my personal life has any bearing on this, or that anyone here would care. My point was the same argument that the world at large use to argue against my relationship with my partner is now being used by you guys for another purpose. It's the same tired argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    All MS has done is introduce a touch friendly interface that works alongside with the desktop interface. And you're already using the slippery slope fallacy. Again, if you don't like 8, use 7, Linux, Mac OS, etc. Nobody is forcing you to use 8 or work in metro.
    And some of us are a bit beyond the tourist mentality you exhibit towards computing. You don't live in Windows, I understand. As a developer, I make my living off it and have a fairly vested interest in making sure they put out something people would actually like to buy. So far, they've failed. This isn't my subjective assessment, its the assessment of people and their wallets. I'd love for 8 to be doing gangbusters, but it hasn't, and I've pretty clearly explained why.

    Simply ignoring the problems and sticking your head in the sand is certainly one way to go, and I applaud you in that course of action.
    As I've explained before many times, people aren't buying windows 8 machines as much as the previous versions isn't because 8 sucks but because the market and people's households are already saturated by iOS and android devices. The following image was taken by moi the last time I visited my sister. Those are asus transformer infinity tf700t's. Each one was about $600 when they bought them. One for each member of the family (husband, wife, a 3 year old, a 6 year old, and a 9 year old). In addition, there are two galaxy tab 2's and two galaxy s3's. In the house, there's also an i7 laptop upstairs and an i7 desktop downstairs, both running 7.

    Click image for larger version


    Why would a household like that go out and buy a windows 8 machine at this time?

    PC sales took a nose dive long before windows 8 came onto the scene. Why not blame the fall of PC sales on windows 7, then? I'll tell you why. Because most people are braindead computer users. Most people just want something to go onto facebook and blogs. They don't work with honest to god PC's.

    If anything, blame MS for putting out 8 too late. Because by the time 8 came out, most braindead users were already accustomed to their iOS and android phablets.

    There's nothing wrong with 8. I work with it everyday. I still have access to all the desktop programs I need.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #150


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    As I've explained before many times, people aren't buying windows 8 machines as much as the previous versions isn't because 8 sucks but because the market and people's households are already saturated by iOS and android devices.
    Apple laughs in your face and points to their 75 million iOS units sold in Q1 2013. Doesn't seem very saturated to them! Almost like they're selling what people want to buy! And that was a quarter that Windows 8 and Microsoft had tablets of all types on the market, including convertibles.

    But no.. Microsoft getting their lunch eaten is obviously because 8 and the modern interface doesn't suck :P.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Windows 8.1 first look: Finally, Windows the way you want
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