Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows XP diehards: Can you survive April 2014 deadline?

  1. #31


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    @Lazure. No, you can't just download the ISO and plug in the key because when you go to activate an OEM it tells you it's already installed on an existing machine. At least that's the message I got when I tried it, even after saying it was being re-installed on the same machine. And they actually blacked my serial key. I had to phone M$ Australia to get it sorted; and that was quite an experience.

    And no, sluggish performance has not been an issue. I do acknowledge that excess RAM can potentially slow machines. But I like experimenting to find things out from hands on experience, related to the type of work I'm dong. Obviously hyper-threading is only helpful if the programs you're working with are compatible with it, etec, etec.

    I don't have any formal qualification with PC technology, but I am a graduate Electronic Engineer, and just like tinkering. I guess I'm a bit Neanderthal in the sense that I usually read the instruction manual after everything else has failed. And I also admit that attitude can occasionally have dire consequences.

    Anyhoo, the amount of RAM was incidental to the main point of my post in relation to Vista, which was to show that it is a very respectable, solid OS if installed on the right hardware, especially SATA3 SSD HD; good graphics and adequate RAM. And can be justifiably used as a flagship. My rule of thumb with RAM is that it's better to have too much than too little. And it's so cheap it doesn't matter.

    Edit:
    Incidentally, the machine that has Vista on it was not custom built for Vista. I originally had Win7 Ult 64bit on it. When I upgraded Win7 to a high end machine, I put Vista on the old Win7 rig and never even thought about reducing the RAM. With Win8, I built an entirely new rig.
    Last edited by Mustang; 08 Jun 2013 at 21:40.

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  2. #32


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    RAM Drive


    More than 4 GB of RAM isn't a problem with 32 bit operating systems in any case.

    On a PC with 8 GB of RAM:
    • Simply allocate the "excess" 4 GB to a RAM drive
    • Redirect:
      • The Page File to it
      • The Temp folders to it
      • The browser cache to it


    RAM outperforms HDDs and SSDs.

    Drivers are problematic, but I keep copies of my downloaded drivers.

    Since ~37% of the World's desktop machines still run XP, I suspect that peripheral manufacturers will have to "play nice" for a little while longer.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #33


    Posts : 149
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64-Bit, Ubuntu 13.04 64-Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    More than 4 GB of RAM isn't a problem with 32 bit operating systems in any case.

    On a PC with 8 GB of RAM:
    • Simply allocate the "excess" 4 GB to a RAM drive
    • Redirect:
      • The Page File to it
      • The Temp folders to it
      • The browser cache to it


    RAM outperforms HDDs and SSDs.

    Drivers are problematic, but I keep copies of my downloaded drivers.

    Since ~37% of the World's desktop machines still run XP, I suspect that peripheral manufacturers will have to "play nice" for a little while longer.
    So you're saying you're one of the people who uses XP on a modern computer where it doesn't belong?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #34


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by Lazure View Post
    So you're saying you're one of the people who uses XP on a modern computer where it doesn't belong?
    I totally agree it is a waste of time and effort to put XP on modern hardware.

    At one point I had XP Pro, Vista Ult and Win7 Ult all running on the same machine. But to even get XP to load I had to create an nLite disk with SATA drivers and modify the hard disk configuration in the BIOS to IDE instead of AHCI.

    Acronis backup images for Vista & Win7 would only reload with BIOS set to AHCI, and XP only with it set to IDE. It was a pain in the butt and limited the performance of the other two OSs. Eventually I just ran it as a VM.
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  5. #35


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post

    This is something MS and the fanbois can't seem to grasp, that it's perfectly possible to use a computer productively without internet access. In fact, millions of people compute that way every day, and not all of them in 3rd-world countries.


    Wenda.
    Tell this to the general public and see what the reaction to that will be.
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  6. #36


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post

    This is something MS and the fanbois can't seem to grasp, that it's perfectly possible to use a computer productively without internet access. In fact, millions of people compute that way every day, and not all of them in 3rd-world countries.


    Wenda.
    Tell this to the general public and see what the reaction to that will be.


    You mean it's not possible to be productive on a computer without internet access?

    I was perfectly productive for the first 20+ years of my computing life, with no internet whatsoever.

    Are you suggesting that I imagined it all?

    The internet is but an aspect of computing, not the reason it exists.

    Sure, it's nice to have, but it's far from being essential.

    And anyone who thinks it is, has been conned or is very naive.


    Wenda.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #37


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    For an operating system that no one really cared for, didn't really want to bother with, and was going to be pushed aside for vista (considering if it came out in 2003 versus four years too late) xp is just something else. It's an awkward beast that people still like. Someone once told me that they thought Windows xp was the latest "thing" at the moment. That person is of about 68 years of age, and this was last summer ago...

    Anyways, there are certain legit circumstances where xp has to be used one way or another, such as VERY specific hardware like a computer operated machine lathe. Drivers were built for xp and not later and can't work in compatibility mode in newer versions. OK. Some software can't work anywhere else other than xp, but that is where the power of virtualization comes in. Windows 7 Pro and Ultimate had xp mode to run that software, which is probably a good reason why 7 was adopted pretty well in the enterprise space. 8 doesn't for some reason...other than Hyper-V.

    But to use it in a space such as the medical field, in hospitals, dental offices, etc ESPECIALLY here in the US where there is a mandated shift from using cumbersome paper forms for patients for a faster, cleaner, digital format to be used on a PC or tablet PC or other device, Windows xp just can't be used for those purposes all that well. It's just not ideal. When xp was released, it was tweaked to better adapt to digital media storage when that first started to happen way back when. vista was going to have MUCH better capabilities like that, but wasn't until 7 that brought around those certain features. Let alone the fact that in that scenario of Windows xp being used in the medical field, THOSE PCs will be connected to the internet in one way or another. Not all of them can be, but many will be.

    This is also disregarding the fact that instead of having third party software developers focus on newer coding methods for Windows 7 and 8, they have to question whether or not should they develop for Windows xp. Which oddly enough, there isn't even a consideration for vista but this is obvious as to why not. If they develop for xp, they have to focus time and energy on SUCH an old platform that is slowly but surely dying off whereas they could focus full steam for newer platforms.

    I personally am not for Windows xp staying around mostly because it freaking f'ed everything up at Microsoft when Longhorn was in development. It came a year after 2000, to mostly adapt around newer usages for the PC which at the time was digital media storage like photography, music and such; but it was mostly just a stopgap from Windows 2000/ME to vista. If it weren't for the GAPING security flaws in xp (I believe xp was hacked in about three weeks of being released if I remember correctly) that distracted the Windows division at the time from Longhorn development to xp fixing, things today would be VERY different. Windows vista might had actually come out in 2003 or even a year later, 7 would had been released when vista was, and we'd be at Windows 9.1 today with probably different feature sets, technologies, and PCs. So Windows xp, I give it a giant two finger gesture, a bad word, and irritable bowel syndrome. It's also such a PITA to try to repair/maintain xp era PCs. When people ask me to fix their PC that has xp, I will upgrade them to 7 and/or 8, whatever works best. I don't even want to try anymore to figure out issues on an operating system that doesn't have measures to keep itself in check (7 and 8, especially 8, have measures to keep the OS in peak performance whereas xp is just fat) and is just more effort than it's worth.
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  8. #38


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post

    This is something MS and the fanbois can't seem to grasp, that it's perfectly possible to use a computer productively without internet access. In fact, millions of people compute that way every day, and not all of them in 3rd-world countries.


    Wenda.
    Tell this to the general public and see what the reaction to that will be.


    You mean it's not possible to be productive on a computer without internet access?

    I was perfectly productive for the first 20+ years of my computing life, with no internet whatsoever.

    Are you suggesting that I imagined it all?

    The internet is but an aspect of computing, not the reason it exists.

    Sure, it's nice to have, but it's far from being essential.

    And anyone who thinks it is, has been conned or is very naive.


    Wenda.
    This the general public.

    Why do you think Windows 8 was designed the way it was? It wasn't JUST because to "push" people into Microsoftia, it was because the first thing people did when they started up Windows 7 was open up their web browser, and open 10 tabs at a time. The most important piece of software on WHATEVER internet capable device is obviously the web browser. You or I can't be here discussing this without the internet. I can't order specific O rings for my car without the internet.

    These days, to many people, the internet is needed to be productive. The enterprise sure as hell can't be productive without it. The reason why some have computers around is in fact, the internet.

    And no, I never said you can't be productive without the internet. I've gone many a time without an internet connective over the eyars and still did productive tasks. I don't manage my finances with the internet, but offline with Excel 2013, and save a copy to my SkyDrive just in case.

    Today isn't 20+ years ago. How people computed back then, like Office software and printers over typewriters, isn't the main focus of the PC. It's how fast your internet connection is, how fast your browser can render video, etc.
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  9. #39


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    Quite honestly, if people want to stick to XP, surely that's up to them. They have their reasons, whether we consider them valid or not.

    I certainly consider my reasons (posted above) to be perfectly reasonable and valid (tho one or two obviously don't). I also consider that I should not have to justify those reasons to anyone. I've chosen to here, as that's the topic, but really, does it matter so much what OS someone else uses? After all, they're not forcing you to.

    As I've stated, I collect operating systems as a part of my computing hobby. So no doubt I run systems that no-one in their right mind would use as their primary OS. So, I don't. But I do run them, and surely that's my choice? Not that of MS, or of some anonymous stranger on a forum/blog.

    If I wanted to run Windows 1.0, and it did what I needed, what business is it of anyone to tell me I can't? It doesn't impact on them in any way.

    We do not all compute the same way, we do not perform the same tasks. We do not all have the same equipment, level of expertise or interest. We do not have the same needs. We do not all have access to the internet. One size does not fit all, when it comes to computing. My needs are not yours, nor yours mine.


    Wenda.


    EDIT: I'd be curious to know just how much of the 'security issues' in XP were a direct result of the stunning ignorance of online security by Joe Public, and his reluctance to understand, install and use anti-virus and anti-malware programs? Quite a large percentage, I'd reckon.
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  10. #40


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    Quite honestly, if people want to stick to XP, surely that's up to them. They have their reasons, whether we consider them valid or not.

    I certainly consider my reasons (posted above) to be perfectly reasonable and valid (tho one or two obviously don't). I also consider that I should not have to justify those reasons to anyone. I've chosen to here, as that's the topic, but really, does it matter so much what OS someone else uses? After all, they're not forcing you to.

    As I've stated, I collect operating systems as a part of my computing hobby. So no doubt I run systems that no-one in their right mind would use as their primary OS. So, I don't. But I do run them, and surely that's my choice? Not that of MS, or of some anonymous stranger on a forum/blog.

    If I wanted to run Windows 1.0, and it did what I needed, what business is it of anyone to tell me I can't? It doesn't impact on them in any way.

    We do not all compute the same way, we do not perform the same tasks. We do not all have the same equipment, level of expertise or interest. We do not have the same needs. We do not all have access to the internet. One size does not fit all, when it comes to computing. My needs are not yours, nor yours mine.


    Wenda.


    EDIT: I'd be curious to know just how much of the 'security issues' in XP were a direct result of the stunning ignorance of online security by Joe Public, and his reluctance to understand, install and use anti-virus and anti-malware programs? Quite a large percentage, I'd reckon.
    IF, people have valid reasons to stay on xp, that's perfectly reasonable. If their reasons are more along the lines of, "They should make a better xp!" Then no...

    See, that's cool you collect operating systems. I don't have an .iso image of xp anymore ever since Windows 8 was in development. I have a few Windows Longhorn builds as THOSE are really interesting (and also quite shocking considering when one realizes Windows 8 is a modernize Longhorn) to poke around with. I have all the official release builds of Windows 8. I might start collecting ALL the Windows versions just to see the progress and design of them.

    And of course, I bet Joe Public is an ignorant street whore when it comes to online security. I've seen this personally, and just ask ANY IT admin about this. But I doubt that ignorance was the main direct or indirect reason for xp's security issues. There were SERIOUS, I mean, SERIOUS account security issues as well as online security issues in that release. I remember once I installed xp in a VM to virtualize a program, it was an SP2 image. So I had to update it, then update it to SP3, and then update it once more. All in all, I think there were well over 250 updates, JUST SECURITY UPDATES, maybe 50 performance related updates give or take. Even after SP3 which was basically just security updates, there were almost 90 security updates. If that was due to Joe Public, well damn! That is a whopper of ignorance right there!
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Windows XP diehards: Can you survive April 2014 deadline?
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