Sorry, bringing back the Start menu won't help Windows 8

There are plenty of legitimate concerns about the Windows 8 interface. But if you think the removal of the Start menu is the root cause of those problems, you're mistaken. See for yourself.

Sorry, but bringing back the Start menu won't help Windows 8 | ZDNet

For what it's worth I mainly agree with him...

I wouldn't bring back the Start Menu, but I'd definitely bring back the concept of a single Taskbar that was always visible across the whole OS.
 
I think he is missing the whole point. Nobody as far as I am aware is saying that you cannot use the phone GUI to do stuff on your computer.

The problem is that a lot of people do not like it, do not need it and do not want it. A touch interface is totally irrelevant for their needs.

What I would say is that bringing back the start menu and giving their customers a choice of their interface would help Windows 8.

Because then most of the grumbling, hate, negativity, endless arguments about the usefulness and suitability of Metro on the desktop would just disappear.

If Blue follows on from what the leaks show and offers only tweaks to Metro, this negative feedback is only going to get worse.

Microsoft can not just rely on the fact it has a monopoly. It needs to get it's customers back on board by offering them a product that suits their needs.
 
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He made it look so easy. But to do all those setup, pinning, etc... that's the annoying part. Esp for people who is struggling to catch up with basic computing. What happened to the words "user-friendly"? Why do I have to go through all those troubles of setting up???? It could have been easier.
Don't get me started with hot corners and charms bar. I know they work flawlessly on touchscreens. But hey, look, I've got 3 screens... when I run my cursor across my screens and accidentally hit corners... those stupid bars keep on popping up!
 

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I think he is missing the whole point. Nobody as far as I am aware is saying that you cannot use the phone GUI to do stuff on your computer.

Anyone who has actually used Windows Phone knows that there is a massive between the phone ui and the desktop ui.
 

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I think he is missing the whole point. Nobody as far as I am aware is saying that you cannot use the phone GUI to do stuff on your computer.

The problem is that a lot of people do not like it, do not need it and do not want it. A touch interface is totally irrelevant for their needs.

What I would say is that bringing back the start menu and giving their customers a choice of their interface would help Windows 8.

Because then most of the grumbling, hate, negativity, endless arguments about the usefulness and suitability of Metro on the desktop would just disappear.

If Blue follows on from what the leaks show and offers only tweaks to Metro, this negative feedback is only going to get worse.

Microsoft can not just rely on the fact it has a monopoly. It needs to get it's customers back on board by offering them a product that suits their needs.

Hopefully somebody will pass your post on to Miss Julie. MS staff read these.
 

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YMMV

Don't get me started with hot corners and charms bar. I know they work flawlessly on touchscreens.

I had the opposite experience, when I was playing with a HP all-in-one PC in a store.

I could touch tiles and I could even hit the little "x" on desktop programs and they worked as expected.

No matter what mystical gestures I made, or symbols I drew, the pop-out controls would not appear.
So much for intuitive (and I knew those invisible pop-out items existed).

Ironically, the wireless mouse and keyboard worked perfectly. :confused:
 

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I think he is missing the whole point. Nobody as far as I am aware is saying that you cannot use the phone GUI to do stuff on your computer.

The problem is that a lot of people do not like it, do not need it and do not want it. A touch interface is totally irrelevant for their needs.

What I would say is that bringing back the start menu and giving their customers a choice of their interface would help Windows 8.

Because then most of the grumbling, hate, negativity, endless arguments about the usefulness and suitability of Metro on the desktop would just disappear.

If Blue follows on from what the leaks show and offers only tweaks to Metro, this negative feedback is only going to get worse.

Microsoft can not just rely on the fact it has a monopoly. It needs to get it's customers back on board by offering them a product that suits their needs.

Hopefully somebody will pass your post on to Miss Julie. MS staff read these.

How do you know?
 

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Or...

Just literally pin EVERYTHING from the start menu into the File Explorer jumplist and pin Control Panel to the Taskbar. The need for the start menu is irrelevant minus the search bar and All Programs to find a program you rarely use.

I know this, because that's what I did with my setup and EVERY install of Windows 7 I did. Pinned EVERYTHING useful and relevant to the Taskbar, cleaned up the All Programs list, start menu becomes a vestigial piece of UI.
 

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It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.
 

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Julie said so.

I think he is missing the whole point. Nobody as far as I am aware is saying that you cannot use the phone GUI to do stuff on your computer.

The problem is that a lot of people do not like it, do not need it and do not want it. A touch interface is totally irrelevant for their needs.

What I would say is that bringing back the start menu and giving their customers a choice of their interface would help Windows 8.

Because then most of the grumbling, hate, negativity, endless arguments about the usefulness and suitability of Metro on the desktop would just disappear.

If Blue follows on from what the leaks show and offers only tweaks to Metro, this negative feedback is only going to get worse.

Microsoft can not just rely on the fact it has a monopoly. It needs to get it's customers back on board by offering them a product that suits their needs.

Hopefully somebody will pass your post on to Miss Julie. MS staff read these.

How do you know?
 

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    PC/Desktop
It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.

And how many times does that happen that safe mode is needed?
 

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    ASUS R9 270
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    1440x900
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    x2 3 TB Toshibas
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    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
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    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
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    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.

And how many times does that happen that safe mode is needed?

If you are only sending emails and hanging-out on Farce-book, you should hardly ever need it.

But if you (for example) test and review a lot of programs, drivers etc, or if you like playing around
in the 'guts' of your hardware and software, then you will need it, and on a fairly regular basis
at that. It's very dependent on how you compute, and what you actually do.

Hiding it wasn't very bright, its total removal would border on foolhardiness.

As for the Start menu, I'm not really worried about whether they reintroduce it, I actually prefer
Classic Shell to MS' offering. But I do want to see Aero returned in full. I couldn't care less about
battery life, and shouldn't have to suffer to cater for those who do. They should be able to turn it
off if they wish, but I should not have to make sacrifices in order to cater to the wants and wishes
of the tablet/phone 'mob'.

Yet another option that should not have been 'dumbed-down', hidden or removed, IMO.


Wenda.
 
Last edited:

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It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.
I had to do something with a new (and quite fast) Windows 7 laptop at work, and was trying to get it into Safe Mode. And I had to guess what is the correct exact moment to press F8, or just hammer out F8-F8-F8-F8-F8... either way it was a matter of luck and several times I missed it and it booted into normal Windows.

In Windows 8, I can do a Shift-Restart from the lock/ login screen (you don't even need to login) and I know it will get me to the Advanced Startup menu.

I take your point about it being harder when the OS isn't working; although with new hardware, hitting F8 would be an issue anyway. I think Windows 8 does try to detect when it hasn't started properly a few times, there do seem to be some people who get stuck in a Repair loop that there's no way out of.
 

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It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.

And how many times does that happen that safe mode is needed?

If you are only sending emails and hanging-out on Farce-book, you should hardly ever need it.

But if you (for example) test and review a lot of programs, drivers etc, or if you like playing around
in the 'guts' of your hardware and software, then you will need it, and on a fairly regular basis
at that. It's very dependent on how you compute, and what you actually do.

Hiding it wasn't very bright, its total removal would border on foolhardiness.

As for the Start menu, I'm not really worried about whether they reintroduce it, I actually prefer
Classic Shell to MS' offering. But I do want to see Aero returned in full. I couldn't care less about
battery life, and shouldn't have to suffer to cater for those who do. They should be able to turn it
off if they wish, but I should not have to make sacrifices in order to cater to the wants and wishes
of the tablet/phone 'mob'.

Yet another option that should not have been 'dumbed-down', hidden or removed, IMO.


Wenda.

I do that but have the intelligence to use a VM to test software with BEFORE installing on my main system. And even then, that would need to be some serious lower level file tampering that software does to cause safe mode to be needed. That's a rarity. But if this is video drivers, NVIDIA's in my case I've seen with Windows 8, then maybe but again, pretty rare.

And then considering that there is such a niche group of people who do that, it wouldn't make sense to have EVERY new Windows 8 PC have to emulate traditional BIOS and sacrifice near instant start ups so someone can possibly try to enter safe mode after asking on a forum like this to how to get to it.

Aero is design taste. Not everyone likes it, much like the metro design on Windows. I don't think they should bring it back because once you hit the Start Screen, you WILL get the feeling of OS duality of old and new. You have shiny, transparent, 3D lighting perspective smashed with clean, crisp, and modern design. That is I bet the WHOLE reason why Aero was removed, they gave a true technical reason but honestly, Aero looks GOD awful with the rest of the UI from the Desktop Help files, to Office 2013, to the Start Screen and to the apps and everything else in between. Windows isn't based around the very small border around an open window. It is not. It is idiotic to have a product called Windows to showcase off what goes AROUND the window versus what is actual within it.
 

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It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.
I had to do something with a new (and quite fast) Windows 7 laptop at work, and was trying to get it into Safe Mode. And I had to guess what is the correct exact moment to press F8, or just hammer out F8-F8-F8-F8-F8... either way it was a matter of luck and several times I missed it and it booted into normal Windows.

In Windows 8, I can do a Shift-Restart from the lock/ login screen (you don't even need to login) and I know it will get me to the Advanced Startup menu.

I take your point about it being harder when the OS isn't working; although with new hardware, hitting F8 would be an issue anyway. I think Windows 8 does try to detect when it hasn't started properly a few times, there do seem to be some people who get stuck in a Repair loop that there's no way out of.

There I think literally milliseconds of time between the system firmware and Windows boot to hit F8.

You can hit Shift and Restart, you can go into PC Settings to go into Advanced Boot mode to get into Safe Mode, you can even trigger Automatic Repair at boot up which may direct you to Advanced Boot settings. I think you can even change msconfig settings to enter safe mode.
 

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    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
There I think literally milliseconds of time between the system firmware and Windows boot to hit F8.

I ran across this little gem somewhere: C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /r /o /f /t 00 and have it as a shortcut on the desktop should the need arise.

-jeff
 

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Coke Robot wrote:
I do that but have the intelligence to use a VM to test software with BEFORE installing on my main system.

I do hope that you are not implying that I do not. :confused::shock:

I do, and currently have quite a bit going on in VM's. I've used Virtual-Box for this purpose for quite some time now.

But others are not you, or me, and they do need Safe Mode considerably more often than you suggest. And it can
be essential when you're tasked with fixing someone else's machine.

As for Aero, I think we'll just have to 'agree to disagree' there. I like it, and want it back, but it's not worth
arguing over it here.

NB: This is not an attack, just a comment. :D;)

Cheers!


Wenda.
 

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    Full 101-key
    Mouse
    USB cordless.
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    Windows Defender, MalwareBytes Pro.
    Other Info
    BD-ROM drive.
There I think literally milliseconds of time between the system firmware and Windows boot to hit F8.

I ran across this little gem somewhere: C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /r /o /f /t 00 and have it as a shortcut on the desktop should the need arise.

-jeff

that actually worked but it took a quite a few click to get to the setting of f8 safe mode ,it offers a refresh and many other options first
 

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    updated enterprise apr 2/14
That is I bet the WHOLE reason why Aero was removed, they gave a true technical reason but

They never gave the true technical reason, just market speak.

The True technical reason is that Microsoft has a vision of one interface for all devices. To accomplish that the interface has to work on Celeron Tablets with integrated graphics, while using the least amount of power possible.

There is no reason they could not have left the Aero theme available for those who wish to use it on Desktop systems, except that a lot of people would do so and they would no longer have their vision of one interface. Same reasoning goes with the removal of the start menu.

Microsoft stated that Aero was cheesy and outdated. It is nothing of the sort. These are just terms thought up (probably by a PR company) to explain to their customers why the interface on the Windows desktop was downgraded.
 

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    Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
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    PSU
    Corsair HX1050
    Case
    Lian Li Diamond Series PC-Z70 Full Tower, Black
    Cooling
    Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Revolution
    Internet Speed
    20mbs
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Avast Free and Malwarebytes Anti-Malware Pro
    Other Info
    Win 8.1.1 and Office 2013 via Virtualbox
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