Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Sorry, bringing back the Start menu won't help Windows 8

  1. #11


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by XweAponX View Post
    It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.
    And how many times does that happen that safe mode is needed?

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  2. #12


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    Julie said so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post

    Hopefully somebody will pass your post on to Miss Julie. MS staff read these.
    How do you know?
    She said they read things on Eight Forums?
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  3. #13


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XweAponX View Post
    It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.
    And how many times does that happen that safe mode is needed?
    If you are only sending emails and hanging-out on Farce-book, you should hardly ever need it.

    But if you (for example) test and review a lot of programs, drivers etc, or if you like playing around
    in the 'guts' of your hardware and software, then you will need it, and on a fairly regular basis
    at that. It's very dependent on how you compute, and what you actually do.

    Hiding it wasn't very bright, its total removal would border on foolhardiness.

    As for the Start menu, I'm not really worried about whether they reintroduce it, I actually prefer
    Classic Shell to MS' offering. But I do want to see Aero returned in full. I couldn't care less about
    battery life, and shouldn't have to suffer to cater for those who do. They should be able to turn it
    off if they wish, but I should not have to make sacrifices in order to cater to the wants and wishes
    of the tablet/phone 'mob'.

    Yet another option that should not have been 'dumbed-down', hidden or removed, IMO.


    Wenda.
    Last edited by Wenda; 26 May 2013 at 18:05.
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  4. #14


    Posts : 959
    Windows 8.1, 10


    Quote Originally Posted by XweAponX View Post
    It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.
    I had to do something with a new (and quite fast) Windows 7 laptop at work, and was trying to get it into Safe Mode. And I had to guess what is the correct exact moment to press F8, or just hammer out F8-F8-F8-F8-F8... either way it was a matter of luck and several times I missed it and it booted into normal Windows.

    In Windows 8, I can do a Shift-Restart from the lock/ login screen (you don't even need to login) and I know it will get me to the Advanced Startup menu.

    I take your point about it being harder when the OS isn't working; although with new hardware, hitting F8 would be an issue anyway. I think Windows 8 does try to detect when it hasn't started properly a few times, there do seem to be some people who get stuck in a Repair loop that there's no way out of.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XweAponX View Post
    It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.
    And how many times does that happen that safe mode is needed?
    If you are only sending emails and hanging-out on Farce-book, you should hardly ever need it.

    But if you (for example) test and review a lot of programs, drivers etc, or if you like playing around
    in the 'guts' of your hardware and software, then you will need it, and on a fairly regular basis
    at that. It's very dependent on how you compute, and what you actually do.

    Hiding it wasn't very bright, its total removal would border on foolhardiness.

    As for the Start menu, I'm not really worried about whether they reintroduce it, I actually prefer
    Classic Shell to MS' offering. But I do want to see Aero returned in full. I couldn't care less about
    battery life, and shouldn't have to suffer to cater for those who do. They should be able to turn it
    off if they wish, but I should not have to make sacrifices in order to cater to the wants and wishes
    of the tablet/phone 'mob'.

    Yet another option that should not have been 'dumbed-down', hidden or removed, IMO.


    Wenda.
    I do that but have the intelligence to use a VM to test software with BEFORE installing on my main system. And even then, that would need to be some serious lower level file tampering that software does to cause safe mode to be needed. That's a rarity. But if this is video drivers, NVIDIA's in my case I've seen with Windows 8, then maybe but again, pretty rare.

    And then considering that there is such a niche group of people who do that, it wouldn't make sense to have EVERY new Windows 8 PC have to emulate traditional BIOS and sacrifice near instant start ups so someone can possibly try to enter safe mode after asking on a forum like this to how to get to it.

    Aero is design taste. Not everyone likes it, much like the metro design on Windows. I don't think they should bring it back because once you hit the Start Screen, you WILL get the feeling of OS duality of old and new. You have shiny, transparent, 3D lighting perspective smashed with clean, crisp, and modern design. That is I bet the WHOLE reason why Aero was removed, they gave a true technical reason but honestly, Aero looks GOD awful with the rest of the UI from the Desktop Help files, to Office 2013, to the Start Screen and to the apps and everything else in between. Windows isn't based around the very small border around an open window. It is not. It is idiotic to have a product called Windows to showcase off what goes AROUND the window versus what is actual within it.
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  6. #16


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XweAponX View Post
    It's not JUST the missing Start Menu - It's the hiding of "Safe Mode" under layers of forced-reboots you must do to get to it - Not to mention, if the OS is not working perfectly, you cannot get to any of those areas.
    I had to do something with a new (and quite fast) Windows 7 laptop at work, and was trying to get it into Safe Mode. And I had to guess what is the correct exact moment to press F8, or just hammer out F8-F8-F8-F8-F8... either way it was a matter of luck and several times I missed it and it booted into normal Windows.

    In Windows 8, I can do a Shift-Restart from the lock/ login screen (you don't even need to login) and I know it will get me to the Advanced Startup menu.

    I take your point about it being harder when the OS isn't working; although with new hardware, hitting F8 would be an issue anyway. I think Windows 8 does try to detect when it hasn't started properly a few times, there do seem to be some people who get stuck in a Repair loop that there's no way out of.
    There I think literally milliseconds of time between the system firmware and Windows boot to hit F8.

    You can hit Shift and Restart, you can go into PC Settings to go into Advanced Boot mode to get into Safe Mode, you can even trigger Automatic Repair at boot up which may direct you to Advanced Boot settings. I think you can even change msconfig settings to enter safe mode.
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  7. #17


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    There I think literally milliseconds of time between the system firmware and Windows boot to hit F8.
    I ran across this little gem somewhere: C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /r /o /f /t 00 and have it as a shortcut on the desktop should the need arise.

    -jeff
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  8. #18


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    Coke Robot wrote:
    I do that but have the intelligence to use a VM to test software with BEFORE installing on my main system.
    I do hope that you are not implying that I do not.

    I do, and currently have quite a bit going on in VM's. I've used Virtual-Box for this purpose for quite some time now.

    But others are not you, or me, and they do need Safe Mode considerably more often than you suggest. And it can
    be essential when you're tasked with fixing someone else's machine.

    As for Aero, I think we'll just have to 'agree to disagree' there. I like it, and want it back, but it's not worth
    arguing over it here.

    NB: This is not an attack, just a comment.

    Cheers!


    Wenda.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #19


    Posts : 2,627
    win8.1.1 enterprise


    Quote Originally Posted by Jf1450 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    There I think literally milliseconds of time between the system firmware and Windows boot to hit F8.
    I ran across this little gem somewhere: C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /r /o /f /t 00 and have it as a shortcut on the desktop should the need arise.

    -jeff
    that actually worked but it took a quite a few click to get to the setting of f8 safe mode ,it offers a refresh and many other options first
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  10. #20


    New Zealand
    Posts : 91
    Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    That is I bet the WHOLE reason why Aero was removed, they gave a true technical reason but
    They never gave the true technical reason, just market speak.

    The True technical reason is that Microsoft has a vision of one interface for all devices. To accomplish that the interface has to work on Celeron Tablets with integrated graphics, while using the least amount of power possible.

    There is no reason they could not have left the Aero theme available for those who wish to use it on Desktop systems, except that a lot of people would do so and they would no longer have their vision of one interface. Same reasoning goes with the removal of the start menu.

    Microsoft stated that Aero was cheesy and outdated. It is nothing of the sort. These are just terms thought up (probably by a PR company) to explain to their customers why the interface on the Windows desktop was downgraded.
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Sorry, bringing back the Start menu won't help Windows 8
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