Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8's learning curve to be addressed

  1. #61


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    The type is a bit big.

    MS might be selectively deaf, but they are not blind.

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  2. #62


    USA
    Posts : 689
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by legacy7955 View Post

    It's amazing to think that a cola company in the early 80's (Coca Cola Company) took the hint about their iconic product and are still in business as a result. Perhaps today the same wouldn't be true..Why? The rise of MBAs, and the belief by modern day executives that they can force the customer to bend to THEIR needs. LOL....


    I seriously believe that if MS refuses to ACTUALLY address the legitimate and SERIOUS gripes about Windows 8 that MS may become a footnote in history.
    A bit dramatic don't you think?

    And let's be realistic here, Microsoft isn't going away any sooner than any other Major software company out there. They may piss off a few customers, but we'll still be drinking the coke
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  3. #63


    Posts : 231
    Windows 8.1 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    If MS could create decent Help files and Tutorials, then there wouldn't be a plethora of sites like VistaForums, SevenForums and EightForums (just to name 3).
    Thats it right there! Is anybody willing to state that Windows Help files/tutorials are easier to follow than those here? Any takers?
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  4. #64


    Posts : 959
    Windows 8.1, 10


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    If you go to the Settings Charm, Help is literally there.
    Well Yes and No. It's there if you open up the Settings Charm from the Start Screen, but if you're in Reader (as per example above) you bring up the Settings Charm and there's no Help visible there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Problem is, no one knows it's there and no one really uses it.
    Agreed, but I think that's mainly because Microsoft have been so hopeless about making Help visible and linking into it from applications.

    What was so wrong with the word "Help" (or even a "?") being displayed on a screen where users could see it?

    Or the old-school F1 keyboard shortcut? Plenty of other shortcuts work in Metro (Ctrl-P is another answer to the printing question) so why not F1?

    Metro is a big change, so Microsoft should have made Help better, not much worse.
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  5. #65


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    What was so wrong with the word "Help" (or even a "?")
    That is legacy, it would be holding back "progress". Luddites like you should be forcibly dragged into the 18th century, etc.........
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  6. #66


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    If you go to the Settings Charm, Help is literally there.
    Well Yes and No. It's there if you open up the Settings Charm from the Start Screen, but if you're in Reader (as per example above) you bring up the Settings Charm and there's no Help visible there.
    Ok. Not sure why Help is not in Reader for it's in every other app that I know of. If not Help it will have Support which is a link to the developer's web site. I did find this for Reader: Windows Reader: Frequently asked questions - Microsoft Windows Help Admittedly I found it in an odd place via the Charms Bar, but I found it. It took me all of two minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Problem is, no one knows it's there and no one really uses it.
    Agreed, but I think that's mainly because Microsoft have been so hopeless about making Help visible and linking into it from applications.

    What was so wrong with the word "Help" (or even a "?") being displayed on a screen where users could see it?

    Or the old-school F1 keyboard shortcut? Plenty of other shortcuts work in Metro (Ctrl-P is another answer to the printing question) so why not F1?

    Metro is a big change, so Microsoft should have made Help better, not much worse.
    Modern/Metro is a big change. Perhaps too large a change for most people to accept. It all depends on the person I suppose. Fear and pride are usually the obstacles. I also wondered why F1 is not the default shortcut key for Store apps Help as for Win32 desktop programs. However, WinKey/F1 is the overall Help key when anywhere in 8 which I think is excellent. This is just the same as past OSs.

    Perhaps MS should have created a startup program like "Getting Started" or "What's New" I think they were called in Vista and 7. I used them for awhile then shut them off to open at start after I learned all the changes posted in them. Perhaps they could do better in the Help department, but reading members' posts here it doesn't look as if too many people use the help files anyway. Perhaps it's like the Start Menu where less and less users were using it so they abandoned it for something better.
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  7. #67


    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    You guys want a real learning curve, if so then here is one: Determine all the build up points, the size of the blocks, the size of the soft caps, and all the mathematical block lay outs using a transit in a graving dock. Oh, the ship you will be doing the work up for is USN Carrier. Those are just the easy part of dry docking a carrier for work up.

    And, yes this is one of the things I enjoyed doing for a living.
    Sounds like a fulfilling career, Lee. A lot of Trig I would imagine.

    Send me the blueprints and the Help files. Sooner or later I'll figure it out. It will take me years longer, but I'll eventually get it.
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  8. #68


    Quote Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    And just because a person is a high ranking official that doesn't make them an expert in all things.
    Never said they had to be an expert in all things, just know some basics of a tool they're using or know where to find help easily when they're lost. I probably know more about computers and OSs than the average user, but I don't consider myself to be the savviest either. I do know one thing for sure > I know where the help files are, know how to read, and follow instructions.

    Perhaps I'm just too "Old School".
    I'm as old school as you can get, and I still wouldn't criticize someone for not using the help files on a PC because, in my opinion, they aren't as easy to read or understand, especially if you aren't a computer "geek" as we are.

    And regardless what you and I think, computers can be daunting, and intimidating, especially to those with just has basic knowledge. I see this all the time in my computer classes.

    And just because you and I have knowledge doesn't mean everyone else does. What if you went to a doctor for an illness and he said - "couldn't you have looked that up on the internet instead of wasting my time? That's a pretty common sense illness you have there."

    To him, it's common sense, to you and I...

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
    Agree. I've been in computers since 1998 and in all that time I may have looked at help files maybe 4 or 5 times.
    Then did you have a private tutor to teach you how to use an OS? You had to start somehow.
    The tutor I had was trial and error + reading and questioning. What I didn't utilize, and no one pushed, was the help files. That's me.

    However I do recognize that not everyone is interested in computers beyond using them. Just as I'm not interested in medicine beyond keeping myself healthy.

    My two cents.
    I can remember my twenty-something son calling me once asking if I could come over to help him put together a furniture kit for he said he was having trouble. I asked him if it came with instructions. Yes. I asked him if he was reading the instructions. No. I know he knows how to use basic tools. I literally hung up on him. I didn't raise my kids to be dependent that way. He got my gist and did get the thing assembled via the instructions. Basically he just wanted me to do the work.

    I don't think it to be fair comparing a complex human biological body created by nature to a computer created by man. Our brains alone are far more complex than any computer will probably ever be. Medical science has come far, but has a long way to go so far as understanding it, let alone putting it in a position for it to cure itself. I took biology in High School where I learned the basics. Not really interested all that much in human or other anatomy. I do like to read up on new discoveries like the Human Genome project. IMO People shouldn't be intimidated by a machine. If man built it, then another can understand it. Besides, I can't practice medicine, but I can build and use a computer. I can fix others' machines as well.

    At first I was reading the Help files just to learn navigation and how to learn programs, especially Office suite. Then I got into customizing the system so far as desktop looks, Taskbar, fonts, etc. I kept getting deeper as to how the computer hardware worked. I soon learned how to format a disk and load OSs. This all happened because I was enthusiastic on the subject. No, I don't expect everyone to know computers as well as we do, but I should think a user should know at least where to get help with navigation and learn simple things like emailing, printing, sharing, and so on.
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  9. #69


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post

    Never said they had to be an expert in all things, just know some basics of a tool they're using or know where to find help easily when they're lost. I probably know more about computers and OSs than the average user, but I don't consider myself to be the savviest either. I do know one thing for sure > I know where the help files are, know how to read, and follow instructions.

    Perhaps I'm just too "Old School".
    I'm as old school as you can get, and I still wouldn't criticize someone for not using the help files on a PC because, in my opinion, they aren't as easy to read or understand, especially if you aren't a computer "geek" as we are.

    And regardless what you and I think, computers can be daunting, and intimidating, especially to those with just has basic knowledge. I see this all the time in my computer classes.

    And just because you and I have knowledge doesn't mean everyone else does. What if you went to a doctor for an illness and he said - "couldn't you have looked that up on the internet instead of wasting my time? That's a pretty common sense illness you have there."

    To him, it's common sense, to you and I...

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post

    Then did you have a private tutor to teach you how to use an OS? You had to start somehow.
    The tutor I had was trial and error + reading and questioning. What I didn't utilize, and no one pushed, was the help files. That's me.

    However I do recognize that not everyone is interested in computers beyond using them. Just as I'm not interested in medicine beyond keeping myself healthy.

    My two cents.
    I can remember my twenty-something son calling me once asking if I could come over to help him put together a furniture kit for he said he was having trouble. I asked him if it came with instructions. Yes. I asked him if he was reading the instructions. No. I know he knows how to use basic tools. I literally hung up on him. I didn't raise my kids to be dependent that way. He got my gist and did get the thing assembled via the instructions. Basically he just wanted me to do the work.

    I don't think it to be fair comparing a complex human biological body created by nature to a computer created by man. Our brains alone are far more complex than any computer will probably ever be. Medical science has come far, but has a long way to go so far as understanding it, let alone putting it in a position for it to cure itself. I took biology in High School where I learned the basics. Not really interested all that much in human or other anatomy. I do like to read up on new discoveries like the Human Genome project. IMO People shouldn't be intimidated by a machine. If man built it, then another can understand it. Besides, I can't practice medicine, but I can build and use a computer. I can fix others' machines as well.

    At first I was reading the Help files just to learn navigation and how to learn programs, especially Office suite. Then I got into customizing the system so far as desktop looks, Taskbar, fonts, etc. I kept getting deeper as to how the computer hardware worked. I soon learned how to format a disk and load OSs. This all happened because I was enthusiastic on the subject. No, I don't expect everyone to know computers as well as we do, but I should think a user should know at least where to get help with navigation and learn simple things like emailing, printing, sharing, and so on.
    Actually, it's predicted by Moore's law that there will be a CPU that meets the human brain's computational power this century, I think it was roughly around 2040? Think Star Trek Computer...
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  10. #70


    Help files, lol.
    Microsoft is certainly encouraging its use. There is no longer an option to install help files onto your PC. It lives in the cloud. No internet access? Well, you are SOL.

    They also often redirect to their community help site which is downright laughable at times. Sometimes I feel like the low quality answers there just get in my way when I'm googling a problem. A lot of the contributors appear to be based out of India and judging by the answers posted, they don't even read the questions asked. They post some non-related solution and call it a day and I'm just like, wtf?? Why post anything at all? Why raise my hopes and then dash it? Why pollute my search results?

    Ugh, rant over. Help files should definitely not be in "the cloud". Just have the client laptop help file mirror whatever updates they may have, is that so hard?
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Windows 8's learning curve to be addressed
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