Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Do consumers really want touchscreen PCs? (Because I don't

  1. #61


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    LOL, some nice posts in this thread.

    But if the mouse goes I go too... I'm the guy from the cursor thread.
    The captain should sink with its ship.

    Can't believe there are mouse haters among us...
    Coke forgot the Win8 pointers I've made?
    Custom Cursors

    Cheers!

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  2. #62


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post

    OMG! Is this the way your going to go out of this world?! Kicking and screaming all the way?!!....I mean Geez?!!....Why don't they see things my way?!! You too, SIW(I don't know you)2. It is what it is!!!......PERIOD!!! I mean get a grip!!! TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING.....Your desktop is OBSOLETE!!! Gone! Nil! Obsolete! Bye bye! Adiós! See ya! Will be gone forever! No return! No coming back!
    Your rant is quite hypocritical. But that's nothing unusual from you and others that keep calling those who don't like the MPI and support the view that there should be options, as Luddites and the like.

    I, nor anyone else, is suggesting that things should be done my way, but merely voicing a view that options should be provided. Options that in no way affect Windows 8, but enhance the user experience of those who work on the desktop.

    Your post is akin to a childish tantrum, emotional and full of shouting and ranting.
    You're correct. My sincere apology for my post. I'm sorry. No excuse, but I wrote that after I came home last night after having a bit too many. Also having a "bit of differences" with the little lady so I took my frustration out on you two.

    I read the article, found it to be interesting, and posted. I thought I simply posted my desires to look into touch and my point of view. In no way did I state touch is for everyone nor forced my opinion on anyone.

    Perhaps I'm a oddball user in that I sit close to my monitor. I've been a keyboard shortcut keys user for quite some time and I've always disliked the mouse. That's me as an individual as we all are.

    I just received a call from my daughter. She's being flooded out here in the Fox River Valley. I'll have to finish this later.

    The main objective was to apologize. Please forgive me. Gotta go....
    OK. I'm back to finish. Here's what my daughter and I are dealing with. She lives on a channel off the Fox River which is about 3-1/2 feet above flood stage. It's supposed to crest by Sunday morning then start to recede. Sure the hell hope so.

    Attachment 20579

    The first time I saw touch was what? 20 years ago? It was a touch screen cash register at a restaurant/bar. All based on panes for ordering. Then the order shows up on a monitor in the kitchen. Then I saw them at airports. Phones and pads. ATMs. Internet juke boxes have touch navigation now. We're seeing it more and more.

    Anywho, I've been wanting to get a second monitor anyway, so I thought for a little more money I'd get a touch one to learn and try it. If it doesn't work out I'll continue to have dual monitors. I can justify that.

    I never said I'd get rid of my keyboard. Just the mouse. I use the mouse mostly in a browser to navigate, for there are not too many keyboard shortcuts. One can tab around a little. Pushing WinKey/F4 gets a History/Favorites drop down menu which is a little help. One can delete things there also. To me the mouse is not a good navigational tool. Yes, I know I could get one of those Logitech mice and may eventually do that.

    We all use different devices, including tower PC, with different peripherals, using different software to accomplish different tasks. We are all individuals with different needs. Everyone has to find their own way. Touch may work for some and not others. It may not work at all for others. I understand all that. I'll be experimenting.

    Thanks for your input. Very interesting thread you all made it.
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  3. #63


    Do you have this one for touch screen, Hopachi?

    Attachment 20581
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  4. #64


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by fourthofjuly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fourthofjuly View Post
    Coke, do you know how to use PDS Fameworks, Autodesk Revit, SmartPlant, Bentley Structural Modeler, Microstation and AutoCAD? I do.All of them. Have you even heard about data point, tentative point and accept button? I guess you don't because you want the mouse out of the equation.

    High rise towers, dams, highwayss, subway systems and the roof you are sleeping in are NOT designed using drag and drop templates and graphic libraries. They are meticulously designed, connections after connections with extreme precision and accuracy. The world is not built by swiping and hand gestures. Halo is a "cartoons". It's not good example to justify your cause.

    I am a structural designer, and I just can't help but smile every time you say these things. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    Taking the mouse away will be the same mistake as getting rid of Start Menu.

    If you think mouse is expensive, are you saying that Wacom is cheap? I have a Wacom Bamboo Capture pen & touch tablet and although it's the cheapest version ($99) of graphic tablet that has hand gesture options, it's still 3X more expensive than my favorite Logitech wireless mouse. And it's not even a touch monitor, it's just a graphic tablet. So, I would think, the Wacom touch screens are more than 10X more expensive. Wacom is NOT CHEAP! And 10X more difficult to get used to than a regular mouse. The stylus itself would be expensive already. So, how would it justify losing the mouse????

    I guess it's time to change you sig. You're not doing it yourself.
    I use AutoCAD and Photoshop quite a bit as the career field I'm going into is architecture.... Even in the field of architecture, CAD drawing isn't the sole way architects design at all. They STILL do a lot of hand drafting. Why? I don't know, that depends on the person. Personally, I can't envision something and draw it facing a computer screen and using a mouse. Master plans are drafted still by hand and THEN done into AutoCAD, at least from the couple of firms I've been at to shadow.

    Halo isn't a cartoon, it is a meticulously drawn and revised 3D graphical model that required a lot of fine tuning and input that you obviously don't even realize. Some developers used a mouse, others used a stylus and touchscreen. Also, never did I say that you're supposed to use "swiping and hand gestures" to design anything. NO WHERE. You're putting words in my mouth.

    Also, I never said the mouse was expensive, again, you're putting words in my mouth. I bloody well know a Wacom graphical design touchscreen cost about 3,400 dollars, one that is SOLELY built for Photoshop as it has a bunch of buttons and I believe a scroll wheel on the sides just to be better suited in switching paintbrushes or to change pressure sensitivity.

    I'M not the one thinking outside the box here? You're the one that is arguing to stay with the current UI model that has been around for decades, while I'm thinking about possible potential elsewhere that is significantly easier to use. I can really tell you've NEVER used a touchscreen on Windows 7 or 8, as well as not even figuring out how to use it effectively. As someone who is a structural designer, I'm surprised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    [...Sure you can use the mouse, but you have a bloody expensive optional input.
    this is where I got the idea you saying that a mouse is an expensive tool... unless you meant something else...


    ...YES CAD is the sole way of doing architectural drafting works... unless you are talking about a small time company doing kitchen renovation.

    I said "cartoons", with quotation marks as opposed to reality...

    and you said... "Simply because there is just no need to have a mouse anymore".... which to me is like saying you want to do everything with a swipe.

    I did not put words into your mouth.. I just translated them the way I understood them from your own words.

    If you can refer me to an EPC company that uses touchscreen for structural designing... send me a link... please.

    We can go on forever.. but I rest my case.
    What I referred to as in that line was that if you bought a new touch enabled PC, you are paying roughly 100-200 dollars more over the non-touch model. That's a lot of money to have touch as an option, this is what I meant.

    The architects I've met and even some mechanical engineers, the ones at least that have been in the business for a couple of decades, still do hand drafting. Some still use a drawing easel, a T square, and a pencil of some kind to draw up the master plans. They will then go over to a CAD program and draw up the plans, as those are more crisp and copies are better made. Even when I was taught drafting many years, I remember my instructor once said about the benefits of AutoCAD, "You don't want to give the fat plumber with his butt crack hanging out plans that you spent many hours and several nights working only for him to drop his burrito on it while on the job." Something along those lines... Personally, I do that same process, I'll hand draw something and make those plans in CAD because that's what's best for me. I can't draw with a mouse. It's not right, I need a .07 mm Bic mechanical pencil and paper. That's what I find to be best about a touchscreen with a stylus, that mechanical pencil is a stylus and that (pressure sensitive) touchscreen is the paper on the drawing easel.

    There is just no need for a mouse when you have touch to me. There really isn't anything I can't think of other than PC gaming that needs a mouse. I've worked with touch on a desktop long enough to know that. That, along with speech command, along with possibly hand gesturing with the Leap Motion. I still want to know more detailed specs about it as if that can be used to ACTUALLY interact with your PC and from what distance.

    I don't know of any EPC company that uses touch for structural engineering, as I'm not in the engineering field. I once was going to, but then I realized that is WAY too much work for a minor degree. IT technology is a better minor degree as I could easily crap that out.

    Also, this hit me today as why possibly there is such uproar about Windows 8. Programmers and engineers are similar in the way that they use the right side of their brain more than anything. The thing I appreciate about Windows 8 is the design, and I know I am a left brain thinker more than my right. (As a designer, I find those two intermingle more than most people) They way I know it, engineers will do the griping about the ridiculous and superfluous design and architect drew up. The architect is the one who draws up something complex and elegant, while the engineer will draw up something simple and utilitarian more time than not. Kind of also makes me wonder if that's also why it seems apple mac users think Windows 8 is nice because the general stereotype of the mac user is a "creative" type of some kind, or left brain thinker.... Interesting tangent.
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  5. #65


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Do you have this one for touch screen, Hopachi?

    Attachment 20581
    That's a good one!
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  6. #66


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Good one!
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Do you have this one for touch screen, Hopachi?

    Attachment 20581
    Of course I don't have it!


    I'll have to begin making finger pointers!
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  7. #67


    Posts : 17
    Windows 8 Pro and RT


    I really don't think a question is whether or not you have to choose between touch or a mouse. I recently purchased the Microsoft surface RT. At opted for this device since I already have a desktop computer. However, the more I use it the more understand the hybrid design. With USB Port I could easily plug in a keyboard and mouse combo if I chose to. I think many of the hybrid manufactures today need to take a second look at the surface design both pro and RT. That being said, you still need a full size computer for some things such as software development or other applications mentioned here. As for windows eight overall design I have found touch and the keyboard with a mouse all work fine. The additional benefit of the new hybrid is that it saves a lot of space. For everyday use, such as typing documents, sending emails etc. The small footprint hybrid works great. This means the computer no longer has to be a major design feature of your home. The only thing missing at this point are better applications for the modern UI.
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  8. #68


    Hm, how do you imagine yourself sitting next to 1 or 2 meters monitor (tv) and touching it ? I mean, maybe touch is fun on tablets, but thats the end for me in touch usage, we will make ww3 if we will be forced to touchscreens everywhere. How long your arms are, niggas ? Cuz i dont see comfortable touchscreen usage anywhere but tablets.
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  9. #69


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by startas View Post
    we will make ww3 if we will be forced to touchscreens everywhere.
    Not entirely.
    Mouse and keyboard are impossible to remove as long as USB ports exist. Even if you'll be forced to touch, you plug in a keyboard when needed. But as I said earlier, let's not exclude touch entirely, we keep it as a new technology alongside what we already have.
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  10. #70


    Posts : 474
    Win 8 (64) : Win 7 (64) : Vista (64) : Android JB 4.2 : iOS 6


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fourthofjuly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    I use AutoCAD and Photoshop quite a bit as the career field I'm going into is architecture.... Even in the field of architecture, CAD drawing isn't the sole way architects design at all. They STILL do a lot of hand drafting. Why? I don't know, that depends on the person. Personally, I can't envision something and draw it facing a computer screen and using a mouse. Master plans are drafted still by hand and THEN done into AutoCAD, at least from the couple of firms I've been at to shadow.

    Halo isn't a cartoon, it is a meticulously drawn and revised 3D graphical model that required a lot of fine tuning and input that you obviously don't even realize. Some developers used a mouse, others used a stylus and touchscreen. Also, never did I say that you're supposed to use "swiping and hand gestures" to design anything. NO WHERE. You're putting words in my mouth.

    Also, I never said the mouse was expensive, again, you're putting words in my mouth. I bloody well know a Wacom graphical design touchscreen cost about 3,400 dollars, one that is SOLELY built for Photoshop as it has a bunch of buttons and I believe a scroll wheel on the sides just to be better suited in switching paintbrushes or to change pressure sensitivity.

    I'M not the one thinking outside the box here? You're the one that is arguing to stay with the current UI model that has been around for decades, while I'm thinking about possible potential elsewhere that is significantly easier to use. I can really tell you've NEVER used a touchscreen on Windows 7 or 8, as well as not even figuring out how to use it effectively. As someone who is a structural designer, I'm surprised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    [...Sure you can use the mouse, but you have a bloody expensive optional input.
    this is where I got the idea you saying that a mouse is an expensive tool... unless you meant something else...


    ...YES CAD is the sole way of doing architectural drafting works... unless you are talking about a small time company doing kitchen renovation.

    I said "cartoons", with quotation marks as opposed to reality...

    and you said... "Simply because there is just no need to have a mouse anymore".... which to me is like saying you want to do everything with a swipe.

    I did not put words into your mouth.. I just translated them the way I understood them from your own words.

    If you can refer me to an EPC company that uses touchscreen for structural designing... send me a link... please.

    We can go on forever.. but I rest my case.


    What I referred to as in that line was that if you bought a new touch enabled PC, you are paying roughly 100-200 dollars more over the non-touch model. That's a lot of money to have touch as an option, this is what I meant.

    The architects I've met and even some mechanical engineers, the ones at least that have been in the business for a couple of decades, still do hand drafting. Some still use a drawing easel, a T square, and a pencil of some kind to draw up the master plans. They will then go over to a CAD program and draw up the plans, as those are more crisp and copies are better made. Even when I was taught drafting many years, I remember my instructor once said about the benefits of AutoCAD, "You don't want to give the fat plumber with his butt crack hanging out plans that you spent many hours and several nights working only for him to drop his burrito on it while on the job." Something along those lines... Personally, I do that same process, I'll hand draw something and make those plans in CAD because that's what's best for me. I can't draw with a mouse. It's not right, I need a .07 mm Bic mechanical pencil and paper. That's what I find to be best about a touchscreen with a stylus, that mechanical pencil is a stylus and that (pressure sensitive) touchscreen is the paper on the drawing easel.

    There is just no need for a mouse when you have touch to me. There really isn't anything I can't think of other than PC gaming that needs a mouse. I've worked with touch on a desktop long enough to know that. That, along with speech command, along with possibly hand gesturing with the Leap Motion. I still want to know more detailed specs about it as if that can be used to ACTUALLY interact with your PC and from what distance.

    I don't know of any EPC company that uses touch for structural engineering, as I'm not in the engineering field. I once was going to, but then I realized that is WAY too much work for a minor degree. IT technology is a better minor degree as I could easily crap that out.

    Also, this hit me today as why possibly there is such uproar about Windows 8. Programmers and engineers are similar in the way that they use the right side of their brain more than anything. The thing I appreciate about Windows 8 is the design, and I know I am a left brain thinker more than my right. (As a designer, I find those two intermingle more than most people) They way I know it, engineers will do the griping about the ridiculous and superfluous design and architect drew up. The architect is the one who draws up something complex and elegant, while the engineer will draw up something simple and utilitarian more time than not. Kind of also makes me wonder if that's also why it seems apple mac users think Windows 8 is nice because the general stereotype of the mac user is a "creative" type of some kind, or left brain thinker.... Interesting tangent.
    Well said Coke. I am not gonna add anything more to this. I've said my piece. Whether you like it or else, the mouse will stay for many many more years to come. If touchscreens will be bundled free with any PC, consumers will sure take it but not necessarily use it.

    But just so you know, I am an architect by profession (back in my homeland) but I am a structural designer by occupation here in Toronto.
    I guess I just got bored with the monotonous job of the architects. Architects always aim to make their design as a landmark... or simply put.. a trophy. While engineers aim to establish legacies.. bridges, tunnels, dams, etc. Right now I am working on subway expansion here in Toronto for more generations to benefit from.
    Engineering? a minor degree? Anyways, be careful with your statements. Don't over generalize. You look bad when you say things like that.

    Sorry for misinterpreting some of the things you said before. Keep in TOUCH. Haha. Cheers!
    Last edited by fourthofjuly; 21 Apr 2013 at 15:00.
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Do consumers really want touchscreen PCs? (Because I don't
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