Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Do consumers really want touchscreen PCs? (Because I don't

  1. #41


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    If it's not popular now, how is it going to become popular in 2-3 years? It would have been so simple to have left the interface elements of Windows 7 in Windows 8, brought in the underlying improvements and left the MPI as a secondary option for the desktop. Windows 8 would have stormed the ramparts and been declared a resounding success. I can't believe how Microsoft completely misread its userbase and was blindsided by tablets and mobile phones.
    OMG! Is this the way your going to go out of this world?! Kicking and screaming all the way?!!....I mean Geez?!!....Why don't they see things my way?!! You too, SIW(I don't know you)2. It is what it is!!!......PERIOD!!! I mean get a grip!!! TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING.....Your desktop is OBSOLETE!!! Gone! Nil! Obsolete! Bye bye! Adis! See ya! Will be gone forever! No return! No coming back!
    Your rant is quite hypocritical. But that's nothing unusual from you and others that keep calling those who don't like the MPI and support the view that there should be options, as Luddites and the like.

    I, nor anyone else, is suggesting that things should be done my way, but merely voicing a view that options should be provided. Options that in no way affect Windows 8, but enhance the user experience of those who work on the desktop.

    Your post is akin to a childish tantrum, emotional and full of shouting and ranting.
    You're correct. My sincere apology for my post. I'm sorry. No excuse, but I wrote that after I came home last night after having a bit too many. Also having a "bit of differences" with the little lady so I took my frustration out on you two.

    I read the article, found it to be interesting, and posted. I thought I simply posted my desires to look into touch and my point of view. In no way did I state touch is for everyone nor forced my opinion on anyone.

    Perhaps I'm a oddball user in that I sit close to my monitor. I've been a keyboard shortcut keys user for quite some time and I've always disliked the mouse. That's me as an individual as we all are.

    I just received a call from my daughter. She's being flooded out here in the Fox River Valley. I'll have to finish this later.

    The main objective was to apologize. Please forgive me. Gotta go....

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  2. #42


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by phillipduran View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I own an iPad, which I love dearly. I use it for lots of things -- games, email, browsing the web, social networking, writing, viewing photos and video, and remote accessing my PC. The iPad, like all tablets, is a true jack of all trades and a master of some too.
    But, try as I might, I cant use it for "real" tasks. While its fine for writing small-ish articles on, I could never write a novel on it -- and Ive tried. For some reason, I just cant connect with typing on a touchscreen in the same way I do when typing on a proper full-size keyboard. And I could never imagine attempting detailed Photoshop work on a touchscreen either (well, not without a fine stylus at least).

    Maybe its just because Ive been using a keyboard and mouse combo for so long that the old control method has become part of who I am when working. I sit down in front of my PC and the mouse and keyboard are there, in my hands without my ever really having to think about what Im doing.
    Do consumers really want touchscreen PCs? (Because I don't)

    Personally I'm looking into getting a touch screen for my desktop PC. I have one of those two-foot deep glass computer desks with the glass slide-out keyboard draws. Since the desk is only two-foot deep and with the draw closed I can get close enough to my screen to use touch. I have no problems with my arms tiring since I've worked construction for many years.

    Another factor is that I've always disliked the mouse and use mostly keyboard shortcuts. I'm thinking with touch along with a stylus I can throw my mouse away for good.

    What are your thoughts on the article and/or any scenario of using touch at your desk?

    gorilla arm

    Attachment 20469

    Touch screens on PC's should be looked at as another input option such as a pen pad. It shouldn't be look as an input method everyone needs to migrate to.
    Agreed.

    It should be optional, as another method or combined (to support) the current mouse and keyboard not to replace mouse and keyboard.

    For larger screens, your arm(s) will tire sooner than expected (good to know about the gorilla arm) and as Jimbo said, you will get finger marks all over the screen, requiring more cleaning maintenance.

    Plus, when you type you still emulate a virtual keyboard filing extra screen space (meaning that keyboard is irreplaceable at the moment).

    I'm OK with tablets and some newer laptops where touch has proven it's value, but for desktop workstations, touch is a foreigner.
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  3. #43


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Selection Shortcuts


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I've mastered that already a LONG LONG time ago, but still, it is a piss off when that does happen though on an internet page when you're selecting something and have to scroll pretty far down to get a piece of text. Then at the end, it highlights EVERYTHING the page...
    Selecting text on web pages can be painful.

    "Left Click" followed by "Shift + Left Click" is what you use in that situation.
    It works in most programs, including Word (it also works in both directions).

    These shortcuts work well in Word (I don't know about 2013 though).
    "Ctrl + Shift + Home" or "Ctrl + Shift + End" are also useful for selecting large blocks of text.
    These don't necessarily work as expected on web pages though.

    "Ctrl + Shift + Left Arrow" or " Ctrl + Shift + Right Arrow" are great for selecting words.
    These work correctly on web pages.

    "Ctrl + Shift + Up Arrow" or "Ctrl + Shift + Down Arrow" are great for selecting paragraphs.
    These two don't seem to work on web pages.

    Admittedly these shortcuts probably aren't much use on a tablet.
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  4. #44


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    I wonder whether MS will supply the music for those hand gestures.

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  5. #45


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I own an iPad, which I love dearly. I use it for lots of things -- games, email, browsing the web, social networking, writing, viewing photos and video, and remote accessing my PC. The iPad, like all tablets, is a true jack of all trades and a master of some too.
    But, try as I might, I cant use it for "real" tasks. While its fine for writing small-ish articles on, I could never write a novel on it -- and Ive tried. For some reason, I just cant connect with typing on a touchscreen in the same way I do when typing on a proper full-size keyboard. And I could never imagine attempting detailed Photoshop work on a touchscreen either (well, not without a fine stylus at least).

    Maybe its just because Ive been using a keyboard and mouse combo for so long that the old control method has become part of who I am when working. I sit down in front of my PC and the mouse and keyboard are there, in my hands without my ever really having to think about what Im doing.
    Do consumers really want touchscreen PCs? (Because I don't)

    Personally I'm looking into getting a touch screen for my desktop PC. I have one of those two-foot deep glass computer desks with the glass slide-out keyboard draws. Since the desk is only two-foot deep and with the draw closed I can get close enough to my screen to use touch. I have no problems with my arms tiring since I've worked construction for many years.

    Another factor is that I've always disliked the mouse and use mostly keyboard shortcuts. I'm thinking with touch along with a stylus I can throw my mouse away for good.

    What are your thoughts on the article and/or any scenario of using touch at your desk?
    I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding the word "option" combined with "touchscreen". Look, just because there's a touchscreen doesn't mean you have to throw away your mouse and use the touchscreen for photoshop.

    Look, when the mouse came out, did you have to give up your keyboard to only use the mouse? No, of course not. The keyboard was still very helpful. It still is. Now that we have touchscreen, it sure beats the mouse or the keyboard in certain tasks. But we still type a lot faster with a keyboard, and we still copy and paste blocks of texts and work with autocad and photoshop a lot better with a mouse.

    I don't understand this false dilemma that people are coming up with. Why do we have to give up the mouse or the keyboard because we have touchscreen now? I don't get that. Can someone smarter than me please explain to me why you think just because we have the touchscreen that we have to abandon the mouse?

    Is this the same mentality that because I can marry my long time partner that your marriage will be somehow magically ruined?
    Simply because there is just no need to have a mouse anymore. Sure you can use the mouse, but you have a bloody expensive optional input. You don't get rid of the keyboard mind you, just the mouse. For tedious tasks such as text selecting, that's why they make stylus'. For fine input on Photoshop, you don't use your bare finger as that would be deranged. Professional digital artists that work with a touch monitor (usually a Wacom one) will ALWAYS use a stylus. I'll cite Halo 4 as a game in which the art was done with touch and stylus.

    When you have the two, the need for the mouse is just not there anymore. You can keep it if you want, but that depends on the person. Some see it as an option, some as a primary input.
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  6. #46


    Posts : 474
    Win 8 (64) : Win 7 (64) : Vista (64) : Android JB 4.2 : iOS 6


    Coke, do you know how to use PDS Fameworks, Autodesk Revit, SmartPlant, Bentley Structural Modeler, Microstation and AutoCAD? I do.All of them. Have you even heard about data point, tentative point and accept button? I guess you don't because you want the mouse out of the equation.

    High rise towers, dams, highwayss, subway systems and the roof you are sleeping in are NOT designed using drag and drop templates and graphic libraries. They are meticulously designed, connections after connections with extreme precision and accuracy. The world is not built by swiping and hand gestures. Halo is a "cartoons". It's not good example to justify your cause.

    I am a structural designer, and I just can't help but smile every time you say these things. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    Taking the mouse away will be the same mistake as getting rid of Start Menu.

    If you think mouse is expensive, are you saying that Wacom is cheap? I have a Wacom Bamboo Capture pen & touch tablet and although it's the cheapest version ($99) of graphic tablet that has hand gesture options, it's still 3X more expensive than my favorite Logitech wireless mouse. And it's not even a touch monitor, it's just a graphic tablet. So, I would think, the Wacom touch screens are more than 10X more expensive. Wacom is NOT CHEAP! And 10X more difficult to get used to than a regular mouse. The stylus itself would be expensive already. So, how would it justify losing the mouse????

    I guess it's time to change you sig. You're not doing it yourself.
    Last edited by fourthofjuly; 20 Apr 2013 at 12:33.
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  7. #47


    Hafnarfjrur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    @CokeRobot
    Perhaps you really should take Vacation / "Holiday" that very well known Dutch City where you can take every "mind blowing" substance known to man (or even beast).

    I've already pointed out on some of your other posts about the full screen Metro Interface - you obviously haven't EVER had to compare prices from a load of websites so you can get cheap airline tickets, or even have had to do ANYTHING whatsoever on a computer that requires more than simply Googling stuff and copying responses -- in fact do you actually HAVE a computer at all.

    I have to admit though some of the stuff you post would certainly make it into the Sci-Fi's 50 best sellers lists.

    You need to get out there into "The REAL World" as you seem to have not a clue how things are actually done in practice - even if you say you buy the best hardware on the planet.

    @FourthofJuly

    Perhaps we should Hand hold cokie through a REAL world situation and show how stuff is REALLY performed on computers in a lot of work situations -- he obviously has no idea whatsoever.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  8. #48


    Hafnarfjrur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    I used an Acer All in One touchscreen at my office for a couple of weeks. For some things touch is ok, but for everyday use I won't be switching.

    Smears on the monitor are terrible
    I hate the shiny reflective nature.
    Cutting and Pasting is cumbersome.
    I hate shifting my hands between the horizontal surface of the keyboard and the vertical surface of the monitor.
    Arm gets tired after a few hours or reaching for everything.
    That sums it up for me. Thanks for sharing real life experience.
    Why would someone use touch to cut and paste?
    Who would use touch for hours?
    How many touch users do their work on vertical monitors?
    Does everyone have greasy fingers?
    Can you clean your touch screen with Windex or something?
    Hi there
    Even if you were the most Fastidious person in the Entire universe you would still leave finger print marks and smear stains across a touch screen.

    The only type of places where these might make the grade in Commercial applications are when they operate in "Kiosk Mode" say at Railway stations or Airports - and even here people just seem to get fazed by these -- I'm sure it's the same in the USA but just try arriving in Kings Cross station in London around 17.20 on a Friday night and try and buy a simple rail ticket to YORK -- people just look at the screens for HOURS scrolling up and down endlessly and haven't a clue what to do -- in fact it's usually quicker to stand in what seems a long line (there are always long lines in the UK but on the whole if you have to stand in line in the UK it's relatively civilized -- even today -- ... "Whatever you want to do --there's always a F....ng Queue".. as the ditty goes) and use the "Human ticket clerk desk". !!

    I'm sure at most airports it's the same -- You are behind someone who seems to take around 20 mins over what should be a quick 30 sec transaction.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  9. #49


    Posts : 474
    Win 8 (64) : Win 7 (64) : Vista (64) : Android JB 4.2 : iOS 6


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    @CokeRobot
    Perhaps you really should take Vacation / "Holiday" that very well known Dutch City where you can take every "mind blowing" substance known to man (or even beast).

    I've already pointed out on some of your other posts about the full screen Metro Interface - you obviously haven't EVER had to compare prices from a load of websites so you can get cheap airline tickets, or even have had to do ANYTHING whatsoever on a computer that requires more than simply Googling stuff and copying responses -- in fact do you actually HAVE a computer at all.

    I have to admit though some of the stuff you post would certainly make it into the Sci-Fi's 50 best sellers lists.

    You need to get out there into "The REAL World" as you seem to have not a clue how things are actually done in practice - even if you say you buy the best hardware on the planet.

    @FourthofJuly

    Perhaps we should Hand hold cokie through a REAL world situation and show how stuff is REALLY performed on computers in a lot of work situations -- he obviously has no idea whatsoever.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Let's do that. He should stop touring the world by swiping google street view maps. He should go out there in the real world.
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  10. #50


    Both of you are talking from completely different perspective.

    As I've stated before, the mouse and keyboard aren't going away any time soon. Touch is a nice addition to the list of interfaces we could use to interact with our computers. But it's not here to replace anything. People, please get that through your thick skulls. Nobody is out to get your mice.

    I work with a mouse almost everyday. It's still the best interface for a workstation, IMHO. I'm a field engineer, so sometimes I don't always have the luxury of sitting comfortably at my desk in the office. Having a laptop with a touchscreen has made my life a lot better than before.

    The point is touch is just another tool presented by the market. If you absolutely hate it, then don't use it. Or you could find a way to incorporate that into your life. But again, rest assured that no evil doer is out to take your mouse away.

    And coke, ease up on the fervor, man. I'm all for touch, because I love it. But these guys are right about working with certain programs that require an honest to god mouse. Remember that all these programs evolved by the mouse. They were designed and optimized for use WITH THE MOUSE. Until they come up with some ingenious way to adequately work with things like cad drawings through touch, the mouse remains my most trusted tool.

    Touch is still a relatively new tool. give it time and it will find its rightful place among our tool box.
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Do consumers really want touchscreen PCs? (Because I don't
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