Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC

  1. #11


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I call BS everywhere with OEMs.

    Windows 8 was known to be a touch oriented OS especially suited for the tablet PC form factor. This has been known since 2011.

    It's 2013, and most of the PCs out there are not with touch. Most of the PCs out there are just laptops and ultrabooks, not tablets with Windows 8 and not many tablets with RT. Seeing as how tablets are the more desired form factor, it's a tad ridiculous to say that Windows 8 is doing poorly and OEMs are doing poorly when OEMs are still focused on nontouch laptops. Even Lenovo has said that their touch PCs are selling quite well, and in fact, there aren't enough touch displays to properly meet demand at respectable prices. Even Lenovo built the touch Yoga ultrabook well before Windows 8 hit RTM and didn't even release it until Windows 8 came out. Why? They were smart.

    Microsoft could had built a netbook, laptop, ultrabook, AIO or a desktop as their platform PC with Windows 8. They didn't. Why? Because THEY already knew where the computing trend has been going and built a PC THEMSELVES several years before Windows 8. They didn't use HP or any other OEM to build the Surface tablets. That kind of already says something in itself as that's almost like a vote of no confidence.

    I say, if there should be blame passed, it's on the OEMs. They aren't getting it and by the time they do, it will be too late.

    But if there are bright spots I see, it's Lenovo, Acer, Vizio, and possibly ASUS. Nokia may be on that list later this year if rumors are true.

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  2. #12


    USA, Idaho
    Posts : 1,062
    Win 8, (VM win7, XP, Vista)


    Quote Originally Posted by Phone Man View Post
    All the rumors say Start Button not Start Menu but it won't be long and we will see the new changes.

    Jim
    Testing win 8.1 Blue (9369) at present (sending this post from there), and at this time it has not been included.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #13


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phone Man View Post
    All the rumors say Start Button not Start Menu but it won't be long and we will see the new changes.

    Jim
    Testing win 8.1 Blue (9369) at present (sending this post from there), and at this time it has not been included.
    But in all honesty, would a start menu even matter at this point?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #14


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phone Man View Post
    All the rumors say Start Button not Start Menu but it won't be long and we will see the new changes.

    Jim
    Testing win 8.1 Blue (9369) at present (sending this post from there), and at this time it has not been included.
    But in all honesty, would a start menu even matter at this point?
    Yes, it does. I don't care about the start menu. I've adapted completely to the new win8 interface, and I love it. But most people aren't tech oriented. And change isn't something they want to see.

    A few years ago as a joke I wrote a small program that permanently hide the task bar. I sent it out to everyone I know and told them to run it. Most were totally lost without the task bar. Only a couple thought it was really cool.

    The point is we've been seeing touch screen coming for years. And yet OEM manufacturers kept on making devices without touch screens. And people kept on buying these devices without touchscreens.

    Frankly, nowadays devices without touchscreen annoy the hell out of me. Just imagine not having a mouse and having to navigate with DOS commands. That's how annoyed I feel without touch screens.

    So, yeah, I also call BS on the part of OEM's.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #15


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    The OEMs aren't saying anything about touch, they are making a point about the focus on apps and the abandonment of the traditional user.

    Many PC OEMs are dissatisfied with what Microsoft has done with Windows 8 and the way the company has handled the negative response to the operating system. Privately, one OEM source told me that Microsoft is "destroying" the PC industry, while another claimed that Windows 8 has "handed over millions of customers to Apple."

    One of the primary reasons why Microsoft wanted to bypass the desktop and throw Windows 8 users into the confusing hell stew that is the Start Screen is to give apps a higher level of visibility.

    But if Microsoft is planning to give users the ability to bypass the Start Screen, this is going to mean fewer eyeballs on apps. This could have a detrimental knock-on effect on app sales.

    Will developers be interested in developing apps for Windows 8 if the focus of attention is shifted from the Start Screen to the desktop?
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  6. #16


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    Actually in the latest leaked build (9369 x-64) there IS a button in the start screen -- Just click that and you get a list of all the apps which you can sort.

    So let's see if the Start screen really is a problem for desktop / Mouse users. -- I'm assuming here we are running an application that's NOT on the quick launch toolbar or on the desktop as starting these these are IDENTICAL in W7 and W8.

    W7 Actions

    -- Boot and Logon

    1) Click start Orb
    2) Click Menu ist level Folder say Ms Office
    3) click Ms EXCEL from Ms office programs
    4) start application

    Now W8 scenario

    Boot and Logon --- DON'T CLICK DESKTOP APP


    1) Click the new button on the start screen
    2) Choose EXCEL and click it

    So it's actually QUICKER for a lot of apps than using the classical Menu system -- can't really see what the "Beef" is about.

    There's other issues with W8 I don't like such as all those Metro apps which I've deleted from my start screen anyway.

    I agree staring an app with the FIRST version of W8 was a mess -- the newer system is streets better and as the apps can also be organised in decent groups on the start screen you don't even need custom toolbars either - although these can be very useful.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #17


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    So it's actually QUICKER for a lot of apps than using the classical Menu system -- can't really see what the "Beef" is about.
    The QUICKEST WAY is whatever method you're accustomed to. That's the beef. People don't want to swap to The Mobile Interface to run something that should be a muscle memory click away.

    Most people are simply old dogs that resent being forced to learn new tricks. I don't care if The Mobile Interface works for you and makes YOU faster, for other people its like cutting off a limb on workstations and telling people to learn how they can grow it back. Most people will never be as fast as they were, and they won't really gain much added functionality.

    That's not to say that New Tricks aren't expected and welcomed. Simply don't force them on people. Let them come to you over time, if that's what they want to do.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #18


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    If I want to open Excel in Windows 7, I click the start button and then then the Excel link. Same with Word, Photoshop, Lightroom, Dreamweaver, Acrobat etc. If I want to open Outlook, IE, Windows Explorer etc, I simply click once on the link in the taskbar. And I don't have to leave the desktop to do any of that. I can have two screens open and not interrupt anything that's going on in either screen. How good is that?
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  9. #19


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    You can do all that in W8 too
    Open EXEL from the start menu in W8 then open all the other apps from a taskbar / desktop link / toolbar or whatever -- almost identical - the only time you need to see the START screen is at boot -- otherwise it's almost the same.

    I think this whole thing has been done to death -- I'd suspect that in a few months time this whole argument will have been long since put to bed (and a good thing too).

    People have always adapted to new OS'es -- just look at people who have 97 different Linux Distros -- don't for one minute tell me they are all identical - and people don't complain about that -- if they like a distro they use it if they don't then they don't bother with it.

    If people want to stay with W7 --fine -- they can stay with XP / W2000 or even Windows 3.11 if they want to.

    I'm sure the final release of Windows 8.1 will make more concessions to non mobile computing devices but people will have to get used to some parts of the new GUI or use something else --their choice.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #20


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Hopefully you're right and in a few months the MPI will be just a bad memory, banished to RT and phones.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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