Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Will Windows 8.1 allow users to boot to desktop?

  1. #51


    A Finnish ex-pat in Leipzig, Germany
    Posts : 1,452
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Can you close a UI?
    I will not participate this pointless argument other than stating that you can not close Desktop as you described. Please try this: Open some desktop apps and for instance a browser or two. Go to Start Screen. Close Desktop as you described. Now bring pointer to bottom right and click to instantly be taken to your desktop with all apps and browsers open.

    I have had quite a lot of fun following this "I am an expert, what I say is the fact" argument from both sides. Childish behavior.

    Geeks grow up, remember that world does not have to adjust according to your opinions and preferences.

    Kari

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #52


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Can you close a UI?
    ... you can not close Desktop as you described....
    How have I described it? You do not know how I have described it. I only posted screenshots.
    Are you saying the posted screenshots are an illusion? How about the desktop located in Apps? Is that fake?

    It's ok to not participate. Any app one sees in the app taskbar Win + Tab, is paged to memory. Not closed completely. I was trying to make a blanket statement without being specific because the comprehension level is superseded by emotional responses. I did not write the code for closing the desktop but as you can see, there it is. However, I did not describe a suggested complete closing. The desktop app is somewhat different as it is paged to memory (including all running tasks) even after closed. It would be illogical for the programmers to code a closing command while other programs were running in the background. This only occurs when shutting down the computer. It is not necessary to be personally descriptive about someone that is only responding to technical details. Referencing age is not helpful.

    If the desktop is closed as described by the screenshot, it no longer is visible in the app taskbar but is paged to memory. Simply restarting the desktop returns the programs in memory. It is almost like live hibernation. (This will probably also be misunderstood). The technical specifications of the desktop do not execute until started by command. (desktop tile or other means)

    edit: this will probably not be read by anyone but I am adding it anyway...
    In order to make the desktop app close as in the screenshot



    it is necessary to have a WinRT app running in the background.
    The desktop app will not be removed from the app taskbar unless there is another metro app running.

    Could I add this, Can you snap a UI?
    The desktop can be snapped and merged with a metro app on the same screen.

    Click image for larger version
    Last edited by mdmd; 16 Apr 2013 at 16:40. Reason: requirement to task
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #53


    A Finnish ex-pat in Leipzig, Germany
    Posts : 1,452
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Your post clearly implied that desktop is not an UI as it can be closed. I simply corrected the facts.

    Over and out.

    Kari
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #54


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Your post clearly implied that desktop is not an UI as it can be closed. I simply corrected the facts.
    Over and out. Kari
    Thank You Sir. It is a complicated area and very misunderstood. But the facts, as you suggest, are not definitive in this context. It is almost philosophical based on years of tradition. How has anything been corrected? The desktop is a platform for executing applications and is coded differently in Windows 8 due to its coexistence with WinRT. Stating that the desktop is a UI is a point of view. It has been the case in all previous versions of Windows since Windows 95 but Windows 8 is different. As pertains to the title subject, it is relevant in so far as we are talking about the desktop.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #55


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Apps should be windowed, and to be perfectly honest.. the Start Button should return. Instead of the Start on the Charms menu, have it be Desktop if in the Start Screen and Start Screen if in the desktop. So you can flip back and forth. If you hit the window key it toggles to whichever one you aren't using. But having to flip over to the Mobile Interface to launch a desktop program which then launches the desktop interface is a fairly retarded way of setting up your operating system.
    Why would you want to segregate and then switch interfaces like that? I'll be blunt, I don't really need anyone to make me understand how Windows 8 and the Start Screen is designed such. How you see isn't even really close to how I see it, it's different. The reason why it's called the "new" Windows on the Start Screen is because of the live tiles and the internet based content on those live tiles. They are legitimate little "windows" to that app. Bing Weather's tile? Weather information. Finance tile? Current stock index prices. News app? Latest news feed. So and so forth, you really don't have to open those apps up to find some content like that when that content is condensed onto the live tile. Windows Phone also does this very well, on Windows it will take time for developers to realize that and take advantage of it. If the Windows Blue leak shows anything, it's that very thing right there as there is an even larger tile option that may or may not be used.
    I want to keep the two interfaces seperate because frankly.. they're two separate interfaces. Trying to merge the two to become one, and having to bounce back and forth is horrid.All of those apps you mentioned would still work, they'd simply open with a window wrapper on them. Want Weather? Click the app and it opens in a window on your screen. Or stock prices. Or whatever. Close them when done with them by clicking the X.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    There really isn't a difference of the Start Screen on a laptop or tablet or a desktop other than viewable tiles.
    Heck, I watch a bit of Netflix and can't even stand running the Netflix app. Why? Because if i'm watching some movie and I see an actor that I just can't figure out where I know them from, I usually have the habit of popping out of full screen, opening IMDB, and seeing who it is.. all while continuing to see/hear the movie. As such, I'll still watch stuff from the Web. I don't mind The Mobile Interface being there, but use The Desktop Interface as it was intended. And sitting at a PC, you almost never want to do only one thing at a time. That's why we have multitasking, that's why we have multiple cores, and the mobile interface.. while decent for small device media consumption, is a huge step back in capability from what modern PC's are used to performing.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #56


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    I am not going to try and explain one million lines of code to someone who does not appreciate the complexity of one million lines of code. The low information types would not even comprehend a flowchart of usability. How does one explain code engineering to a disgruntled enduser? There are too many hard core deskophiles to bring to the table. Even an office presentation of technical schematics would probably be ineffective due to emotional barriers.
    I'm well familiar with one million lines of code.. and the complexity of said code is highly dependent on how well-designed and structured that code is. 1 million lines of well-designed code can be easier to read, debug, and maintain than 50K lines of poorly-designed code.

    Either way, lets not pretend that what we're talking about really has anything to do with the desktop/start screen. It would be no harder for them to set it up to boot to the desktop than it would the start screen. Oh, they'll tell the rubes willing to lap up their excuses how hard it is *rolls eyes*, the hardness having to do with their ego being bruised at having to provide the option, not the implementation of it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #57


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Either way, lets not pretend that what we're talking about really has anything to do with the desktop/start screen. It would be no harder for them to set it up to boot to the desktop than it would the start screen.
    Well, I am not pretending. I am talking about those features. But if you are suggesting that the directive at Microsoft was to get people to the start screen with app visibility, I agree with that. They want people to get apps. No question. And it is not presented as anything other than a consumer product. True. I also agree they could have put options to boot to desktop, add a start menu, disable the metro. But that is not their business model. We can yuk and yuk all we want, (I am not), but they have chosen a path to new technologies and marketing that includes subscriptions, cloud services, and app sales and development.
    They are gambling for a win.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #58


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Either way, lets not pretend that what we're talking about really has anything to do with the desktop/start screen. It would be no harder for them to set it up to boot to the desktop than it would the start screen.
    Well, I am not pretending. I am talking about those features. But if you are suggesting that the directive at Microsoft was to get people to the start screen with app visibility, I agree with that. They want people to get apps. No question. And it is not presented as anything other than a consumer product. True. I also agree they could have put options to boot to desktop, add a start menu, disable the metro. But that is not their business model. We can yuk and yuk all we want, (I am not), but they have chosen a path to new technologies and marketing that includes subscriptions, cloud services, and app sales and development.
    They are gambling for a win.
    Well.. so far they're crapping out :>. And nothing I said would get rid of the apps at all. I'm not like WHS with a full-on 'Get Off My Lawn!' attitude when it comes to The Mobile Interface. Even on a desktop, it could be quite used if you have kids as its something that's far easier to teach/understand, just not as powerful.

    It really is a lot similar to the difference between an automatic and manual transmission in terms of capability vs power. Some people prefer to shift their gears to get the most out of the car, others simply put it in D. Imagine if you started out in a manual transmission, had to go automatic to shift it into D, and then back to a manual for driving. This is why I suggest they keep the Mobile and Desktop Interfaces separate and they each run the programs in their own way. Honestly, over time I think a lot more regular people will simply get used to The Mobile Interface, but the Desktop interface should always be a choice. Same as Automatic vs Manual.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #59


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    I suggest that if anyone needs to be on the desktop all the time, then feel free to modify and stay there. Add whatever you need, boot to the desktop via tricks, hacks or scripts, whatever. Install an orb, load up the desktop with icons, plaster your taskbar with 30 icons, add 5 or 6 toolbars, and enable your metro blockers. That's fine.


    I don't have any ax to grind. Use whatever tool you need. Boo hoo > just don't call my stuff useless.
    Sorry I called it useless.
    That wasn't personal, actually I used that config myself.

    If you like an empty start screen then use it, nothing bad there.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #60


    Posts : 474
    Win 8 (64) : Win 7 (64) : Vista (64) : Android JB 4.2 : iOS 6


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The Start Screen already is a start menu....


    The Start Screen is an apps environment. The Start Menu contains all the programs that also includes links/shortcuts to apps... meaning we can live without the Start Screen. The Start screen is a redundancy.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Will Windows 8.1 allow users to boot to desktop?
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