Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8′s market share finally surpasses desktop Linux

  1. #61


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    I never realised that a computer, which is kind of unnatural ie not of biological origin, had a natural interface that has only now been identified. It sounds very much like the Irish Calculator:

    Attachment 19882
    Go ahead and mock all you want...

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  2. #62


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Only if, in 9, they provide the option to ditch the 'Start Screen' when dealing with apps, especially for workstations.
    Careful now, that's tantamount to heresy for some on this forum. Some will be very unhappy:
    Not heresy at all :>. My point has been that you basically have A Tale of Two Interfaces. The Mobile Interface and The Desktop Interface. You can run The Mobile Interface easily on your system, simply hit the window key, select Start from charms, etc. Once there, knock yourself out in The Mobile Interface. That doesn't go away.

    However, if you choose The Desktop Interface... then it includes the ability to run both Apps and Applications(with the option for them to be windowed). Apps will be denoted with icons, same as .exe Applications(give them a little RT moniker in the upper left if they want). And they'll adhere to all the rules of the desktop, and when you close out of them you land on the desktop.

    So you can choose either The Mobile Interface(hi, i'm on a tablet!) or The Desktop Interface(gonna party like its 1995!).

    Both choices should be equally valid, and neither should bleed over into the other. Pick your poison. You should also be able to access the Windows Store from the Desktop, and when you add apps it adds them to both The Mobile Interface(as a tile) and The Desktop Interface(as an icon).
    The problem is, the mobile phone interface (MPI) is a failure from the get go on a desktop, especially multiscreen. Microsoft's belief is that you don't really need a desktop environment. You use the MPI for all of your social activities and the 'desktop' is there while the legacy programs require that environment. Microsoft wants to wean everyone to the MPI and inevitably plans to migrate Office etc into that environment. Though third party program developers may not like that.

    Everyone knows that with third party programs, you can avoid the MPI, but that's not the point. The desktop should have been retained as an option if that's where you wanted to do your work and avoid the MPI altogether. Microsoft also failed with the MPI by making it a single, full, screen only experience. It should have been, from the outset, what ModernMix is providing, a multi-window app environment. My concern is that Microsoft will do everything in it's power to disable these option and force everyone to their grand scheme.

    Some pundits are saying that Windows 8 should have been called Window 8, and that is not far from the truth.
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  3. #63


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    The problem is, the mobile phone interface (MPI) is a failure from the get go on a desktop, especially multiscreen. Microsoft's belief is that you don't really need a desktop environment. You use the MPI for all of your social activities and the 'desktop' is there while the legacy programs require that environment. Microsoft wants to wean everyone to the MPI and inevitably plans to migrate Office etc into that environment.
    They can 'believe it', all they want. If the consumers aren't 'buying it', it will fail at generating proper revenue.. same as Vista. The consumers can and will have the final say and its always tied to their $$. My suggestions are very simple to implement, yet it would do them a world of good. By clearly delineating the two interfaces, providing the ability to launch both styles of program in each, and removing all bleed or cross-over, it will allow them to grow in parallel. If the desktop starts to become less used, more power to them, but both options should be available(especially given the MPI is ideal for mobile devices).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Everyone knows that with third party programs, you can avoid the MPI, but that's not the point.
    It is a good point actually. Because there used to be a day where Microsoft sat back and saw what third-party developers came up with, and used that to highlight new tools to make. Because if someone can sell hundreds of thousands or millions of a third-party tool, then its a feature that users want. We're going to go the reverse route and third-parties are going to be making tools to replace the stuff Microsoft removes that users want? If that doesn't set off alarm bells in Redmond, Ballmer needs to retire or start getting his resume ready.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    My concern is that Microsoft will do everything in it's power to disable these option and force everyone to their grand scheme.
    Indeed. I'm sure Blue will break them(either intentionally or not), the only question is whether they prevent them from happening.
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  4. #64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke
    Quote Originally Posted by I
    Coke, just a question.... how do you right-click with your finger?
    Press and hold on a right clickable item for about two seconds.
    Yes that's it: Two seconds. Enough said. Anything short of instantly would get me depressed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee
    It not that their lazy Fred, it just isn't something people think of these days. A couple of years ago there was a friend that taught computer classes, and she didn't teach anything on using the keyboard short cuts. When asked why she indicated people found the mouse did everything they needed. .... I printed out the short cuts for win 8 and was shocked at the number there were (122 at last count). Again, things change over time.
    By "lazy" I mean their lack of curiosity and desire to learn. IMO everybody should lern the universal shortcuts like Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V etc and the most useful Ctrl+S and the unavoidable Ctrl+Shit+Esc. But poeple have no idea of the capabilities of Windows.
    chrisa, Micrososft has said abundantly that Modern UI (Metro) was the future of Windows and that the classic desktop will be gradualy phased out. The unecessary removal of the Start Menu was a first step in this direction. I don't know if they have changed their opinion but they looked hellbound to this last time I checked. They made clear that rthey were ready to resist market pressures for as long as it would take until the consumer base adopt the new UI.
    We are not, currently, in a philosophy where the user can choose. Still no option to enable or disable Modern UI, or as you said to toggle Mobilephone mode and PC mode.
    Microsoft's decision to subdivise the Start Screeen to run more than two apps side by side is a pathetic attempt to recreate desktop experience on it. It's like building a 3 wheels car, then add a 4th one because finaly it's better. They still didn't understand that it would be simplier to put apps into windows...
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  5. #65


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Fredledingue View Post
    chrisa, Micrososft has said abundantly that Modern UI (Metro) was the future of Windows and that the classic desktop will be gradualy phased out. The unecessary removal of the Start Menu was a first step in this direction. I don't know if they have changed their opinion but they looked hellbound to this last time I checked. They made clear that rthey were ready to resist market pressures for as long as it would take until the consumer base adopt the new UI.
    They tried the 'my way' strategy with Vista, how did that work out?

    I guarantee you that consumers can hold off purchasing products longer than Microsoft can stay solvent. And with Windows 7, they have at least until 2019 before they even have to think twice.

    And as I said, Microsoft can 'want' to do something all they want. If it isn't working, they will change course. They've proven to be a stubborn company at times, but always realistic. You can only push so far before the beancounters complain about the shortage of beans to count. And if you are pushing for something that users don't seem to want to adopt, or complain about after they adopt, it may very well be that you're doing it wrong.

    Maybe Apple has to integrate iOS into OSX in order for them to understand how to do it right? :>

    But really, once they get their head out of their rear, the changes to make the desktop work as it should are not hard at all to implement.
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  6. #66


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Well said Chrisa. Let's hope the bean counters get the upper hand.
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  7. #67


    That would mean capitalism works. But sometimes too much capital is bad for capitalist economy. Ironicaly.
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  8. #68


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    I guarantee you that consumers can hold off purchasing products longer than Microsoft can stay solvent.
    Depending on how MS want to play this - it could turn into something of a battle.

    It is clearly not a good idea to battle with your customers.
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Windows 8′s market share finally surpasses desktop Linux
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