Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Five reasons why the Windows desktop isn't going away

  1. #61


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Coke,

    can you explain this SSD magic a bit more. I fail to see what is actually happening here. If you are talking about 'garbage collection', that is done automatically by the hardware.

    ...
    It optimizes it, but that I think is the junk removal from the flash.

    Garbage Collection and TRIM in SSDs Explained - An SSD Primer | The SSD Review
    There isn't magic there, but Windows 8, upon the user's command, run the TRIM command if the SSD supports it. The Windows Experience Index, or winsat, determines the OS drive type and allows what kind of commands can be ran. On Windows 8, you can't really defrag or optimize a USB flash drive. In Windows 7, you probably could have.

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  2. #62


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    1. Hybrid Boot
    Didn't use it (I don't use the old style "Hibernate" either).
    It's no better than "Sleep" on a desktop.

    When I turn my PC off, I want it off.
    I don't want it remembering stuff, like malware that was running (unnoticed) in the RAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    2. Windows Defender built in
    Maybe a benefit, if it is actually the best AV.



    Process Explorer is still better.



    Didn't use it.
    I don't trust it either (People are still posting comments about problems with Dynamic Discs).



    I have stated many times that W8 has improved resource management (here and on SevenForums).



    That's not an improvement at all.
    Vista(?) and W7 got rid of confirmation dialogs for "Read-only" files, which was a stupid idea.



    If you like the "Ribbon".
    Let's face it, all that the "Ribbon" does is restore the menus and toolbars, that Vista and Windows 7 inexplicably got rid of (compared to XP).

    If you actually do "... a lot of file management, ...", 3rd party file managers are generally superior to Windows/File Explorer.



    Debatable.
    People are still posting about multi-monitor problems.



    Debatable.
    People are still posting about driver problems, including drivers that worked in W7.



    I haven't seen the performance comparisons (XP vs Vista vs W7 vs W8) so I can't say either way.
    The pretty graph doesn't impress me.

    "Pause" is OK though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    13. Native USB 3.0 support
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    14. Most flexible UI that all the H8ers out there vehemently do not understand how to use, the Start Screen.
    Not an improvement on a desktop without a Touch input device.

    It's like trying to use the Android Phone UI on my Nootec A9 Media Box.
    It's a nightmare to use with the supplied remote control.
    It requires a keyboard and mouse (wireless or USB) connected to be usable (or the optional wireless keyboard with scratchpad).
    I suppose you could buy a Touchscreen TV (blech!).
    I don't shut down my PC often, if I do it's with Hybrid Boot. It's just like hibernate, and the most underused feature in Windows on the desktop. Best and easiest way to cut boot time in half, use a feature that isn't used and optimize that for a Hybrid Boot feature. If you have malware running in the RAM, you probably should get a better anti-STD program...

    The removal of "Are you sure you want to delete this file?" prompt in Windows 8 is pretty much a time saver. Don't get me started on ALL THE DAMNED prompts EVERY SINGLE time I had to go through the start menu's All Programs list in 7 to tidy it up... UGH! The most tedious task was doing that with every new install of 7. In 8, I just open up File Explorer from a program tile on Start, hit the Select All icon on the Ribbon, choose the ones I want to keep, hit Delete. That's it. There is NO ACTUAL deleting of files, pretty much just moves a link's directory to the Recycle Bin to be THEN deleted. That's when you should be asked that, not when deleting a program shortcut.

    The Ribbon is basically designed (back in Office 2007) to eliminate the drop down menus and show more and more advanced commands quickly and easier. The Ribbon in File Explorer accomplishes that to a pretty good extent. It also eliminates the need to have to right click on everything for context menu to delete, and that also carries over to the touchscreen where you just tap to highlight a file, then hit Delete. If you notice, the most heavily used commands in File Explorer are larger icons so they're easier to click on are they're larger, and also easy to tap on. The file management I do does not require a third party as that is satisfied with the Ribbon. Unless there are benefits I'm not aware of, that's what suits me best.

    There have been some testing done with Windows 8's file copy speeds, at least with USB 2 and 3 that is, some people have reported a slight increase with USB 2 speeds.

    Windows Media Center is a nightmare to navigate with a mouse, it's designed for a remote control. Windows 8 on the other hand, works LITERALLY the same was as a Desktop UI, you have large icons, point, and click. Right click for commands within app. Click on the corner you've always clicked on for over 15 years. Move the mouse to the opposite corner to shut down after clicking on Settings. The changes I believe are WAY over the top hyped about when it's put into that context.
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  3. #63


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Fredledingue View Post
    Coke, The Start Menu is symbolical (frankly we can survive without it). But their refusal to bring it back was realy Microsoft's saying "we rule, we decide. You don't".
    So they got to decide to put a start menu, right click context menu, single and double clicking, and a Taskbar with Windows 95? Last I remember, no one asked for that.
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  4. #64


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Coke,

    can you explain this SSD magic a bit more. I fail to see what is actually happening here. If you are talking about 'garbage collection', that is done automatically by the hardware.

    ...
    It optimizes it, but that I think is the junk removal from the flash.

    Garbage Collection and TRIM in SSDs Explained - An SSD Primer | The SSD Review
    There isn't magic there, but Windows 8, upon the user's command, run the TRIM command if the SSD supports it. The Windows Experience Index, or winsat, determines the OS drive type and allows what kind of commands can be ran. On Windows 8, you can't really defrag or optimize a USB flash drive. In Windows 7, you probably could have.
    Coke, study the document I have linked, then you will understand how it works.
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  5. #65


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    If you have malware running in the RAM, you probably should get a better anti-STD program...
    An anti-malware program is only effective, if a signature is in its database (ignoring heuristics).
    If heuristics scanners actually worked, how could anyone get an infection?

    Also, what about the inevitable corrupt memory entries that aren't malware-related?

    Despite all of the talk of never having to reboot Windows because of corrupt memory entries, it is still required and usually it fixes the problem (it might not be Windows that causes the corruption).

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The removal of "Are you sure you want to delete this file?" prompt in Windows 8 is pretty much a time saver. Don't get me started on ALL THE DAMNED prompts EVERY SINGLE time I had to go through the start menu's All Programs list in 7 to tidy it up... UGH!
    MS went "out of their way" to make editing the Start Menu more painful than it should be.

    IMO, the fact that Windows 7 will automatically delete "Read-only" files is an awful design flaw.
    Now there is no easy way of protecting your files from accidental deletion.

    You need to create backup HDD images (which you should do anyway) and restore your files from them, instead of being warned about deleting them in the first place.

    The problem is the standard MS one; they couldn't be bothered creating a decent Advanced Move/Delete GUI tool.
    They created advanced Copy/Paste tools for Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The Ribbon is basically designed (back in Office 2007) to eliminate the drop down menus and show more and more advanced commands quickly and easier.
    I'm aware of the Official explanation.
    People kept asking for features that already existed in previous versions.

    This indicates something I've stated many times before; MS Help files are garbage (and they get worse with each new release).
    They couldn't be bothered fixing their Help files, or providing decent tutorials, so they decided to create a new GUI.

    The real reason was so that people would see it and go, "Ooh! Ah! The colours the patterns. I must buy it."

    I find that the advanced commands (that I want to use) are hidden behind a nondescript squiggle at the bottom of each section.

    I find it useful in Excel.
    It might be easier to use on a touchscreen, than menus are though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Windows Media Center is a nightmare to navigate with a mouse, it's designed for a remote control.
    Agreed.

    I've always found it to be awful to use with a mouse.
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  6. #66


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    +1 on Media Center. It is a terrible component. I stopped using it early on.
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  7. #67


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    If you have malware running in the RAM, you probably should get a better anti-STD program...
    An anti-malware program is only effective, if a signature is in its database (ignoring heuristics).
    If heuristics scanners actually worked, how could anyone get an infection?

    Also, what about the inevitable corrupt memory entries that aren't malware-related?

    Despite all of the talk of never having to reboot Windows because of corrupt memory entries, it is still required and usually it fixes the problem (it might not be Windows that causes the corruption).

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The removal of "Are you sure you want to delete this file?" prompt in Windows 8 is pretty much a time saver. Don't get me started on ALL THE DAMNED prompts EVERY SINGLE time I had to go through the start menu's All Programs list in 7 to tidy it up... UGH!
    MS went "out of their way" to make editing the Start Menu more painful than it should be.

    IMO, the fact that Windows 7 will automatically delete "Read-only" files is an awful design flaw.
    Now there is no easy way of protecting your files from accidental deletion.

    You need to create backup HDD images (which you should do anyway) and restore your files from them, instead of being warned about deleting them in the first place.

    The problem is the standard MS one; they couldn't be bothered creating a decent Advanced Move/Delete GUI tool.
    They created advanced Copy/Paste tools for Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The Ribbon is basically designed (back in Office 2007) to eliminate the drop down menus and show more and more advanced commands quickly and easier.
    I'm aware of the Official explanation.
    People kept asking for features that already existed in previous versions.

    This indicates something I've stated many times before; MS Help files are garbage (and they get worse with each new release).
    They couldn't be bothered fixing their Help files, or providing decent tutorials, so they decided to create a new GUI.

    The real reason was so that people would see it and go, "Ooh! Ah! The colours the patterns. I must buy it."

    I find that the advanced commands (that I want to use) are hidden behind a nondescript squiggle at the bottom of each section.

    I find it useful in Excel.
    It might be easier to use on a touchscreen, than menus are though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Windows Media Center is a nightmare to navigate with a mouse, it's designed for a remote control.
    Agreed.

    I've always found it to be awful to use with a mouse.
    Yeah, Hybrid Boot can cause issues, which is why that will be improved I bet in Windows Blue! But really, I generally haven't seen issues with that. The most I've seen is a DVD player on this HP desktop that seems to not work once in every while, it could be due to a dirty lens though...

    Honestly, editing the Start Screen is MUCH easier than in 7. Just streets ahead. It's easier to get into the File Explorer to edit it, whereas in the start menu in 7, this wasn't possible without showing hidden folders and knowing where to navigate to. And still, you don't get the superfluous dialog prompts asking you if you're indecisive or not.

    Using the Ribbon in Office, I was able to find commands I never really knew how to use that well or knew where they were to begin with. I can't go back to Office 2003 and fix a format issue at all, as I don't know where the commands are...

    But I do agree, Microsoft REALLY needs to get their poop in a group about Help files and tutorials. Last tutorial of Windows that was actually IN IT was xp. After that, it was a Getting Started window in vista. The latest drivers for my Microsoft Touch Mouse indirectly showed me how to use Windows 8 more than Windows 8 did after the OOBE screen. I really think they shot their feet here at the opportunity to educate a new Windows 8 user on HOW to use Windows 8. It should had been this way, the system detects a standard mouse, shows how to open the Charms bar, tells the user to try it before proceeding to the next tip which is app switching. Again, tells the user to do that action, move on to closing an app. If the system detects a gesture enabled touchpad, show all the following but telling the user to swipe on the edge of the touchpad. Same with touch. If that had been done, A LLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOTTTTTTT of issues with Windows 8 wouldn't be there.

    If there was a software I'd suggest over Media Center that would had been ABSOLUTELY delicious for touch and mouse, the Zune Software, version 4.8. OOHH!! Beautiful! Just a luscious and rich metro design that can EASILY had been tweaked for a good mouse and touch input, utilize the Charms bar, and made more efficient on system resource. That could had been Xbox Music, but that's not what happened.... Music Info is a pretty good app though that takes off the Zune Software's UI.
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  8. #68


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    Cokie
    I had to go through the start menu's All Programs list in 7 to tidy it up.
    What did you do to mess it up ?

    I don't remember ever having to do that.
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  9. #69


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    But I do agree, Microsoft REALLY needs to get their poop in a group about Help files and tutorials. Last tutorial of Windows that was actually IN IT was xp.
    I think that XP and Office 2003 probably had the last good MS Help files.
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  10. #70


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke R
    So they got to decide to put a start menu, right click context menu, single and double clicking, and a Taskbar with Windows 95? Last I remember, no one asked for that.
    Yes, they added things. Things that were being developed and experimented for many years already at that time With W8 they started to remove these things.
    The only thing I don;t like with Ribbon is the loss of space verticaly. Beside that I like it, at least as much as drop down menus. Does make much difference for me. However I'd love the circular menu. Looks cool, and would allow to work in full screen mode.
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Five reasons why the Windows desktop isn't going away
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