Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Five reasons why the Windows desktop isn't going away

  1. #51


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    I don't have Automatic Maintenance disabled, as I have it run daily. Keeps my PC running top notch
    Especially as it defrags your SSD every day, LOL
    I don't think that does in Windows 8... It optimizes it, but that I think is the junk removal from the flash.

    You can actually go into the Disk Defragger and change the settings to run manually or weekly. I have mine set daily as I'm still on those antiquated spinner drives and it annoys me when there is slow down somewhere. Defragging helps.

    But as much as hard drives are old (the technology premise pretty much lies with vinyl records, magnetic drives are decades and decades old) they're cheapish and hold a LOT of stuff.

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  2. #52


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by vrosa View Post
    I think the Desktop will disappear when most of the "four million desktop apps" used (seems like a high figure to me) are written in the Modern interface. I'm guestimating five years. It will remain a portal to the Modern UI until then.
    I still cant see AutoCAD, ArcGIS and a dozen of scientific and math softwares that I use working productively in a Metro interface. I think that five years is a small time frame for that. Don't get me wrong. I like Metro, but there's much to be done in the next years to retire desktop.

    Especially as it defrags your SSD every day, LOL
    It's disabled here too. Defrag a SSD is pointless because of wear leveling techniques used in current SSDs. In the end of the day data will still be fragmented and you will have consumed precious write cicles.
    I can see it happening, it will require a new UI design from it is right now, such as Ribbon to Radial menu design. The app command bar won't be used as one, AutoCAD has hundreds and hundreds of commands that will NEVER fit on the app command bar; and two, it will get tedious to do that. The OneNote MX app on Windows 8 has the Radial menu design that works REAL nicely for commands like that. Playing around with it, it is cool. Each Ribbon tab in AutoCAD could be turned into a Radial menu, where all the individual commands within that tab are there.

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  3. #53


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by vrosa View Post
    I think the Desktop will disappear when most of the "four million desktop apps" used (seems like a high figure to me) are written in the Modern interface. I'm guestimating five years. It will remain a portal to the Modern UI until then.
    I still cant see AutoCAD, ArcGIS and a dozen of scientific and math softwares that I use working productively in a Metro interface. I think that five years is a small time frame for that. Don't get me wrong. I like Metro, but there's much to be done in the next years to retire desktop.
    All of those would be ideal if redesigned for a modern/touchscreen interface.

    AutoCAD especially was designed in the era of nerds with a dogeared copy of Lord of the Rings in their back pocket wishing they could be just like Gandalf and have their supersecret book of spells(commands) that they could wield. Its also why learning the ins and outs of AutoCAD can take a while to master.

    It can be very powerful if you do, but the tool would become accessible to a lot more people with a real thoughtout interface. Even these days, CAD tools tend to be constrained by people that cannot think outside of the box of the GIMP desktop interface. Never saw a button they didn't like or a drop-down menu they couldn't pile added features onto.

    And of course, every one of them thinks thats the best and only possible way to effectively interact with a tool. Everything else is rubbish of course, but then they've never seen or used better.
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  4. #54


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vrosa View Post
    I think the Desktop will disappear when most of the "four million desktop apps" used (seems like a high figure to me) are written in the Modern interface. I'm guestimating five years. It will remain a portal to the Modern UI until then.
    I still cant see AutoCAD, ArcGIS and a dozen of scientific and math softwares that I use working productively in a Metro interface. I think that five years is a small time frame for that. Don't get me wrong. I like Metro, but there's much to be done in the next years to retire desktop.
    All of those would be ideal if redesigned for a modern/touchscreen interface.

    AutoCAD especially was designed in the era of nerds with a dogeared copy of Lord of the Rings in their back pocket wishing they could be just like Gandalf and have their supersecret book of spells(commands) that they could wield. Its also why learning the ins and outs of AutoCAD can take a while to master.

    It can be very powerful if you do, but the tool would become accessible to a lot more people with a real thoughtout interface. Even these days, CAD tools tend to be constrained by people that cannot think outside of the box of the GIMP desktop interface. Never saw a button they didn't like or a drop-down menu they couldn't pile added features onto.

    And of course, every one of them thinks thats the best and only possible way to effectively interact with a tool. Everything else is rubbish of course, but then they've never seen or used better.
    Holy hell yeah.... AutoCAD takes learning and then a few years to master. But the results are amazing though, it's quite something. It's also like with Photoshop, that and AutoCAD have legitimate college courses in order to master them as they're that intensive.

    But if I should say, the Ribbon in AutoCAD SUCKS. There are always without doubt several commands that don't fit within the Ribbon tab, such as Draw. It ends up being a drop down menu of sorts. Then there are the redundant tabs that show up in Home and Annotate, and the others as well.... It's not designed too well I believe. You can't mouse scroll through the tabs, only if you click on one of them and THEN be able to. That's ALWAYS been a pain in my crotch.

    I say Radial menu!
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  5. #55


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vrosa View Post

    I still cant see AutoCAD, ArcGIS and a dozen of scientific and math softwares that I use working productively in a Metro interface. I think that five years is a small time frame for that. Don't get me wrong. I like Metro, but there's much to be done in the next years to retire desktop.
    All of those would be ideal if redesigned for a modern/touchscreen interface.

    AutoCAD especially was designed in the era of nerds with a dogeared copy of Lord of the Rings in their back pocket wishing they could be just like Gandalf and have their supersecret book of spells(commands) that they could wield. Its also why learning the ins and outs of AutoCAD can take a while to master.

    It can be very powerful if you do, but the tool would become accessible to a lot more people with a real thoughtout interface. Even these days, CAD tools tend to be constrained by people that cannot think outside of the box of the GIMP desktop interface. Never saw a button they didn't like or a drop-down menu they couldn't pile added features onto.

    And of course, every one of them thinks thats the best and only possible way to effectively interact with a tool. Everything else is rubbish of course, but then they've never seen or used better.
    Holy hell yeah.... AutoCAD takes learning and then a few years to master. But the results are amazing though, it's quite something. It's also like with Photoshop, that and AutoCAD have legitimate college courses in order to master them as they're that intensive.

    But if I should say, the Ribbon in AutoCAD SUCKS. There are always without doubt several commands that don't fit within the Ribbon tab, such as Draw. It ends up being a drop down menu of sorts. Then there are the redundant tabs that show up in Home and Annotate, and the others as well.... It's not designed too well I believe. You can't mouse scroll through the tabs, only if you click on one of them and THEN be able to. That's ALWAYS been a pain in my crotch.

    I say Radial menu!
    You're still thinking inside the box. The box being that you have an object upon which work is to be done, and a set of commands that you can issue to modify it in a desired manner. You can pile those into drop-down menus, Radial Menus, a Ribbon, Buttons on a toolbar, or off a command-line. But you're still providing a static linear set of commands available at all times.

    The way a touch and the Modern interface works is that you interact directly(either through touch or mouse) with an object on the right, and you're provided a set of commands and controls based on what you select or what you do on the left. So lets say you select something with a drawing, say a vertex. A vertex isn't an entire object, so what you might want to do with that vertex is limited to those comands which manipulate a vertex. If you selected an entire object, what you might want to do with that object is completely different. The key is to provide a limited list of the most common things you want to do with that vertex or object.

    Lets say you select the side of a wireframe cube, a logical command i'll simply pull from my rear would be to add a texture to that side. As i always tell people... touch properly done turns the entire program inside out. In a traditional UI, you issue the command, select a texture, and then the object is the last thing you interact with and you select the side. In a touch UI, you select the side.. are provided the options of what you can do with that side, and then apply a texture.

    The reason this is key is that by turning the program inside out, you only have a finite ammount of logical commands that you want to do with any discrete portion of the object that can be selected, and those operations that cannot be done, can be dropped entirely until they are needed. In this way the interface becomes a lot more simplified because you don't have toolbars all over the screen or have to plow down through menus to find the most obvious commands based on what you've selected. At the same time, if you select something on the left.. like Move.. the entire list alters now that it knows that you want to move the object. Based on a path? Free dragging? To a specific location? And so on.

    The big problem Modern Interface has is nobody really understands the power of it yet, even most developers. It won't be until they break out of their mind set with some quality Apps and Applications that have been redesigned to use it that people suddenly start to understand exactly why its so groundbreaking. It isn't just for kicks.. it isn't just for show.. it really does provide a far more efficient and easier to understand way of doing things. But programs have to be specifically built for it to really take advantage of what it can actually do.
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  6. #56


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    1. Hybrid Boot
    Didn't use it (I don't use the old style "Hibernate" either).
    It's no better than "Sleep" on a desktop.

    When I turn my PC off, I want it off.
    I don't want it remembering stuff, like malware that was running (unnoticed) in the RAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    2. Windows Defender built in
    Maybe a benefit, if it is actually the best AV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    3. New Task Manager
    Process Explorer is still better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    4. Storage Spaces
    Didn't use it.
    I don't trust it either (People are still posting comments about problems with Dynamic Discs).

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    5. Improve system resource management
    I have stated many times that W8 has improved resource management (here and on SevenForums).

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    8. Less dialog box pop ups to confirm if you want to delete a file
    That's not an improvement at all.
    Vista(?) and W7 got rid of confirmation dialogs for "Read-only" files, which was a stupid idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    9. File Explorer Ribbon (for those that do a lot of file management, FAR superior than 7, no case or argument)
    If you like the "Ribbon".
    Let's face it, all that the "Ribbon" does is restore the menus and toolbars, that Vista and Windows 7 inexplicably got rid of (compared to XP).

    If you actually do "... a lot of file management, ...", 3rd party file managers are generally superior to Windows/File Explorer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    10. Improved dual monitor support
    Debatable.
    People are still posting about multi-monitor problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    11. Much more improved device driver support and installation
    Debatable.
    People are still posting about driver problems, including drivers that worked in W7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    12. Better file copy times and a new file copy/paste dialog box
    I haven't seen the performance comparisons (XP vs Vista vs W7 vs W8) so I can't say either way.
    The pretty graph doesn't impress me.

    "Pause" is OK though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    13. Native USB 3.0 support
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    14. Most flexible UI that all the H8ers out there vehemently do not understand how to use, the Start Screen.
    Not an improvement on a desktop without a Touch input device.

    It's like trying to use the Android Phone UI on my Nootec A9 Media Box.
    It's a nightmare to use with the supplied remote control.
    It requires a keyboard and mouse (wireless or USB) connected to be usable (or the optional wireless keyboard with scratchpad).
    I suppose you could buy a Touchscreen TV (blech!).
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 29 Mar 2013 at 20:42.
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  7. #57


    @ chrisa

    Just to let you know that your post didn't get unnoticed. I'm not that knowledgeable to understand all that you said, but I get the gist of it. I don't understand quantum mechanics either, but I know it exists.

    I always had a feeling that the "big change" MS made with the new interface was more than what meets the eye. More to it than just "taking our precious Start Menu away". A whole new approach to computing. Rather ingenious IMO.
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  8. #58


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Coke,

    can you explain this SSD magic a bit more. I fail to see what is actually happening here. If you are talking about 'garbage collection', that is done automatically by the hardware.

    ...
    It optimizes it, but that I think is the junk removal from the flash.

    Garbage Collection and TRIM in SSDs Explained - An SSD Primer | The SSD Review
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  9. #59


    Coke, The Start Menu is symbolical (frankly we can survive without it). But their refusal to bring it back was realy Microsoft's saying "we rule, we decide. You don't".
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  10. #60


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post

    All of those would be ideal if redesigned for a modern/touchscreen interface.

    AutoCAD especially was designed in the era of nerds with a dogeared copy of Lord of the Rings in their back pocket wishing they could be just like Gandalf and have their supersecret book of spells(commands) that they could wield. Its also why learning the ins and outs of AutoCAD can take a while to master.

    It can be very powerful if you do, but the tool would become accessible to a lot more people with a real thoughtout interface. Even these days, CAD tools tend to be constrained by people that cannot think outside of the box of the GIMP desktop interface. Never saw a button they didn't like or a drop-down menu they couldn't pile added features onto.

    And of course, every one of them thinks thats the best and only possible way to effectively interact with a tool. Everything else is rubbish of course, but then they've never seen or used better.
    Holy hell yeah.... AutoCAD takes learning and then a few years to master. But the results are amazing though, it's quite something. It's also like with Photoshop, that and AutoCAD have legitimate college courses in order to master them as they're that intensive.

    But if I should say, the Ribbon in AutoCAD SUCKS. There are always without doubt several commands that don't fit within the Ribbon tab, such as Draw. It ends up being a drop down menu of sorts. Then there are the redundant tabs that show up in Home and Annotate, and the others as well.... It's not designed too well I believe. You can't mouse scroll through the tabs, only if you click on one of them and THEN be able to. That's ALWAYS been a pain in my crotch.

    I say Radial menu!
    You're still thinking inside the box. The box being that you have an object upon which work is to be done, and a set of commands that you can issue to modify it in a desired manner. You can pile those into drop-down menus, Radial Menus, a Ribbon, Buttons on a toolbar, or off a command-line. But you're still providing a static linear set of commands available at all times.

    The way a touch and the Modern interface works is that you interact directly(either through touch or mouse) with an object on the right, and you're provided a set of commands and controls based on what you select or what you do on the left. So lets say you select something with a drawing, say a vertex. A vertex isn't an entire object, so what you might want to do with that vertex is limited to those comands which manipulate a vertex. If you selected an entire object, what you might want to do with that object is completely different. The key is to provide a limited list of the most common things you want to do with that vertex or object.

    Lets say you select the side of a wireframe cube, a logical command i'll simply pull from my rear would be to add a texture to that side. As i always tell people... touch properly done turns the entire program inside out. In a traditional UI, you issue the command, select a texture, and then the object is the last thing you interact with and you select the side. In a touch UI, you select the side.. are provided the options of what you can do with that side, and then apply a texture.

    The reason this is key is that by turning the program inside out, you only have a finite ammount of logical commands that you want to do with any discrete portion of the object that can be selected, and those operations that cannot be done, can be dropped entirely until they are needed. In this way the interface becomes a lot more simplified because you don't have toolbars all over the screen or have to plow down through menus to find the most obvious commands based on what you've selected. At the same time, if you select something on the left.. like Move.. the entire list alters now that it knows that you want to move the object. Based on a path? Free dragging? To a specific location? And so on.

    The big problem Modern Interface has is nobody really understands the power of it yet, even most developers. It won't be until they break out of their mind set with some quality Apps and Applications that have been redesigned to use it that people suddenly start to understand exactly why its so groundbreaking. It isn't just for kicks.. it isn't just for show.. it really does provide a far more efficient and easier to understand way of doing things. But programs have to be specifically built for it to really take advantage of what it can actually do.
    Yeah, which I'm basically saying with the Radian menu. I posted a few screenshots of OneNote MX and its radial menu. You tap or highlight some text, a small circle with an A in it shows up, tap or click that, and text commands appear in the radial. No other commands BUT text manipulation show up. Same thing if you hit a table, you get table commands. There is no Ribbon that has greyed out options or anything, a Radial only shows the relevant commands based upon what is selected by the user. From what you've described, that is essentially how the Radial "menu" design works, if this were a wireframe cube: you select the cube, tap the Radial menu icon that appears, issue the command, apply the texture. Then if you want to modify said texture, tap that, tap the Hatch icon that would show up, modify it.
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Five reasons why the Windows desktop isn't going away
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