Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows Blue - small look at leaked build 9364

  1. #201


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemix View Post
    Head up alert:

    Avast! is not properly working with build 9369.

    Avast! detected a malware on my system after install which I know for fact does not have any malware since it's fresh install.

    I followed the recommended to action by Avast! anyway to delete the infected file and do a boot-time scan and after boot-time scan Windows refuses to boot.

    This is on direct hardware with build 9369 and just drivers installed after a fresh installation of Windows.

    I'm not at all surprised since Avast! did not work the earlier build 9364 but since vrosa said it worked with build 9369 so I decided to give it a try.

    I'll just re-install Windows and stick with Windows Defender for the preview like I did with the earlier build 9364.
    Hi there
    Why on earth would you WANT to install AVAST on W8 -- W8 is NOT W7 -- the built in AV system works just fine - --I've long said that the time for 3rd party AV supplies is now over for PC's -- what they should do is concentrate on AV for Android / smart phones / tablets.

    Nothing wrong with AVAST on W7 but even there MSE is fine too but the whole security implementation mechanism is COMPLETELY different in W8 -- one thing the detractors of W8 can't level at it - the security is FAR superior in every way to W7 whatever people think of the relevant OS's.

    In fact AVAST or other 3rd party software will actually CAUSE problems since they disable the built in product on W8.

    Cheers
    jimbo

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #202


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    How is MSE so much better in Windows 8 than Windows 7 and if so, why can't it be just as good in Windows 7?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #203


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    How is MSE so much better in Windows 8 than Windows 7 and if so, why can't it be just as good in Windows 7?
    Hi Ray8 -- you've mis-understood -- hope you aren't getting dyslexic like cokie.

    MSE is for W7 NOT W8 .

    The reason security is so much better in W8 is that it's actually designed as part of the kernel -- not as a separate bolt on as it is in W7.

    It's easier to protect components that are part of the kernel itself than protecting what is just another "Application program".

    Most OS's run in two modes "Protected" and "application" mode. Tasks within the kernel can only run in "privilege mode" and it's almost (although not impossible) for a hacker to launch an external program that changes the privilege level.

    MSE and W7 security packages run in "Application" mode -- however they exploit some tricks to change their privilege level so they can make use of internal kernel services.

    W8 knows even if these tricks are exploited that they are external modules and therefore just ignore any privilege level code or calls.

    (I've over simplified the actual process but it should suffice as to what's going on -- a detailed explanation on designing OS's can easily be found all over the web if you are interested).

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #204


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    My understanding is that MSE and Windows Firewall were automatically incorporated into Windows 8, along with the UAC; whereas, in Windows 7 they were separate and 'optional', other than the UAC. There wasn't any other fundamental difference between the two according to an article I read a while back.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #205


    Posts : 203
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I have the same understanding as Ray8.

    Nothing to cry over and start flaming about, it's a preview so unexpected things are expected to happen.

    Besides the alert is meant as a heads up for those who might be thinking about installing Avast! on build 9369 (again for testing purposes that's what previews and betas are for), the message was never meant as an advertisement for Avast! comparing it to Windows Defender (MSE).
    Last edited by Nemix; 19 Apr 2013 at 07:06.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #206


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemix View Post
    Head up alert:

    Avast! is not properly working with build 9369.

    Avast! detected a malware on my system after install which I know for fact does not have any malware since it's fresh install.

    I followed the recommended to action by Avast! anyway to delete the infected file and do a boot-time scan and after boot-time scan Windows refuses to boot.

    This is on direct hardware with build 9369 and just drivers installed after a fresh installation of Windows.

    I'm not at all surprised since Avast! did not work the earlier build 9364 but since vrosa said it worked with build 9369 so I decided to give it a try.

    I'll just re-install Windows and stick with Windows Defender for the preview like I did with the earlier build 9364.
    What was the false positive ? I didnt notice that here.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #207


    Posts : 203
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I'm unsure but it was a system file from what I can tell with Avast!'s warning, I went ahead with the recommended action anyway to see what happens; this caused Windows boot to hang.

    Anyhow, thoughts on build 9369 (x64) is it feels smoother (especially multitasking) than build 9364 (x86) on my system however memory usage is double with just drivers installed: 500mb (x86) vs. 1GB (x64) on 8GB since x86 can only use 3GB out of 8GB on my system.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #208


    Note also that build 9369 is Windows 8 PRO (not Enterprise) and it can't be activated.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Actually it can be activated !

    Click image for larger version

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #209


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    As far as I know they are the same.

    I think MS have included it just it as basic AV protection.

    You might as well get one that does a better job, Avast for example:


    Avast
    This is our recommended free option...great malware protection..a generous set of features (by the standards of free software), ..low impact on system resources.

    MSE
    stopped only a shocking 67% of zero-day threats in AV-Test’s detection tests, and even missed 10% of more established threats. ...consider Avast free instead: it’s a more lightweight program and provides much better protection.

    Best free antivirus for 2013 | Buying Guides | Features | PC Pro



    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    My understanding is that MSE and Windows Firewall were automatically incorporated into Windows 8, along with the UAC; whereas, in Windows 7 they were separate and 'optional', other than the UAC. There wasn't any other fundamental difference between the two according to an article I read a while back.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #210


    Here's a few articles I found to try and understand more of what Jim is trying to say. There's tons more.

    Protecting you from malware - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    Making it harder to create an exploit on Windows 8

    With Windows XP SP2, we began creating defenses called mitigations that make it difficult to develop reliable exploits for security vulnerabilities. Each subsequent version of Windows has continued to expand and improve on these mitigations, because a single mitigation feature can break an entire class of exploits. Windows 8 includes mitigation enhancements that further reduce the likelihood of common attacks. Some of these improvements include:

    •Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR). ASLR was first introduced in Windows Vista and works by randomly shuffling the location of most code and data in memory to block assumptions that the code and data are at same address on all PCs. In Windows 8, we extended ASLR’s protection to more parts of Windows and introduced enhancements such as increased randomization that will break many known techniques for circumventing ASLR.

    •Windows kernel. In Windows 8, we bring many of the mitigations to the Windows kernel that previously only applied to user-mode applications. These will help improve protection against some of the most common type of threats. For example, we now prevent user-mode processes from allocating the low 64K of process memory, which prevents a whole class of kernel-mode NULL dereference vulnerabilities from being exploited. We also added integrity checks to the kernel pool memory allocator to mitigate kernel pool corruption attacks.

    •Windows heap. Applications get dynamically allocated memory from the Windows user-mode heap. Major redesign of the Windows 8 heap adds significant protection in the form of new integrity checks to help defend against many exploit techniques. In addition, the Windows heap now randomizes the order of allocations so that exploits cannot depend on the predictable placement of objects—the same principle that makes ASLR successful. We also added guard pages to certain types of heap allocations, which helps prevent exploits that rely on overrunning the heap.

    •Internet Explorer. “Use-after-free” vulnerabilities represented nearly 75% of the vulnerabilities reported in Internet Explorer over the last two years. For Windows 8, we implemented guards in Internet Explorer to prevent an attacker from crafting an invalid virtual function table, making these attacks more difficult. Internet Explorer will also take full advantage of the ASLR improvements provided by Windows 8.
    Windows 8 Security: Defender Antivirus Review

    Windows 8 Security: Defender Antivirus Review

    Microsoft is adding a bunch of significant new security features in Windows 8, including Early Launch Anti Malware (ELAM), Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI), and the first edition of Windows Defender to protect not just against malware but also against viruses. In this article, we'll describe Windows 8's overall security feature set, while also reviewing the new Defender and drawing comparisons between Defender and other antivirus (AV) packages, including the pre-existing Microsoft Security Essentials (MSE).
    Windows 8 | Security Features
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Windows Blue - small look at leaked build 9364
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