Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


The Non-Touch Windows 8 Offers a Worse Experience than Win

  1. #41


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    When thinking 8 out MS made the mistake of using a gui designed for a totally different platform rather then investing in developing a new touch and swipe Desktop gui for 8 that works well for the desktop platform and won't require 3rd party workarounds for most people to have made a usable OS for the layman. And it simply isn't just fast blog writers that are downplaying 8 but watch what is being observed by industry professionals who develop guis for the desktops on other OSs as they watch MS fumble the ball..
    Your words betray you.

    First.. A) Macs are crap, especially with how they deal with touch(or relative lack thereof) and B) what 'industry professionals'? Apple? All their people are off being applied to mobile, watches, and TV's. That company couldn't give two farts about PC's atm, they're viewed in Apple-land as an obsolete system, about to be replaced enmasse by tablets and other mobile devices. How do I know this? They remind us of it.. All. The. Time. And they have their fingers in the ears when we tell them that You. Are. Wrong.

    Oh.. and C) 'industry professionals' aren't the ones complaining about how the PC's have been updated for touch. Thats the Apple lovers, and people who don't know any better. From a developer standpoint, the way they interface with touch and pen is a dream to work with.

    The only hangup is transitioning people to touchscreen monitors... which is one reason i've highly suggested they simply come out with a high resolution 27-30" touchscreen monitor in the runup to Windows 9. I'd buy one. There simply isn't a 'sweet spot' touchscreen monitor to even consider for Windows atm. I've looked. And if you can't get the manufacturers to make a quality, well-designed product that will make Windows sing(whether from the SP, which allready supports high resolution monitors.. or from a desktop), provide quality angles to situate the monitor at, Microsoft should simply change the game and make it themselves.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #42


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    The search engines have already been out there for looking up anything for any version! Yet that won't be the first thing a typical user anguishes over when getting the first look at any newer version. The average joe wants to sit in front of the new pc and get busy doing things without any need to be Binging or "Googlatorizing" the experience just to get things to work.

    The task set before the software company is to simplify the process for the 'newbies of the world" taking that into consider when offering a new product to the greater degree as well as not pushing for the need to load on 3rd party apps due to any drastic gui changes that alter the direction from the same platform.

    With any version there will be the "Pros" and "Cons" since a good number of people reverted back from 7 to XP or Vista showing no matter how good a new version some will always find a problem to complain about. With 8 however unlike any previous version everyone is being forced to accept the touch and swipe tablet gui developed for ARM and Surface without "options" to revert to any form of the traditional Desktop! And that's where the 3rd party goers will be cashing in on the MS goober!

    Now if you think this is simply "8 Bashing" look again. I never stated any new developments for the core level of 8 were in error. In fact that's where you have to look to see the actual "Pros" being offered. The main problem is on the "Surface" in more then one sense due to a rash decision to make every platform look the exact same at the cost of the standard type desktop gui.

    When thinking 8 out MS made the mistake of using a gui designed for a totally different platform rather then investing in developing a new touch and swipe Desktop gui for 8 that works well for the desktop platform and won't require 3rd party workarounds for most people to have made a usable OS for the layman. And it simply isn't just fast blog writers that are downplaying 8 but watch what is being observed by industry professionals who develop guis for the desktops on other OSs as they watch MS fumble the ball..
    Regardless of what you say Windows had to change sometime, whether now or in the future, nothing stays the same forever, cars have changed, newspapers have changed, TVs have changed even homes have changed.

    Computers are changing they're not just a desktop anymore, they come in all shapes and sizes, the old Windows needed to be overhauled to adapt to new ways of working if some people can't accept that so be it. It might be a tough process but it had to be done.

    Hopefully in years to come we'll all laugh at what happened when the change came, in the meantime people are just going to have to accept the transition.

    Or Not.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #43


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    No one would say MS wouldn't eventually make changes. And no one would say the present form of Start orb and menu seen in Vista and 7 wouldn't see any large change there either. But if you look back at 3.1(Post #28) where no Start button/orb or Programs menu of any type was seen you will still see a common point for a dropdown menu option!

    The one thing to know however is that each new change seen in the Desktop OS has worked out for the Desktop platform it was developed for! With 8 however MS pulled a fast one sticking the RT tablet gui on everything for the intent of promoting Surface with Windows RT and ARM devices while short changing things at the desktop level. There's no way to ignore that no matter how hard anyone tries to sugar coat things!

    That's where it's at! MS made a marketing decision by substituting what could have been any type of new desktop gui regardless of what changes would have been brought in for a fast swap of the touch and swipe tablet gui on all platforms. This is why many immediately see "Mobile OS" or What in blazes? The industry pros out there are also scratching their heads wondering what MS is actually upto.

    The problem here isn't simply the need to go with any 3rd party workaround but MS stripping things out used for WMP as well as some other compatibility issues still being looked into which at this make it unsuitable for a second OS to work along side 7. I could care less about saving a few seconds on startup time since I can still open things right away before 7 finishes loading fully when needed and a few things will open right up not in need of every driver.

    The installation time was another item noticed when making comparisons as well. From both USB Install Keys as well as dvd installs it took longer for 8 to finish up then either Vista or XP! 7 on other hand is done in 20 each time while smoother installs by usb! 8 took a full hour for the CP and RP installs compared to the old XP/Vista 50min. not 39min. in actual time. At first you would think 8 was larger then Vista!

    The Plus factors on the other hand are things like MS for the first time including something that actually does find and remove malwares! The MS SE for Vista/7 on the other hand as well as the original Windows Defender have proven to be jokes at the comsumer expanse there! despite one being included and the other free to download. In that area you never really get any worth the bother for nothing unfortunately! The form of MS SE is now seen as the new form of WD in 8 there is where MS finally got it right!

    Now as for "transition"? I doubt I will be jumping on any tablets soon! I did buy a gift for some last year(smart book with the limited embedded form of 7 on it) and that was a waste of time since you couldn't log into anything with that stripped down form of IE! If tthe next "Windows Blue" reveals a new desktop strategy on the other hand over simply seeing a tablet gui slapped onto a newer core then you would have something there. It would still need to a "progressive desktop" type of change however as compared to what they did with 8.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #44


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    No one would say MS wouldn't eventually make changes. And no one would say the present form of Start orb and menu seen in Vista and 7 wouldn't see any large change there either. But if you look back at 3.1(Post #28) where no Start button/orb or Programs menu of any type was seen you will still see a common point for a dropdown menu option!
    In the tech business, you either Change.. or you get run over by Change. Its been that way since the start of the business. Anybody who even holds up just a little bit to rest on their laurels usually gets run over by the ten guys right behind him. Heck, Microsoft was trying and still found themselves run over in mobile and only now are starting to get a tiny foothold.

    Without the changes for touch to Windows 8, Surface Pro does not happen.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #45


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    The installation time was another item noticed when making comparisons as well. From both USB Install Keys as well as dvd installs it took longer for 8 to finish up then either Vista or XP! 7 on other hand is done in 20 each time while smoother installs by usb! 8 took a full hour for the CP and RP installs compared to the old XP/Vista 50min. not 39min. in actual time. At first you would think 8 was larger then Vista!

    Just for technical fun I just did a clean install and logged all time specs.

    First I imaged my system with acronis then I inserted an 8 pro bootable usb stick (flash / thumb drive).
    Clean install from usb stick to internal ssd to default start screen.

    Timeline: 4:35
    set usb to boot (first boot device) in bios
    clicked saved to bios and boot

    Timeline: 4:36
    boot to enter product key

    Timeline: 4:37
    click next > select custom install > delete all partitions on ssd > click next

    Timeline: 4:38
    screen display "getting files ready for installation" at 15%

    Timeline: 4:39
    screen display "getting files ready for installation" at 36%

    Timeline: 4:40
    screen display "getting files ready for installation" at 70%

    Timeline: 4:42
    screen display "getting files ready for installation" at 100%

    Timeline: 4:43
    automatic restart computer > booting > enter bios and change first boot device to ssd

    rebooting > enter pc name >
    Timeline: 4:44

    enter user name
    system generating welcome screens
    @ default start screen
    Timeline: 4:45

    Total time for clean installation from a usb stick to an internal ssd to default start screen = 10 minutes
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #46


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by DooRules View Post
    Fact: W8 offers an experience that most people have shown they want nothing to do with

    Fact: W8 is struggling in a big way for sales

    Fact: Slower uptake than even Vista

    Fact: Start button has not much to do with the whole 8 debacle, loss of choice sure does though

    Fact: Who even cares who uses Windows Media Center other than MS

    Fact: Sorry bud, you don't get to say what's normal and what's not

    Fact: Of course a lot of these people with tablets also have a home PC, imagine that now

    Fact: When ya feel the need to include w8 is good with a mouse you might want to figure out how the deep the hole you are in is

    Fact: List all the relevant facts you want, outside of OEM machines going off the shelf people are just not interested in w8, most especially at full feature price now.


    My way or the highway is a piss poor way to do business. But hey it's MS's OS, if they want to be less relevant going forward they are off to a bang up start.

    Did they actually make any windows 8 phones? still yet to see one in the wild.
    Most of your facts are opinions.

    And yes, I've personally seen a few Windows Phone 8 handsets out in the wild. But that's irrelevant when FACT, in three months Windows Phone 8 is already 50 percent of Windows Phone market share, something that took 7 two years.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #47


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    The search engines have already been out there for looking up anything for any version! Yet that won't be the first thing a typical user anguishes over when getting the first look at any newer version. The average joe wants to sit in front of the new pc and get busy doing things without any need to be Binging or "Googlatorizing" the experience just to get things to work.

    The task set before the software company is to simplify the process for the 'newbies of the world" taking that into consider when offering a new product to the greater degree as well as not pushing for the need to load on 3rd party apps due to any drastic gui changes that alter the direction from the same platform.

    With any version there will be the "Pros" and "Cons" since a good number of people reverted back from 7 to XP or Vista showing no matter how good a new version some will always find a problem to complain about. With 8 however unlike any previous version everyone is being forced to accept the touch and swipe tablet gui developed for ARM and Surface without "options" to revert to any form of the traditional Desktop! And that's where the 3rd party goers will be cashing in on the MS goober!

    Now if you think this is simply "8 Bashing" look again. I never stated any new developments for the core level of 8 were in error. In fact that's where you have to look to see the actual "Pros" being offered. The main problem is on the "Surface" in more then one sense due to a rash decision to make every platform look the exact same at the cost of the standard type desktop gui.

    When thinking 8 out MS made the mistake of using a gui designed for a totally different platform rather then investing in developing a new touch and swipe Desktop gui for 8 that works well for the desktop platform and won't require 3rd party workarounds for most people to have made a usable OS for the layman. And it simply isn't just fast blog writers that are downplaying 8 but watch what is being observed by industry professionals who develop guis for the desktops on other OSs as they watch MS fumble the ball..
    Are that incapacitated to click on a thing that says "Desktop" so much that you need the OS to boot to that first.

    I have a question for you and similar others, why are you here being a bother? I get it's your "opinion" and all, but what a vehement waste of time that is to argue something so pointless and mundane.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #48


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    Avast fre av does a little notification area pop up every now and again - tells you it has updated and sometimes asks if you want to get one their other products.

    If that came up covering the entire screen every time you booted up - and at frequent other intervals - it would be pretty annoying.

    Why? It is just one click to get past it.

    Do you get it now?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #49


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    Avast fre av does a little notification area pop up every now and again - tells you it has updated and sometimes asks if you want to get one their other products.

    If that came up covering the entire screen every time you booted up - and at frequent other intervals - it would be pretty annoying.

    Why? It is just one click to get past it.

    Do you get it now?
    No, because if you're supposed to be working you only boot up once a day, and in any OS you have to go to a different screen to change between programmes, so if that's annoying you shouldn't be using a computer.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #50


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    The installation time was another item noticed when making comparisons as well. From both USB Install Keys as well as dvd installs it took longer for 8 to finish up then either Vista or XP! 7 on other hand is done in 20 each time while smoother installs by usb! 8 took a full hour for the CP and RP installs compared to the old XP/Vista 50min. not 39min. in actual time. At first you would think 8 was larger then Vista!

    Just for technical fun I just did a clean install and logged all time specs.

    First I imaged my system with acronis then I inserted an 8 pro bootable usb stick (flash / thumb drive).
    Clean install from usb stick to internal ssd to default start screen.

    Timeline: 4:35
    set usb to boot (first boot device) in bios
    clicked saved to bios and boot

    Timeline: 4:36
    boot to enter product key

    Timeline: 4:37
    click next > select custom install > delete all partitions on ssd > click next

    Timeline: 4:38
    screen display "getting files ready for installation" at 15%

    Timeline: 4:39
    screen display "getting files ready for installation" at 36%

    Timeline: 4:40
    screen display "getting files ready for installation" at 70%

    Timeline: 4:42
    screen display "getting files ready for installation" at 100%

    Timeline: 4:43
    automatic restart computer > booting > enter bios and change first boot device to ssd

    rebooting > enter pc name >
    Timeline: 4:44

    enter user name
    system generating welcome screens
    @ default start screen
    Timeline: 4:45

    Total time for clean installation from a usb stick to an internal ssd to default start screen = 10 minutes
    Thanks for going to the trouble of quashing another Windows 8 myth, another myth bites the dust.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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The Non-Touch Windows 8 Offers a Worse Experience than Win
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