Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


The Non-Touch Windows 8 Offers a Worse Experience than Win

  1. #21


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Thanks Jimbo for the well thought out post. I just wish that I still had the ability to write a response like yours. Age, strokes and diabetes have done a number on my brain. Your response was very thoughtful and to the point, albeit you and I know that there are going to be those who just don't want, or will not try to put two and two together when it come t Windows 8.

    Thanks

    Appreciate that someone reads the post rather than just chucking Vitriol around without even attempting to check to see if they really CAN use W8 decently. Of course we all hope there will be changes - but I don't think that's the real point - changes inevitably happen --I can really say now that I don't miss the Menu at all and even when I'm using W7 I don't bother with it either.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Thank you!

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #22


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Fact, Windows 7 offers an experience that reduces the use of a pretty important and pretty old UI feature of Windows.

    Fact, fewer and fewer people were using the start menu in 7 in lieu of jumplists on Taskbar pin and pinning items to the Taskbar.

    Fact, few if any people use Windows Media Center.

    Fact, few if any people in the normal world buys a desktop PC.

    Fact, more people buy tablets and the definition of a computer is a laptop PC.

    Fact, Windows 8 works perfectly fine with a mouse and perfectly fine with a touchpad and perfectly fine with a touchscreen.

    What is not fact is the notion that none of the above is true, especially that 8 isn't suited for mouse usage, EVEN WHEN THE START SCREEN IS ACCESSED IN THE SAME FASHION AS THE START MENU.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #23


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Fact, Windows 7 offers an experience that reduces the use of a pretty important and pretty old UI feature of Windows.

    Fact, fewer and fewer people were using the start menu in 7 in lieu of jumplists on Taskbar pin and pinning items to the Taskbar.

    Fact, few if any people use Windows Media Center.

    Fact, few if any people in the normal world buys a desktop PC.

    Fact, more people buy tablets and the definition of a computer is a laptop PC.

    Fact, Windows 8 works perfectly fine with a mouse and perfectly fine with a touchpad and perfectly fine with a touchscreen.

    What is not fact is the notion that none of the above is true, especially that 8 isn't suited for mouse usage, EVEN WHEN THE START SCREEN IS ACCESSED IN THE SAME FASHION AS THE START MENU.
    I can confirm all those facts are true.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #24


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Fact, Windows 7 offers an experience that reduces the use of a pretty important and pretty old UI feature of Windows.

    Fact, fewer and fewer people were using the start menu in 7 in lieu of jumplists on Taskbar pin and pinning items to the Taskbar.

    Fact, few if any people use Windows Media Center.

    Fact, few if any people in the normal world buys a desktop PC.

    Fact, more people buy tablets and the definition of a computer is a laptop PC.

    Fact, Windows 8 works perfectly fine with a mouse and perfectly fine with a touchpad and perfectly fine with a touchscreen.

    What is not fact is the notion that none of the above is true, especially that 8 isn't suited for mouse usage, EVEN WHEN THE START SCREEN IS ACCESSED IN THE SAME FASHION AS THE START MENU.
    I concur
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #25


    Fact: W8 offers an experience that most people have shown they want nothing to do with

    Fact: W8 is struggling in a big way for sales

    Fact: Slower uptake than even Vista

    Fact: Start button has not much to do with the whole 8 debacle, loss of choice sure does though

    Fact: Who even cares who uses Windows Media Center other than MS

    Fact: Sorry bud, you don't get to say what's normal and what's not

    Fact: Of course a lot of these people with tablets also have a home PC, imagine that now

    Fact: When ya feel the need to include w8 is good with a mouse you might want to figure out how the deep the hole you are in is

    Fact: List all the relevant facts you want, outside of OEM machines going off the shelf people are just not interested in w8, most especially at full feature price now.


    My way or the highway is a piss poor way to do business. But hey it's MS's OS, if they want to be less relevant going forward they are off to a bang up start.

    Did they actually make any windows 8 phones? still yet to see one in the wild.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #26


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Fact, Windows 8 works perfectly fine with a mouse and perfectly fine with a touchpad and perfectly fine with a touchscreen.
    Based upon my earlier post, that is open to debate. Opinions here can't be changed so I'll go back to lurking.

    -jeff
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #27


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    My laptop has a 'trick' removable touch-pad which acts as a remote for watching videos etc when removed.

    It does not work particularly well on Win 8 (it's useable, tho), but the touch-pad on my older laptop is fine.

    Wenda.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #28


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by DooRules View Post
    Fact: W8 offers an experience that most people have shown they want nothing to do with

    Fact: W8 is struggling in a big way for sales

    Fact: Slower uptake than even Vista

    Fact: Start button has not much to do with the whole 8 debacle, loss of choice sure does though

    Fact: Who even cares who uses Windows Media Center other than MS

    Fact: Sorry bud, you don't get to say what's normal and what's not

    Fact: Of course a lot of these people with tablets also have a home PC, imagine that now

    Fact: When ya feel the need to include w8 is good with a mouse you might want to figure out how the deep the hole you are in is

    Fact: List all the relevant facts you want, outside of OEM machines going off the shelf people are just not interested in w8, most especially at full feature price now.


    My way or the highway is a piss poor way to do business. But hey it's MS's OS, if they want to be less relevant going forward they are off to a bang up start.

    Did they actually make any windows 8 phones? still yet to see one in the wild.
    That's accurate assessment! The "lack of choice" of course sums up the mishap seen with 8 while not seen when Vista first brought in the Aero style themes and settings! There you still had the what? "Choice of" Classic or Aero! This time around MS is simply saying use it the way it is or find some "3rd party app" in order to get back to some type of normal traditional desktop role. No choices included but stuck with awkward Tablet gui? Strike One!

    Now for those saying that the Start screen in 8 was developed separately for 8 better have a real look at what you see on both the RT and 8 as far as seeing the exact same thing and even the same Metro app and other buttons. Surprise! The exact same "designed for tablet touch and swipe" gui only the name change from RT to 8 for desktops and laptops since they don't use ARM. The main difference is the type of hardware platform despite the same thing being used on all. Makes them look nice! someone at MS says to him or herself.

    As for the Media Center that only goes back to the 2005 XP Media Center Edition when that was first seen and simply added to Vista and 7 as a new feature. Dvd playback and video codecs were first seen with WMP 10 not with 9 which came with XP. WMP 11 and 12 carried them over to Vista and 7.

    The MC tanked as an option in Windows anyways being too awkward at times to even get working and with a large variety of free as well as paid for players MS made the one "smart move" dumping that but also included trashing WMP along with it. Not so good for anyone who doesn't like VLC or going after some separate paid for player when WMP had always done the job. Strike Two for Media!

    Hidden Crawler tool bar, hidden unknown about right click menu for things like the Control Panel since there is no longer any Start menu>Settings to find your way around as well as no All Programs menu and Accessories which contained "System Tools" as well as paint and the command prompt options equal to "Strike Threeeeeee.... and you're out of there!" is just what people are saying once they run out to buy a new 8 pc coming up from XP or Vista and say "wtf is this crapola? How do you find... I prefer things simple and easy to find!" being the reaction of most on the spot!

    They compare this gui change to 95 but often forget to mention that while 95 took a bit to adjust to it was an actual "move forward" in seeing the desktop load automatically for a change plus a new Start menu when comparing that to no Start or Programs menu in 3.x! Yet MS still retained the "Shutdown to Dos Mode" option for running dos apps on 95. They bridged the gap to a degree having a little foresight at that time. This time however you are seeing far more "hindsight" since the motivation is marketing decision for new Surface Tablet and ARM devices.

    Now I can still say I miss running the old Legacy versions at times including 3.1 that "had no Start button or Programs menu" or pin to task bar since there never was any task bar to begin with!

    Click image for larger version

    How would you like to be seeing that instead of a working pin to task bar where you can add additional Quick Lauch "type" tool bars as well as knowing right where things are located? That would namely be having a Start button not a full screen of LARGE BUTTONS slapped in your face each time Windows starts up unless you press and hold the enter key right at the Welcome screen when not having any password, pin code, or image file assigned to log in with? (Note the one thing MS did improve was the option to use a pin code or image file login option)

    With 8 the actual improvements and some new features are buried beneath the confusion of trying to use an awkward gui without the bypass help offered by some 3rd party apps. When wanting to make any newer version more appealing to "everyone" not just a few "fall in love instantly cause it's new fan clubs" you the user to be enticed at the ease of learning how to use the newer version not be stumped by some new radical rush into mobile marketing strategy slapping on a gui "designed for tablet" despite the opposing view that being what it is which immediately turns off the new to use users who had been looking for something they can relate to when replacing that old XP museum piece.

    Now even when you look back at 3.1 which lacked a Start button and Start menu, Settings, All Programs menu what do you still find in the upper left hand corner? Something that centralized some functions like the EXIT option as well as Settings! In fact there was even a clock there since there was no task bar to put it on!

    Now as far as who buys what as their main device a great deal depends on budget as well as what it is used for. If you sit at a desk and want to view a larger screen, play pc games, run media apps on the home front you don't rush out and only buy what? A tablet? Give me a break! Most will grab an OEM deal for a new desktop or laptop depending on how much space they have as well as what they plan to be doing! Some people on the other hand spend thousands on custom built gaming laptops!

    Why? They want portability while still getting high end pc performance since you can't carry a high end custom case around with you too easily. Tablets won't work for that type of user! "Gee I can log into FaceBook on my ... phone!" Yeah and try moving around on some social network's web page on a 1" display. daaaaa...

    And lastly why would 8 sales slump? If you happen to be an old XP, Vista, or even 7 user but haven't been around pcs for a lifetime but more of a novice and get used to a "Simplified" desktop on one of the older versions and then toy around a little with a display model in a retail store for a look at 8 you may have some immediate "second thoughts" and then ask if something with an older version can still be found!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #29


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by DooRules View Post
    Fact: W8 offers an experience that most people have shown they want nothing to do with

    Fact: W8 is struggling in a big way for sales

    Fact: Slower uptake than even Vista

    Fact: Start button has not much to do with the whole 8 debacle, loss of choice sure does though

    Fact: Who even cares who uses Windows Media Center other than MS

    Fact: Sorry bud, you don't get to say what's normal and what's not

    Fact: Of course a lot of these people with tablets also have a home PC, imagine that now

    Fact: When ya feel the need to include w8 is good with a mouse you might want to figure out how the deep the hole you are in is

    Fact: List all the relevant facts you want, outside of OEM machines going off the shelf people are just not interested in w8, most especially at full feature price now.


    My way or the highway is a piss poor way to do business. But hey it's MS's OS, if they want to be less relevant going forward they are off to a bang up start.

    Did they actually make any windows 8 phones? still yet to see one in the wild.
    If it was my way or the Highway why did they leave Windows 7 virtually intact. I personally have no programmes that won't run on Windows 8 and they actually work better.

    I think one of the biggest problems with Microsoft over the years is that they've always carried over legacy code and other rubbish, at least this a reasonably clean new start.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #30


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    I like the way people talk about normal desktop, what is that, nobody in Linux seems to be able to agree, hence they have 2000 Distros for 2000 customers.

    Choice, you can use Metro or Desktop which is basically Windows 7.

    Metro is no different than IOS or Android in the way it generally works, swipes and touches or in Metro case Keyboard and mouse.

    Gamers don't buy a computer they build a computer, they don't worry about price they spend more on a video card than the price of Surface and they're using Windows 8 according to Steam. If they do buy a laptop they'd use the fastest operating system which is Windows 8.

    Any computer user that finds Windows 8 difficult to use there's a few search engines to quickly learn it. Problem is they probably also run into thousands of websites rubbishing Windows 8, which is why you always hear the same rhetoric, it's like Vista, ME and Zune.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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The Non-Touch Windows 8 Offers a Worse Experience than Win
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