Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


New Windows Boss Confirms

  1. #31


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    It is up to MS to fix what is putting buyers off.

    You holding them in contempt is not going to make them buy it. If they saw your posts , it would put them off even more. You are a reverse role model.
    But I don't want to go back to Windows 7 and the Start Menu, I like touch screens. Sure they can improve the Start Screen and some other stuff, I just don't want to go backwards.

    I don't want to end up in an attic with an old Windows 7 PC, I want devices I can move around with, and I want Windows 8 or something similar on there.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #32


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    Gadgets are Widgets, apps are small programmes, one click to the desktop, no need to shutdown apps or programmes in Windows 8, it's like IOS or Android., there's a $5 app that can resize Metro apps.

    Okay what else.
    To be perfectly honest, choice isn't a bad thing. People who compute for work and as a hobby are probably going to stay Windows, people who compute for play are being fought over by Google(those who like to some have control over their experience) and Apple(those who simply want it to work and for whom Facebook represents the epitome of high technology)

    Right now, Microsoft is positioning itself for big growth into the markets(but nobody will ever have as big a monopoly as they once had with the PC), Apple is starting to understand they're getting hung out to dry by both Google and Microsoft and are very much a hardware-dependent company, and Google is pretty much staying the course comfortable in doing what they do.

    Of these, Apple is the one with the worst strategy going forward, and it shows in whats happening with the stock price.
    I'm not even convinced they've got a strategy, they panicked when 7" tablets came out, and they panicked when the Surface Pro came out.
    I think they're like a ship without a rudder, imagine buying into their shares at $700 and the price going down to $400, and then the CEO coming out and saying,"Don't worry about the share price", nothing like losing half your money in a few months.

    Oh yeah and now they're bringing out a cheap plastic phone, something they've always rubbished and said they'd NEVER do, like the iPad Mini, 7" is too small.
    Sounds about right.

    And lol at anybody that buys a stock at $700. At that point the train has left the building. The only place it can go is to derail.

    The biggest thing is they really didn't make someone that could competantly step into Jobs's place. Especially given that Jobs himself probably poisoned a lot of wells with his opinions. As you said, the Mini got made in spite of him. And touch on the core systems is still in the dark ages because nobody there seems to be able to conceive of a use for a touchscreen over the size of a regular iPad.

    Hint: anytime you want applications to run independently of each other yet intercommunicate, and for which the internet is in no way an alternative(i.e. high security enviornments, security systems like a casino, hospitals, etc. just to name a few). Guess they don't get or have a need for touch, eh apple?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #33


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post

    To be perfectly honest, choice isn't a bad thing. People who compute for work and as a hobby are probably going to stay Windows, people who compute for play are being fought over by Google(those who like to some have control over their experience) and Apple(those who simply want it to work and for whom Facebook represents the epitome of high technology)

    Right now, Microsoft is positioning itself for big growth into the markets(but nobody will ever have as big a monopoly as they once had with the PC), Apple is starting to understand they're getting hung out to dry by both Google and Microsoft and are very much a hardware-dependent company, and Google is pretty much staying the course comfortable in doing what they do.

    Of these, Apple is the one with the worst strategy going forward, and it shows in whats happening with the stock price.
    I'm not even convinced they've got a strategy, they panicked when 7" tablets came out, and they panicked when the Surface Pro came out.
    I think they're like a ship without a rudder, imagine buying into their shares at $700 and the price going down to $400, and then the CEO coming out and saying,"Don't worry about the share price", nothing like losing half your money in a few months.

    Oh yeah and now they're bringing out a cheap plastic phone, something they've always rubbished and said they'd NEVER do, like the iPad Mini, 7" is too small.
    Sounds about right.

    And lol at anybody that buys a stock at $700. At that point the train has left the building. The only place it can go is to derail.

    The biggest thing is they really didn't make someone that could competantly step into Jobs's place. Especially given that Jobs himself probably poisoned a lot of wells with his opinions. As you said, the Mini got made in spite of him. And touch on the core systems is still in the dark ages because nobody there seems to be able to conceive of a use for a touchscreen over the size of a regular iPad.

    Hint: anytime you want applications to run independently of each other yet intercommunicate, and for which the internet is in no way an alternative(i.e. high security enviornments, security systems like a casino, hospitals, etc. just to name a few). Guess they don't get or have a need for touch, eh apple?
    We've been there before with AAPL and MSFT -- quite obvious what the Markets feel about the two companies whatever the short term pains of W8.

    BTW TODAYS PRICE at 11.26 Eastern standard time from US markets -- Bid price in USD AAPL 425.58 down a smidgen and still trundling at 52 wk low.
    MSFT at 28.16 up a smidgen and around midway between 52 wk low and high.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails aapl.png   msft.png  
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  4. #34


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    That's not how Linux works


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    If Linux has to build a couple of dozen different Distros to keep people happy ...
    That's not how Linux works.

    Someone uses a distro and then decides, "This OS would be great, if it was rewritten like this."
    Someone else uses that distro and says, "This OS would be great, if it was rewritten like this."
    etc.

    Try doing that with Windows.
    MS would have the lawyers and US Government kicking your door down.
    FBI involved in raid over Xbox secret - The West Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    But I don't want to go back to Windows 7 and the Start Menu, I like touch screens. Sure they can improve the Start Screen and some other stuff, I just don't want to go backwards.
    Neither do desktop users.

    This is entirely Microsoft's fault.

    All they had to do was offer a CHOICE during the install:
    • Desktop only (I could have chosen this)
    • Metro only (you could have chosen this)
    • Both (someone else could have chosen this)


    MS has never been able to master the concept of offering choices during OS installs.


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Sounds about right.

    And lol at anybody that buys a stock at $700. At that point the train has left the building. The only place it can go is to derail.
    ...
    We've been there before with AAPL and MSFT -- quite obvious what the Markets feel about the two companies whatever the short term pains of W8.

    BTW TODAYS PRICE at 11.26 Eastern standard time from US markets -- Bid price in USD AAPL 425.58 down a smidgen and still trundling at 52 wk low.
    MSFT at 28.16 up a smidgen and around midway between 52 wk low and high.
    Apple's stock price should only be about $90 (based on P/E ratio).

    Insane stock broker speculation is the reason it went to $700 and why it is still over $400.
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 07 Mar 2013 at 19:54. Reason: Spelling
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #35


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    If Linux has to build a couple of dozen different Distros to keep people happy ...
    That's not how Linux works.

    Someone uses a distro and then decides, "This OS would be great, if it was rewritten like this."
    Someone else uses that distro and says, "This OS would be great, if it was rewritten like this."
    etc.

    Try doing that with Windows.
    MS would have the lawyers and US Government kicking your door down.
    FBI involved in raid over Xbox secret - The West Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    But I don't want to go back to Windows 7 and the Start Menu, I like touch screens. Sure they can improve the Start Screen and some other stuff, I just don't want to go backwards.
    Neither do desktop users.

    This is entirely Microsoft's fault.

    All they had to do was offer a CHOICE during the install:
    • Desktop only (I could have chosen this)
    • Metro only (you could have chosen this)
    • Both (someone else could have chosen this)


    MS has never been able to master the concept of offering choices during OS installs.


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Sounds about right.

    And lol at anybody that buys a stock at $700. At that point the train has left the building. The only place it can go is to derail.
    ...
    We've been there before with AAPL and MSFT -- quite obvious what the Markets feel about the two companies whatever the short term pains of W8.

    BTW TODAYS PRICE at 11.26 Eastern standard time from US markets -- Bid price in USD AAPL 425.58 down a smidgen and still trundling at 52 wk low.
    MSFT at 28.16 up a smidgen and around midway between 52 wk low and high.
    Apple's stock price should only be about $90 (based on P/E ratio).

    Insane stock broker speculation is the reason it went to $700 and why it is still over $400.
    If you look at the minuscule uptake on Linux and yet everyone has a different idea of how it should operate. So if you took that over to 1.5 billion people and listened to everyone imagine the hodgepodge, you'd be somewhere between DOS and XP, if it ever got that far. Even today there's still a very large percentage on XP unwilling to move on.

    Oh yeah one bright spark analyst still claims Apple should be $1100, and they're making more and more products with less margin.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #36


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    I'd argue that relative to "Consumer Awareness", Linux is actually 2nd to Microsoft in usage.

    Everyone has heard of Windows and most desktop PCs run it (> 90%).
    Almost no one has heard of Linux (only IT workers and computer enthusiasts) and yet it is run on 1% - 2% of desktop PCs.

    What's Apple's excuse?
    Everyone has heard of Apple and yet it can only manage ~7% of the desktop PC market.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #37


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    I'm not entirely sure what the Mac problem is, but I do know they drop off just as fast as they hop on. I've seen a few major Apple Fanboys go to the Surface Pro and Windows 8 convertibles recently, so things could be looking a little better for Microsoft.

    I know I sometimes sound like an utter MS Fanboy but it's just that I like their direction, which is to better mobility which suits my lifestyle, even at home I don't like sitting at a desk too long, I'd rather sit in the comfort of my lounge.

    And don't get me wrong I've got nothing against Linux, I've got 3 Distros at the moment and I'm going to look for more, I particularly liked one a few years ago Dream Linux a media centre type Distro.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #38


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    I'd argue that relative to "Consumer Awareness", Linux is actually 2nd to Microsoft in usage.

    Everyone has heard of Windows and most desktop PCs run it (> 90%).
    Almost no one has heard of Linux (only IT workers and computer enthusiasts) and yet it is run on 1% - 2% of desktop PCs.

    What's Apple's excuse?
    Everyone has heard of Apple and yet it can only manage ~7% of the desktop PC market.
    The problem with Apple is they aren't tech heads. Jobs was. Jobs collected technologies like it was a hobby. Its not just about where you've been, and where you are, but where you can be based on whats currently out there. Both Apple, Microsoft, and Google are at the end of a chain of development. They didn't create LED's. They didn't create run-time operating systems. They certainly didn't create the technologies say the Internet was based on. They take whats available, typically buy it out, and evolve it into usable products to enhance their core lines. Its not about what you would Like to do... its about what Can be done.

    Right now both Apple and Google are feeding into the media's perception that its all about The Next Great Device. For Google, the Glasses thing actually seems pretty solid. They looked at a problem(people always looking down and monitoring their phones), and put a lot of current tech together to try to come up with an acceptable solution. Whether it will sell or not? Thats for the market to decide. Part of that is they have the core people in Larry Page and Sergey Brin that have a feel for what technologies are feasible to make.

    Apple(and their braindead fanbase), have exactly two statements that tell me they don't have a clue other than they want The New.

    The first is 'touch on desktops and laptops is pointless'. They've allready been proven wrong on the latter, they WILL be proven wrong on the former. ANYTHING that doesn't have the ability to go touch(even if you don't use it very much) is going to be a dead technology soon enough.

    The second is 'Desktops are going to be obsolete, they're going away.'. Uh, try no.. with an extra helping of NO. Desktop PC's aren't going anywhere. There will always be a setup that can torch a mobile device, simply because of the form factor. You think your stuff is hot now? Wait until Intel starts finding a way to commercially sell their teraflop boards to home users. All it takes is a killer app.

    And no, no gamer(not talking about those for whom Angry Birds is the highlight of their day) worth his salt can game with a crap mobile card. If it aint 60fps, the lag will destroy you. Video cards are lightyears beyond what you find in any mobile device. If Intel locks down the computation side, and drops a teraflop on your desktop, you're going to see games being developed that will be impossible on any console for a good while.

    Whether they have the foresight or not to do that is another story. I'd like to think that the main reason they formatted to a PCI-e form factor is precisely to jump the technology in the home, while still selling enmasse for data centers and supercomputers. Going massively parallel(50+ cores off a card) in the home is really the only place for the desktop to go for true game-changing performance.

    And also bear in mind that if you even sold 20K boards for home use, those home users could then build the world's largest ad hoc supercomputer. Imagine if you sold hundreds of thousands or millions.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #39


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    With Moores law why can't we eventually have super computer power processors built into mobile phones -- and with mega fast wireless may be 10 TB/sec or faster so you could actually wirelessly connect a mobile phone to a HUGE monitor with as good a response as sitting in front of a desktop computer attached to a monitor.
    Other wireless peripheral devices should make a phone size device more than capable of playing any game you could possibly want -- technology is moving this way in any case.

    I can run on a small LAPTOP IBM's original flagship MVS Mainframe operating system with TSO terminals without the laptop even using a fraction of an i3 processor. At the time IBM's Mainframe MVS system was running computers occupied a whole large wharehouse type room and needed water cooling. (Actually you can even run the modern O/S ESA/390 but that's not public domain. The old MVS 3.8J is public domain and actually is an EXCELLENT method for learning about OS'es since a large part of the source code is essentially available too).

    The response I get back from the laptop is much much faster than the original response you got from the "Old Mainframe".

    If I'd have said back in the 1970's that I could run this entire Mainframe on a small laptop computer (remember the PC had barely been thought of then) I'd have been given a quick one way trip to the nearest Mental Hospital.

    So I'd still say that DESKTOPS will die --quicker rather than later --even for people wanting extreme applications on them. The APPLICATIONS might not change much but the hardware used to run them on certainly will.

    Enc screenshot of IBM MAINFRAME MVS operating system running on a laptop with TSO session too. !!!

    Note the OS is actually RUNNING on the laptop --it's not CONNECTED to any mainframe and using terminal emulation.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails mvs1.png  
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  10. #40


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    With Moores law why can't we eventually have super computer power processors built into mobile phones -- and with mega fast wireless may be 10 TB/sec or faster so you could actually wirelessly connect a mobile phone to a HUGE monitor with as good a response as sitting in front of a desktop computer attached to a monitor.
    The problem they've been having is that they've approached the physical limits of the silicon for a single chip. Either way, the form factor of a desktop will always be bigger than that of a laptop, and the form factor of laptops keep getting smaller. You got folks who vision a form factor of like foldable paper for their computer. Thats fine, just don't try to claim it can do ALL the same things as that which sits in a tower unless the game isn't cutting edge.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Other wireless peripheral devices should make a phone size device more than capable of playing any game you could possibly want -- technology is moving this way in any case.
    There will always be better games that use the latest technology for which mobile devices, some of which may never see the light of day on mobile because they take way too much processing power.Most games will have a 'low settings' and most games will be able to can be rendered in some form on a mobile, but there will always be desktop to push the limits of what is possible.
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