Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Five reasons why Windows 8 has failed

  1. #71


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    I do actually program professionally.

    Apps are going to be what we used to call 'Lite' versions of a tool. A subset of your product is broken out and provided as a Lite version so that users can see what its all about. In the case of Photoshop, it has a lot of basic filters most people commonly use and the ability to do some fun stuff with a picture. In essence, its marketing Photoshop to millions of users(and their friends who see them using the functionality), and by extension the CS suite of Adobe products.

    If you want the full-blown tool, you go through the normal web channels of either buying the whole thing online or in a store.. or going through their subscription service. Expect to pay quite a bit.. whether over-time or upfront. Full product, you pay the big bux.

    As per the technicalities of Apps vs Applications... Apps are like Applications wrapped in a very tight condom. Everything they do must be stated up front to the user, and if its special functionality like say access to the webcam, you ask very nicely with a confirmation box, and you can't really go offroading with them into the really esoteric portions of a system like you can with an Application. Its also tends to be slower than compiled native code.

    That said, the backend of Windows as it currently sits Microsoft has nailed right to the wall. A lot of this stuff has been going in over years and nobody has really paid that much attention to it, especially if you programmed out of a traditional Windows Forms Application(like.. most developers).

    With the App side of it, there is no ignoring it as you have no other choice but to dive head first into XAML for the front end(RT doesn't understand Forms). What they've managed to do is set it up so honestly, you can build both an App or an Application with essentially the same code. Its simply a different project using the same code and being compiled differently. There are some exceptions(like displaying Vector Graphics), but you should be able to make an interface library for RT and one for the Win Application that use the same calls but backend to their different platforms, one for each Project.

    As such, whats good for one is good for the other.. like.. oh.. touch and pen. That stuff is native and baked right into the controls. I can display text, run the program, and immediately be able to pinch to zoom, scroll it with touch, whatever... all with not having to not write any touch-specific code for it.. it just works. Oh, and all previous libraries you've been writing in C#, VB, or C++ in previous years? That all works, either App or Application.

    Apple should frankly be scared, to be quiet honest. If Development Enviornments were the Space Race, Microsoft just landed on the moon and Apple is still launching Mercury rockets.

    I'm working my way through the Petzold book now(Programming Windows Edition 6). I highly suggest it for anybody who wants to get their footing and learn their way around the system. Most programs are very easy to understand and less than a page or so. Visual Studio 2012 Express for Windows 8 costs you nothing.
    Last edited by chrisa; 06 Mar 2013 at 03:29.

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  2. #72


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    It's just like the other standard fallback, "people hate change".
    People do hate change, on PC's. Part of that comes from the fact that they used to be so bloody hard and technical to use, that once you got it running in the way you liked.. you didn't want it to change because that meant you had to repeat the whole process :>.

    Vista in particular was excessively nasty on the population, especially in that it had very real technical issues when working with certain older games. The day I installed Windows 7 was the culmination of years of frustration as the game i liked playing started finally working properly and I haven't had another issue since.

    Pretty much the only reason i'm really giving Windows 8 a go is that with the Surface Pro, I can completely segregate it from the main system while getting familiar with it for work. Best move I ever made. If what they have setup gets up to speed with developers, its going to be an absolute locomotive rolling through the industry.
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  3. #73


    I'm giving Windows 8 a chance personally because it offers better performance.

    Other than that, I have no real hate on it overall. Though I have universal vengeance against Metro interface.

    But yes, I won't be installing it on my clients' machines. There's no way they can adapt to this change. No start menu? No Windows 8 on my company. Ever.

    Either Microsoft listen or I vote with my company's wallet.
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  4. #74


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    It's just like the other standard fallback, "people hate change".
    People do hate change, on PC's. Part of that comes from the fact that they used to be so bloody hard and technical to use, that once you got it running in the way you liked.. you didn't want it to change because that meant you had to repeat the whole process :>.

    Vista in particular was excessively nasty on the population, especially in that it had very real technical issues when working with certain older games. The day I installed Windows 7 was the culmination of years of frustration as the game i liked playing started finally working properly and I haven't had another issue since.

    Pretty much the only reason i'm really giving Windows 8 a go is that with the Surface Pro, I can completely segregate it from the main system while getting familiar with it for work. Best move I ever made. If what they have setup gets up to speed with developers, its going to be an absolute locomotive rolling through the industry.
    People may hate change like some I know that now have to look at 7 while having not wanted to even consider anything but XP for several years already. The time has come for that one to go "bye bye" since no one no longer provides drivers for it like when going out to buy a new board.

    So "you" yourself had problems with Vista. that wouldn't make it any universal problem since I never ran into any real problems and the only things that wouldn't run where those specifically written for XP like one old game. Metal of Honor: Allied Assault which by the way went right on the 32bit 7 and ran since 7 offered far more backward compatibility as well as seeing support for Fat restored in Windows. Your cell phones with usb, smart phones, IPads, IPhonies, digital cameras and camcorders use Fat as well as flash drives, External hard drives see exFat as well.

    All this pressured MS to put back what it had taken out of Win Vista due to new technologies. Gee what if a new desktop technology was introduced. Think MS might start getting back to work on the desktop platform? Well let's see new micro mini cases that are small power house pcs since the newer micro MBs offer more kick for the dollar.
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  5. #75


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    All this pressured MS to put back what it had taken out of Win Vista due to new technologies. Gee what if a new desktop technology was introduced. Think MS might start getting back to work on the desktop platform? Well let's see new micro mini cases that are small power house pcs since the newer micro MBs offer more kick for the dollar.
    Microsoft never 'left' or 'stopped working' on the desktop platform. I love how people somehow think that the Application Enviornment or the ability to compile and run non-RT executables is somehow going away.

    They aren't Apple lol.
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  6. #76


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Difference of architecture

    Attachment 17775

    Windows 7
    Victorian house with all the bells and whistles. Designed more on the vertical line. Quite nice if one likes this sort of style. Functions well.

    Attachment 17776

    Windows 8
    Frank Lloyd Wright's Falling Water. Ingenious. Designed more on the horizontal line. Flows well. A whole new look. This is more aesthetically pleasing to me.

    To each their own.
    Very nice comparison, Hippsie!

    Looks better, BUT the second one needs more maintenance even from the house perspective. Look where it's placed: I love nature, but you need to cut down the bushes and trees pretty often to stop the jungle from taking over in the house.
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  7. #77


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    C'mon peeps.

    we might all have our prejudices -- but in Europe (and increasingly in Asia) the Windows 8 Phones are doing quite nicely -- The Windows 7 and "7.5" versions were a bit of a dog but the Lumias are flying off the shelves and in a mature market -- that's no mean feat.

    (Also to everybody who are CONTINUALLY knocking W8 with 100's of THE SAME posts -- I think the main 2 offenders here know who I mean-- Really How difficult is it to use ANY version of Windows with the exception of Windows NT).

    Windows NT definitely was not at all "User friendly" for use as a desktop -- USB support was poor or non existent, Networking with RAS etc was a total nightmare and to try and add any typical new hardware required you almost to have a degree in Computer Science to get it configured. Fortunately Ms decided this was essentially destined to be a "Server" OS and modified it a bit to make the much more friendly (and actually a decent OS) Windows 2000.

    Anyway here's one for all the Computer Gurus to ponder :

    My 95 Year old Grandad took precisely 10 mins to use Windows 8 without ANY problems whatsoever -- and he actually PREFERRED it to Windows XP which is what he'd being using before.

    I had to install and set it up for him and get his applications sorted -- He uses a Touch screen Monitor and is happy with it -- he basically just uses Touch to get and start the application he wants such as one of his Trading programs and then uses the Mouse and keyboard as a typical desktop user -- he likes the BEST of the New while still retaining a lot of stuff he's used to.

    He STLL does a little Stock trading so he's just not casually surfing the web.

    If a 95 year old guy can get to grips with this after years of using XP I can't believe that :

    a) Windows 8 is impossible to use for people who are working primarily on a "Classic Desktop" - especially as I'd assume most of these users to be far more "Computer Savvy" than my 95 year old Grandad.

    b) Windows 8 is doomed to failure. I don't believe it for an instant -- Of course there needs to be some changes --everybody can always pick out features in ANY OS which they either don't like, have been poorly implemented or want changed in some way.

    Anyway Ms is in this for the long haul -- and often these days an old classic menu can be MORE of a hindrance than a help. -- Using two or three toolbars can make it a LOT easier than finding stuff in a Generic Menu with everything included as well as the kitchen sink.

    With the old Menu system you can't even select say a subset like OFFICE -- you have to select OFFICE from the MAIN menu and then select the Office product you want.

    I prefer a Toolbar of frequently used applications -- works a treat whether via just a toolbar or even via tiles on a Touch screen.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  8. #78


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    . It seems that we were right, and Kantar has just published new info on the global smartphone market. This info indicates that Windows Phone 8 has had a strong impact on the Windows Phone platform and that Microsoft’s mobile operating system is finally getting some significant traction.

    The best news comes from Europe where Windows Phone’s marketshare has more than doubled, with 5.4% compared with 2.6% back in 2011. Leading the pack is Italy where adoption has surged and Microsoft’s OS now accounts for a very healthy 13.9% of the market. Great news also comes out of Britain with 5.9%, up from 2.2% at the end of 2011. This is significant as the UK is one of Europe’s major markets and Windows Phone had previously been lagging there. However, this big increase tells Microsoft and its partners that they are finally doing something right.
    I said a couple of days ago that Italy had over 10% it's actually 13.9% and the UK looks to be doing well.
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  9. #79


    Posts : 902
    Win8.1 Pro, Desktop Mode


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    I give up.(snip)
    It's hard to imagine such a world....
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  10. #80


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    @Bill,

    You are hilarious.

    Pleased to see Nokia are getting some sales. I wouldn't have rejoiced if they had bitten the dust. I am not sure they are out of the woods yet, though.

    You might have noticed Samsung have enormous sales with their Galaxy things.

    Does that mean all those buyers are getting it purely because it carries Android?

    I don't think so. I think you will find there are plenty of phones carrying Android that are having a hard time.

    It is because of the Samsung product offering. Price , place, promotion and so on. They have made a device that appeals. They have priced it right. They have made it available thru the right channels, they have promoted it well, deals available through carriers are important and so on.

    What does that tell you about Android? Not very much - except perhaps it is no so loathed that it becomes a deal breaker.

    Nokia seem to be able to sell some Lumias . What does that tell you about w8 phone os? Not very much - except perhaps it is not so loathed it is a dealbreaker. It may be ok as a phone os.

    A dining fork is ok for eating your dinner.

    It is not ok for digging the garden.
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Five reasons why Windows 8 has failed
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