Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Microsoft Surface Pro review

  1. #71


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    Yes, PP that is the concern.

    We can't know yet - but is there really a huge market for this paving slab thing MS are doing?

    Hard to say. With tech/hardware/input methods we have now - and in the near future - they won't be able to get it to be as suited to both jobs as well as separate dedicated devices. Even the o/s itself doesn't do that.

    It might be possible to get it "good enough", such that it will be ok for a lot of people.

    Those who want proper fuctionality will still have the separate devices - not necessarily instead, perhaps as well as one of these paving slab jobbies. That's assuming they can justify the expense of all that stuff.

    Perhaps.

    That sort of defeats the purpose of it though.

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  2. #72


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    I bought a Windows tablet for several reasons. Firstly, I wanted to emulate my desktop when out and about; I did not want what Android and Apple offered, even though both have some pretty good apps. Secondly, most of the programs that I use will not run, or aren't available for, Android or Apple, so a Windows device was the logical choice. Thirdly, it enabled me to keep a consistent environment across all my home devices (though I probably could have adapted easily enough if points one and two didn't apply).

    But when I look around, I'm one of the very few people that really need/want a tablet with Windows desktop capability, and I have friends, relatives and colleges from a very wide range of social and employment backgrounds, and most people are completely happy with Android/Apple, some even scoff at the fact that I can run full Windows programs on my tablet. They also scoff at the battery time (around four hours) when theirs is around 10 hours. That doesn't bother me, as I always have power available, as that's the way I've planned it.

    So when we start talking about the removal of the start menu or the MPI and say that people don't want the former and prefer the latter, then that sort of kills the argument for a Windows desktop capable tablet as well. What you're describing are Android/Apple users, who use nothing but apps. To that end, it again seems to indicate that Microsoft should have provided two completely separate OS environments, Windows 8 and Windows RT, to cater for these separate user groups. Keep the Windows 7 users happy and prepared to upgrade, and provide an alternative OS to Android/Apple. What we have now is neither Arthur or Martha and it's beginning to show.
    Last edited by Ray8; 07 Feb 2013 at 23:27.
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  3. #73


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    I don't know how Surface is going to go, but I asked a big tech retailer yesterday if he was getting the new Surface Pro, he said yes but didn't know when. He said he was looking forward to getting them because he thought they would sell well.

    I asked him how Windows 8 laptops were selling, he said they were selling rather well. Not sure why I asked this, but I did, I asked if older guys were buying them, this is what he said. You've got to be kidding, as soon as they start playing with them they ask where's Windows 7 and he says this is Windows 8. To get them interested he says he will give them a free Windows 8 course and give them material to teach them, but they nearly always walk out without buying one.

    He said that most tell him they are still on Windows XP and have no interest in learning something new. This certainly seems to jell with what's going on around the world. Yet even though these older guys aren't buying, according to new figures at least, laptop sales are quite good, even if flat.
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  4. #74


    Well BillWindows:

    In my case, it has absolutely nothing to do with me not wanting to learn new things. I'm in IT and I have to learn new stuff continuously. I'm always learning new versions of Windows, Linux, network gear, storage equipment, etc. New versions of SQL, new versions of Exchange, new versions of the cell phones we support, new versions of all of the tablets we have bought...and I even had to learn all about the new touch gestures and teach my coworkers how to use our 5 all in one touch screen computers that are at the trade show this weekend.

    I know how to use Windows 8 no problem, I just don't like using it. It's not appealing in any way at all. So, I have elected to save my money and just stick with Windows 7 for the time being.
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  5. #75


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Well BillWindows:

    In my case, it has absolutely nothing to do with me not wanting to learn new things. I'm in IT and I have to learn new stuff continuously. I'm always learning new versions of Windows, Linux, network gear, storage equipment, etc. New versions of SQL, new versions of Exchange, new versions of the cell phones we support, new versions of all of the tablets we have bought...and I even had to learn all about the new touch gestures and teach my coworkers how to use our 5 all in one touch screen computers that are at the trade show this weekend.

    I know how to use Windows 8 no problem, I just don't like using it. It's not appealing in any way at all. So, I have elected to save my money and just stick with Windows 7 for the time being.
    This is the part I can't understand, surely a guy with your qualifications can see the benefits of what Microsoft is trying to do here, even though in your case I know you're having a few problems. Surely the end goal justifies the means.

    If Microsoft can get this altogether, you'll have a phone, a tablet and PC's all connected through the cloud, what am I missing here, why is everyone so upset. Actually you can count HTPC's into that as well, Windows 8 looks absolutely unreal on a HTPC running a dual core Atom CPU on a large screen TV.
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  6. #76


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    If you read anything from a major tech review site, such as the Verge, you'll find some bias against them.
    But is the bias truly a bias or just a genuine dissatisfaction overall? I'm not biased against Microsoft, but I certainly don't rave about Windows 8.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Also, to me, it seems the older the person that has worked in IT and seen Windows 3-95 or earlier to MS-DOS and such, seem to have more of a bias against Microsoft.
    Perhaps that is because we have seen and experienced more OS's and can better understand the efforts and struggles involved in getting to where we are. As IT folks too, we often have more experience working heavily with competing products and understand better what competitors are able to bring us. So, that may lead us to be more critical of the way that Microsoft does one particular task over another.

    For me personally, my biggest gripe is always with Microsoft because it's the system that I am somewhat forced to be on on my desktops (at work and and home). Since it's the one that I use the most, it's the one I am most likely to find issues with. Compared to work situations where when a linux box fits a situation better than Windows, then I deploy a Linux box. With desktops I don't find that I personally have that much choice.


    1. Cost of upgrading. If 8 isn't that appealing, why spend the money and upgrade from 7?
    2. Principal. Why upgrade to 8 and then spend $$'s and time on 3rd parties and such to make Windows 8 look and run like Windows 7? If nothing else, it just clutters up the box.



    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Also, the FACTS ARE THERE that start menu usage has been dropping. If a start menu continued on in Windows 8, it would get to the point where people would be criticizing Microsoft for not reacting to that earlier when they knew it wasn't being used enough.
    So leave the start as an option for those of us who were not declining in our use of the start menu. I think it worked great, fit me nicely for many years. I'm still using it on my Windows 7 machines now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Look at apple, the ipad and ios devices account for more than half the entire company to the point where they had to say they're on a war against the PC in general as the mac is being used less and sold less. That's what would happen, OS fragmentation and hardware fragmentation, device compromise almost. It's either pay 500 dollars for an ARM tablet and pay 450 for a PC to use for Office and iTunes. It's a crappy deal to pay almost 1,000 dollars for two devices to lug around with you, one you enjoy using with touch and the other is just there for tasks that you just can't do on the phablet as the OS can't do that, as it's limited by the smartphone counterpart. This is why Microsoft chose the route the did, combine the two devices and platform styles into one package that can work in different ways in the new UI style, and work with a mouse and work with touch. Windows is still one product and not fragmented and not in a position to be undercut.
    And only time will tell if this move was successful. I honestly don't think the majority of tablet type users need the power of a full fledged PC, and I'm not sure that they will see the advantages of it over the cost increase. As a desktop and laptop user, I'm not sure that I would be willing to sacrifice screen space and upgradeability of a destkop or laptop to get the form factor of a tablet.

    I'm perfectly content having 2 devices. Since I have a wife and 2 kids, the more devices the better. That way we can all use our devices without having to share. I think there are a lot of people out there like me.
    I'm not advocating upgrading to Windows 8 right after a company just already upgraded to Windows 7. That doesn't happen for obvious reasons. The situation where Windows 8 will be used is more alongside with Windows 7, 8 will be on new PCs that are bought and usually will be touch capable. When the time is right, the newer Windows version of the time, whether that be Windows 8 or 9 or 10 will be upgraded to in the whole company, IDEALLY. The proper situation is with a company running xp, going from xp to 8 has the most to benefit from, from a whole SLEW of features and UI changes.

    There aren't really many third party tools needed to make Windows 8 run a more Desktop centric work scenario. Actually, it takes about five minutes of time, pinning things to Start, arranging tiles, and changing program defaults. If one wants to apply a custom image to the Start Screen, they can if they want. Most IT admins probably wouldn't care either way and would just keep the defaults there. Personalization is counterproductive to some IT people.

    Time will tell a lot of things. Retrospectively, needing to keep the Windows Classic theme in Windows 7 wouldn't had made any sense whatsoever in Windows 8, where a focus on a new UI and reducing OS footprint was at the forefront. Literally VERY few people use Windows 7 in the Classic theme, VERY few. Is that a theme worth the while to keep in Windows 8? No. Was needing to keep a Classic theme in Windows xp to keep some people happy with a new OS with a new and different UI worth it? Probably not. Is the Start Screen the same thing as the start menu, except a full screen, worth the time to keep a UI option very few people would need to use for a short while before they get adjusted to the changes? No, not really. All that would do is just delay ripping the band aid off that will end up coming off eventually.

    And time will tell about the tablet PC. I say people will make the compromise of a phablet and a PC. Why? The smartphone is a great example of a compromise lower picture quality and being able to take pictures at a whim. There is also another compromise of limited storage space and using an ipod classic with more storage space for digital content. And another good example is the laptop. There is a compromise of processing power, screen size, hard drive space, and keyboard. Yet, the laptop is has greatly outsold the desktop year after year.
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  7. #77


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    I don't know how Surface is going to go, but I asked a big tech retailer yesterday if he was getting the new Surface Pro, he said yes but didn't know when. He said he was looking forward to getting them because he thought they would sell well.

    I asked him how Windows 8 laptops were selling, he said they were selling rather well. Not sure why I asked this, but I did, I asked if older guys were buying them, this is what he said. You've got to be kidding, as soon as they start playing with them they ask where's Windows 7 and he says this is Windows 8. To get them interested he says he will give them a free Windows 8 course and give them material to teach them, but they nearly always walk out without buying one.

    He said that most tell him they are still on Windows XP and have no interest in learning something new. This certainly seems to jell with what's going on around the world. Yet even though these older guys aren't buying, according to new figures at least, laptop sales are quite good, even if flat.
    Bet you anything if those older guys use a phone, it's probably an android.

    Market research seems to show this....
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  8. #78


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Bet you anything if those older guys use a phone, it's probably an android.

    Market research seems to show this....
    Hang on! Bill is supposed to be one of those older guys. Have you just given away something that wasn't supposed to be revealed?
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  9. #79


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Bet you anything if those older guys use a phone, it's probably an android.

    Market research seems to show this....
    Hang on! Bill is supposed to be one of those older guys. Have you just given away something that wasn't supposed to be revealed?
    Ummmm...... what?

    MOST older people aren't into change, and some market data I've seen shows that they're more likely to use android. Usually when I'm at an att or Verizon and some older person is buying their first smartphone, it's generally an android. Why? I can't say. Price maybe? Hardware configurations? I don't know. It's disgusting to use and I feel it is a great disservice.
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  10. #80


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Bet you anything if those older guys use a phone, it's probably an android.

    Market research seems to show this....
    Hang on! Bill is supposed to be one of those older guys. Have you just given away something that wasn't supposed to be revealed?
    Yes but I'm not your normal older guy, I embrace change, when I talk to sales people in tech stores they're blown away by what I know about the various phones, tablets and Pc's.
    I'm not saying this to be superior, it's just the way I am, my brother and sister are the same, we're all very interested in tech. To me it seems odd that Windows users would complain about something that will benefit them in the long run.
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