Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Chromebooks vs Windows

  1. #41


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    In Australia, schools/universities are handing out iPads to their students 'to enhance the educational experience', some even make it mandatory; however, most students admit to using the iPad for facebook, youtube etc, it forms no part of a demonstrable education tool. Yet schools keep on this path.
    I think it's so stupid for so many reasons. First off, ios isn't manageable through Group Policy or through the Windows Azure service like Windows RT or Windows Phone can be, so what ends up happening are time wasting things being allowed on said devices. Second, they're BLOODY expensive! 500 dollars and can't be used to properly make a Word document! If the money was there, third party addons and certain printers would need to be used to get around that hindrance. Third, the serious potential of wireless network congestion of all these devices trying to share and send and receive all sorts of files through the Cloud because there isn't a simple USB port to easily transport a file to some other device, or it would be cumbersome to have 20 some ipads needing to be connected to a PC running iTunes to grab a file or two off it, if considering a Word document or an equivalent can be saved and copied off of it. That's considering IF the school is fully wirelessly networked, not all of them are. So added IT costs of doing wireless network retrofits in older buildings that were networked with the Ethernet are piled onto that.

    Honestly, the only thing I can think of that would the reason to use an ipad is just for ebooks, as manipulating an ebook with touch is better than use a touchpad or a mouse. There are benefits to using ebooks as content can be customized for the class and can be up to date quicker than a physical text. But for that short and long term price? It's not terribly fruitful, no pun intended.

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  2. #42


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post

    I installed Chrome onto my Linux PC to have a look at what it's all about, having to sign up to a Google account meant that there was no way that I'd use it. In fact, the only Google tool that I use on my Windows devices is Google search, it still produces better search results than Bing.

    But what I use and prefer doesn't represent the vast majority of people who are prepared to sign up to a Google account and allow Google to install all and sundry on their PC or whatever. If I were to use it, it would be an entirely standalone device that was completely isolated from anything else.

    Naturally I signed up to a Microsoft account, but why I couldn't use an existing email account and had to create a Hotmail one is annoying, I have enough email accounts already. Especially since I have all of my licenced Microsoft software registered to a completely different email address, including the Windows 8 and WMC downloads.

    But this thread has nothing to do with that; however, talking things off-track when one's beliefs are challenged appears to be a common tactic. Very common when it comes to forums, regardless of their nature.
    You actually can use literally ANY email address for the Microsoft account. The last person I installed Windows 8 ended up needing to use the Mail app, so we had to make a Microsoft account with his Yahoo! email address. Worked quite fine.
    I must have missed something in the installation process, as it wanted a Microsoft account created, which became a Hotmail account. It may have had something to do with the initial frustrating installation procedure, which didn't want to work for love or money.
    Youre wrong Ray, I installed Windows 8 on my wife's computer, with a local account and a Bigpond email address. Later I added a Global account to easily Sync settings and Hotmail etc.

    It has been shown in a lot of cases that these schools have no technical knowledge about why they're handing out iPads it's just a cool thing to do. Like the woman who lined up outside an Apple Store all night to buy 5 iPhone 5's because she thought they were $200 each. They've asked people why they buy an iPhone, is it because of the features, what are features.

    It's a crazy mixed up world, I just hope some sanity prevails. I don't particularly want to see Android or IOS to disappear, I think they have their purposes, even the Cromebook, but I really think we need one OS, Windows 8 or a derivative there of to succeed to bring everything together.
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  3. #43


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I'd rather just see ios leave.....
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  4. #44


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    A chromebook in the educational setting I feel is the most detrimental experience for that child's education pertaining to technology.
    In some respects it's not a bad idea at all. They are cheap, and mostly the files are not stored on the device. So, if the device is stolen or crashed, you don't lose your data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    In most jobs, needing to know how to use an Office product is a prerequisite that should be known.
    But experience with any word processor and any spreadsheet will assist you. If you know how to use others, learning MS Office really wouldn't be that big of

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    google docs can't totally match what Office can do. google docs can't even match the Office Web Apps at its current stage.
    The beauty of Google docs is simplicity, cross platform support, and ability to collaborate. Nothing has to be installed. Why do you think that MS even created the free web apps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    A better option for the educational space is to use Windows RT tablets, if an OEM can make a cost effective tablet PC ideally in the 300 dollar range (which is honestly WAY possible considering there are legitimate 300 dollar x86 based laptops with 17 inch screens). This would be LOADS better since Office software is there to use, the latest and greatest, along with the new Windows that will be used in the enterprise space in 10 years, not prone to viruses or malware, and based off a SSD so no performance issues.
    RT tablets are not suitable here. They don't run real Windows software. And even though you say it's possible to make one for $300, nobody is yet. I don't think RT has enough of a footprint to determine it's security and likelihood of viruses and malware.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I think it's so stupid for so many reasons. First off, ios isn't manageable through Group Policy or through the Windows Azure service like Windows RT or Windows Phone can be, so what ends up happening are time wasting things being allowed on said devices.
    Well, let me tell you something. Enterprises are bending over backwards to support iOS devices...and it seems many don't care about their inability to manage them. 5 years ago I would have said no business in their right minds would have Mac's, iPhones, iPad's, or Androids as none could be managed. Well, my company has all of those things and they are only getting more and more popular.

    There is a lot changing in the computer industry these days. Apple has always done a good job figuring out products of the future and introducing them before the people even knew they needed them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Third, the serious potential of wireless network congestion of all these devices trying to share and send and receive all sorts of files through the Cloud because there isn't a simple USB port to easily transport a file to some other device
    I don't really think this is a big issue.
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  5. #45


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    but I really think we need one OS, Windows 8 or a derivative there of to succeed to bring everything together.
    I don't think that i have ever disagreed more with a statement made on this forum. We don't need 1 OS, we need interoperability between our devices. We need standards that are followed and agreed upon.
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  6. #46


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    but I really think we need one OS, Windows 8 or a derivative there of to succeed to bring everything together.
    I don't think that i have ever disagreed more with a statement made on this forum. We don't need 1 OS, we need interoperability between our devices. We need standards that are followed and agreed upon.
    Indeed, it's not what drives something, but how it plays with others.
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  7. #47


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    A chromebook in the educational setting I feel is the most detrimental experience for that child's education pertaining to technology.
    In some respects it's not a bad idea at all. They are cheap, and mostly the files are not stored on the device. So, if the device is stolen or crashed, you don't lose your data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    In most jobs, needing to know how to use an Office product is a prerequisite that should be known.
    But experience with any word processor and any spreadsheet will assist you. If you know how to use others, learning MS Office really wouldn't be that big of

    The beauty of Google docs is simplicity, cross platform support, and ability to collaborate. Nothing has to be installed. Why do you think that MS even created the free web apps?


    RT tablets are not suitable here. They don't run real Windows software. And even though you say it's possible to make one for $300, nobody is yet. I don't think RT has enough of a footprint to determine it's security and likelihood of viruses and malware.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I think it's so stupid for so many reasons. First off, ios isn't manageable through Group Policy or through the Windows Azure service like Windows RT or Windows Phone can be, so what ends up happening are time wasting things being allowed on said devices.
    Well, let me tell you something. Enterprises are bending over backwards to support iOS devices...and it seems many don't care about their inability to manage them. 5 years ago I would have said no business in their right minds would have Mac's, iPhones, iPad's, or Androids as none could be managed. Well, my company has all of those things and they are only getting more and more popular.

    There is a lot changing in the computer industry these days. Apple has always done a good job figuring out products of the future and introducing them before the people even knew they needed them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Third, the serious potential of wireless network congestion of all these devices trying to share and send and receive all sorts of files through the Cloud because there isn't a simple USB port to easily transport a file to some other device
    I don't really think this is a big issue.
    I've known Office my whole life and used it my whole life. I was asked by someone a while ago how to fix a format issue in OpenOffice, I was TOTALLY and COMPLETELY lost to the point where I needed a GPS. Yes, a very basic grasp of the inputting data is one thing, but actually interacting the with program itself becomes a whole different issue. I know how to do a Word document or a spreadsheet, but my knowledge of Office doesn't translate into a working knowledge of OpenOffice, and the same goes the other way around.

    Yeah, Microsoft made the Web Apps because of google docs, but what they offer is right now a lot better than google docs. That's the beauty of the Office Apps, it's free, cross platform, can be used in the cloud and locally on the PC, and able to collaborate easily, even with the locally installed software as well. It has a proper amount of simple and slightly advanced function that google docs, from what I've seen, can't do. Not everyone is simple.

    It's strange that the enterprise is bending over backwards to support ios, I feel it's mostly because if a network and usage scenario can be set up where the vast majority of people that are using an ios device at home can then take that device with them to work, it's less hassle for an IT staff to deal with, which means lower costs in the long term. It's popular because that means the workers can do whatever they want on the device they use and like without being restricted by an anally uptight IT department. But then that leads to the issue of data security with sensitive information, which right now seems like android and Windows Phone seem more ideal than ios in that respect. As I see it, the iphone is the reverse of the Blackberry: a consumer device can't work properly in the enterprise space and an enterprise device can't succeed in the consumer space.

    Now, about Windows RT, you can't run traditional Windows software on it, of course. But you obviously can't with a chromebook, which makes it even more of an issue. Windows RT offers Office Home and Student, not a stripped down text editor and formatter online. And again, this goes back to not knowing HOW to use Office. The enterprise doesn't adjust rapidly to new software standards, unsurprisingly. Going from Office to google docs or whatever isn't going to happen for a good lengthy time. Yes, in the future, probably more companies and corporations might use something else other than Office, but it will probably be a majority using Office. This will depend on things like cloud technology and incorporation of it into the software, and licensing fees. For example, Office 365 is what Microsoft is pushing as it's the actual Office software, but on subscription basis. A few government agencies and I think a few companies have switched to using Office 365 and will be rolling it out later this year as they've found, like in the city of Chicago for example, a savings of I think 14 million dollars in the short term just for using Office 365.

    Anyways, I'd rather rollout Windows RT in the educational setting as one, it has a good Office suite that isn't present with google docs. Two, it's the new Windows that will be adopted for sure in the future and is the new interaction method with touch computing on the PC. There is a difference between using a PC with a touch screen and using a smartphone based tablet with touch. Three, potential low cost devices that need to be there for this to work, why this hasn't happened baffles me as some OEMs have made low cost android tablets and low cost laptops but yet can't figure out how to make a low cost Windows RT tablet. There is also the fact that local storage can be used versus purely cloud based. Just this past Friday I think, Outlook.com was down for maintenance. What if the google cloud was down for maintenance? What was once safely secured data that won't get lost now becomes data that can't even be retrieved due to no fault on that student. Which then ties back to a point I was going to make earlier, what if your data was saved on the cloud and it was down and a presentation or essay had to turned into a certain time? You can't use the excuse that the cloud was offline and that's that, that is YOUR personal responsibility to make sure your important data is backed up and saved on something else other than just one basket per se.
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  8. #48


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    but I really think we need one OS, Windows 8 or a derivative there of to succeed to bring everything together.
    I don't think that i have ever disagreed more with a statement made on this forum. We don't need 1 OS, we need interoperability between our devices. We need standards that are followed and agreed upon.
    Well that's NEVER going to happen as far as I can see and seeing as how Microsoft already owns 92% of the PC world, it makes sense to me at least, that to keep some kind of compatibility and interoperability between devices MS has to be the one to come out on top.

    Also based on that and cost factors again MS. I read a story where a school bought several thousand iPads and I think Apple gave them something like $20 off the retail price. I really don't think anything else is ready at this time.
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  9. #49


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I've known Office my whole life and used it my whole life. I was asked by someone a while ago how to fix a format issue in OpenOffice, I was TOTALLY and COMPLETELY lost to the point where I needed a GPS. Yes, a very basic grasp of the inputting data is one thing, but actually interacting the with program itself becomes a whole different issue. I know how to do a Word document or a spreadsheet, but my knowledge of Office doesn't translate into a working knowledge of OpenOffice, and the same goes the other way around.
    Maybe it's an advantage then to spend some time in the alternative products. I just think that with the basics, and a short amount of time people will figure out the alternative products.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    It's strange that the enterprise is bending over backwards to support ios, I feel it's mostly because if a network and usage scenario can be set up where the vast majority of people that are using an ios device at home can then take that device with them to work, it's less hassle for an IT staff to deal with, which means lower costs in the long term. It's popular because that means the workers can do whatever they want on the device they use and like without being restricted by an anally uptight IT department. But then that leads to the issue of data security with sensitive information, which right now seems like android and Windows Phone seem more ideal than ios in that respect. As I see it, the iphone is the reverse of the Blackberry: a consumer device can't work properly in the enterprise space and an enterprise device can't succeed in the consumer space.
    You don't have to tell me how strange this is. I've been working in IT since 1997 and I'm amazed how we went from having to use Blackberrys because we can control them and not letting a person bring in any device from home and connecting to the network....to a world where we allow people to bring in their own devices instead of using corporate provided equipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Now, about Windows RT, you can't run traditional Windows software on it, of course. But you obviously can't with a chromebook, which makes it even more of an issue.
    Right, but the RT device is a tablet, without a keyboard and 2x as expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    For example, Office 365 is what Microsoft is pushing as it's the actual Office software, but on subscription basis. A few government agencies and I think a few companies have switched to using Office 365 and will be rolling it out later this year as they've found, like in the city of Chicago for example, a savings of I think 14 million dollars in the short term just for using Office 365.
    Yeah because historically MS office has been outrageously expensive. Look at the number of people who pirate MS office, it's a lot...because it's expensive. That's why I have experience using other software options because I don't pirate and I spend the money. Well, having 3+ computers at home means Office gets expensive. So, I use Google Docs, or Office Web Apps instead (I prefer to save hard drive space not having copies locally installed anymore).

    The Office365 concept is interesting. I've actually been considering trying it out for a year. For $100 for up to 5 PC's, it's not a bad deal. But I do have Office 2010 on my work laptop and I bring that home from work daily, so if I actually need office I can just do it there. So I will likely just skip Office 365.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Anyways, I'd rather rollout Windows RT in the educational setting as one, it has a good Office suite that isn't present with google docs. What if the google cloud was down for maintenance? What was once safely secured data that won't get lost now becomes data that can't even be retrieved due to no fault on that student. Which then ties back to a point I was going to make earlier, what if your data was saved on the cloud and it was down and a presentation or essay had to turned into a certain time? You can't use the excuse that the cloud was offline and that's that, that is YOUR personal responsibility to make sure your important data is backed up and saved on something else other than just one basket per se.
    Personally, I think RT is a dead product and it's not going to be around much longer.

    I think the likelihood of a student losing a file due to a cloud outage is less then the risk that they will lose the file themselves by getting a virus, malware, losing the laptop, etc. And like anything else, you gotta back up your stuff. I don't just keep 1 copy of my files at home, I make backups. The same should go for cloud storage, especially if you are a student, in school. Nothing is more important that your papers. You can easily backup any files that you store in the cloud to your local computer, a USB key, etc.
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  10. #50


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    Well that's NEVER going to happen as far as I can see and seeing as how Microsoft already owns 92% of the PC world, it makes sense to me at least, that to keep some kind of compatibility and interoperability between devices MS has to be the one to come out on top.
    But when you have 1 and only 1 company running the show, as consumers you don't get much choice and you are held over a barrel. I want iOS, and Chrome, and Linux to survive and thrive, because it's the only way that we get MS products to improve as well. That's why I disagreed in principal on that statement because if we only had 1 OS...I fear that we would lose a lot.

    Imagine where we would be right now if Apple had not released the iPhone. The entire world had to scramble because their device at the time was "revolutionary". We might still have flip phones and Blackberry's.

    And probably the most overlooked Apple product....the iTunes store. It's not the iPod that is the real winner, or the iPhone or the Ipad...it's the iTunes store ecosystem. So successful, that Microsoft has become intent on trying to mimic it with the Microsoft Store.

    We need innovation and competition. We need products like iPad's, and Chromebooks and Firefox , and Google Docs, Open Office and AMD to succeed and not hold just a tiny fraction of the market but be a formidable contender that you really have to fear and combat against. This is the only way Windows will continue to evolve and grow.

    Nobody truly knows what the future is going to hold, but I would be a lot more comfortable if Microsoft wasn't the 92%-100% visionary holders in that stake, but rather other companies were also competing and setting directions which might be different than the ideas coming out of Redmond, WA.
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