Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8 uncertainty blamed for decline in PC sales

  1. #241


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    There's reverting to start menu replacements versus learning or figuring out that one can pin pretty much EVERYTHING the start menu had and more. There's using the metro apps that don't do too much instead of the user's original software, such as Zune or iTunes or Media Player or Media Center or VLC player over the Xbox Music app. There's not changing program defaults to use certain software, like Desktop apps, over the apps and complain about it being inferior. There's also the notion that it seems that one has to work either in the Desktop or the immersive environment versus both. Right now, I'm typing this in the Desktop version of IE as I chose to have it set to that when I opened a hyperlink from Outlook. I would normally do it in the immersive IE. I have music playing in the Music Info app and I can easily work between the two just fine.

    Then there's just killing everything new and different in the UI of Windows 8 and plastering it with Windows 7's UI style....
    The fact that people like to do things differently, does not make their choices ineffective. The fact that people modify what Microsoft has forced onto people indicates that, to them, Microsoft's way is ineffective for their way of working.
    By that line of thinking, if I used VLC player over Windows Media Player, is that ineffective and a failure on Microsoft's behalf? They forced Media Player on me and I refused to use it.

    Or, if I had to change the Taskbar size in Windows 7 to the traditional size, is that failure on Microsoft's behalf for forcing a giant fugly Taskbar on me when I never asked for it and don't want to learn how to use even though it is better?

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  2. #242


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    I had Windows 8 on my tablet and finally removed it and went back to Windows 7, as I found the apps to be quite pointless and so was always in desktop mode. One day when Microsoft updates Windows 8 and makes it so that it's not an either/or OS, then I may put it back. That may be the time when I move over fully to Windows 8 on my desktop. For the moment it's there because I have the storage capacity and can delve into and understand it's better features, but it serves no functional purpose at the moment.
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  3. #243


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    It reminds me of ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Then there's just killing everything new and different in the UI of Windows 8 and plastering it with Windows 7's UI style....
    The fact that people like to do things differently, does not make their choices ineffective. The fact that people modify what Microsoft has forced onto people indicates that, to them, Microsoft's way is ineffective for their way of working.
    It reminds me of the GNOME 3, Ubuntu Unity and "auto-ad search" debacles.
    The difference is that, unlike Windows users, Linux users can simply switch to a different distro.

    GNOME and Ubuntu said, "Use it our way or else!"
    A lot of users replied, "Take your interface and shove it where the sun doesn't shine!"

    The makers of Linux Mint are celebrating those 2 GUI changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    By that line of thinking, if I used VLC player over Windows Media Player, is that ineffective and a failure on Microsoft's behalf?
    Yes.
    WMP 12 is awful.

    I can't understand why W7 is so good and WMP 12 is so bad.
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  4. #244


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    By that line of thinking, if I used VLC player over Windows Media Player, is that ineffective and a failure on Microsoft's behalf? They forced Media Player on me and I refused to use it.

    Or, if I had to change the Taskbar size in Windows 7 to the traditional size, is that failure on Microsoft's behalf for forcing a giant fugly Taskbar on me when I never asked for it and don't want to learn how to use even though it is better?
    No, that's an option that you have; to use alternative products/setups that may better suit your needs or your style, nothing new under the sun there. But those options play nice in the desktop, for which they were intended.

    The apps/start menu doesn't give you those options, it's set in concrete (for the moment). All it gives you is a very, very, large mobile phone interface. I can understand that on the Surface RT and other Arm based devices, but not with 8, which is designed for desktops as well.
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  5. #245


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    By that line of thinking, if I used VLC player over Windows Media Player, is that ineffective and a failure on Microsoft's behalf? They forced Media Player on me and I refused to use it.

    Or, if I had to change the Taskbar size in Windows 7 to the traditional size, is that failure on Microsoft's behalf for forcing a giant fugly Taskbar on me when I never asked for it and don't want to learn how to use even though it is better?
    No, that's an option that you have; to use alternative products/setups that may better suit your needs or your style, nothing new under the sun there. But those options play nice in the desktop, for which they were intended.

    The apps/start menu doesn't give you those options, it's set in concrete (for the moment). All it gives you is a very, very, large mobile phone interface. I can understand that on the Surface RT and other Arm based devices, but not with 8, which is designed for desktops as well.
    Then by that line of thinking, if you use Windows 8 on a desktop and work in the Desktop, that's your option. Take away a new UI and apps, it is literally a better Windows 7. If you use the Start Screen and the Desktop, you still simply have a better Windows 7 with a start menu that is full screen and visual and shows more items than the start menu ever could. The way to get to both is still the same between Windows 7 and 8, just doesn't have a shiny pearl orb.
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  6. #246


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Then by that line of thinking, if you use Windows 8 on a desktop and work in the Desktop, that's your option. Take away a new UI and apps, it is literally a better Windows 7. If you use the Start Screen and the Desktop, you still simply have a better Windows 7 with a start menu that is full screen and visual and shows more items than the start menu ever could. The way to get to both is still the same between Windows 7 and 8, just doesn't have a shiny pearl orb.
    You still don't understand. I can ignore the apps/start menu entirely by installing third party software that overrides the OS. But that's a kludge, why isn't that available natively (rhetorical question, because it's the way Microsoft designed it)? I also can't use the desktop and the apps/start menu side by side with a dual monitor setup.

    Once again, that's not my gripe. My gripe is that the apps/start menu is utterly inflexible. It's there purely because it was designed for phones and tablets; ostensibly small screens and allows you no diversity/flexibility whatsoever. Hark back to my last sentence in the previous paragraph. And to repeat from another thread...

    ...a large number of people don't like:

    • a menu that takes up the entire screen
    • apps that take up the entire screen (on large monitors)
    • apps that can't be resized
    • apps that can't be moved around
    • apps that can't be viewed on one monitor, while working on another monitor
    • apps that only work on the prime monitor
    • apps that don't work alongside desktop programs


    That's what we're locked into, inflexibility on a desktop.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #247


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Then by that line of thinking, if you use Windows 8 on a desktop and work in the Desktop, that's your option. Take away a new UI and apps, it is literally a better Windows 7. If you use the Start Screen and the Desktop, you still simply have a better Windows 7 with a start menu that is full screen and visual and shows more items than the start menu ever could. The way to get to both is still the same between Windows 7 and 8, just doesn't have a shiny pearl orb.
    You still don't understand. I can ignore the apps/start menu entirely by installing third party software that overrides the OS. But that's a kludge, why isn't that available natively (rhetorical question, because it's the way Microsoft designed it)? I also can't use the desktop and the apps/start menu side by side with a dual monitor setup.

    Once again, that's not my gripe. My gripe is that the apps/start menu is utterly inflexible. It's there purely because it was designed for phones and tablets; ostensibly small screens and allows you no diversity/flexibility whatsoever. Hark back to my last sentence in the previous paragraph. And to repeat from another thread...

    ...a large number of people don't like:

    • a menu that takes up the entire screen
    • apps that take up the entire screen (on large monitors)
    • apps that can't be resized
    • apps that can't be moved around
    • apps that can't be viewed on one monitor, while working on another monitor
    • apps that only work on the prime monitor
    • apps that don't work alongside desktop programs


    That's what we're locked into, inflexibility on a desktop.
    What part of you have the option to uninstall the apps, not use the apps, and use whatever Desktop apps you normally use on Windows 8 is so difficult to understand?
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  8. #248


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    What part of you have the option to uninstall the apps, not use the apps, and use whatever Desktop apps you normally use on Windows 8 is so difficult to understand?
    This is the thing that seems to baffle all Windows 8 lovers. I would like to use the apps, but on a different monitor to my main one and be able to view say at least four at the same time, resized for fit the screen any way I want. I can't do that. Why not?
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  9. #249


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    What part of you have the option to uninstall the apps, not use the apps, and use whatever Desktop apps you normally use on Windows 8 is so difficult to understand?
    This is the thing that seems to baffle all Windows 8 lovers. I would like to use the apps, but on a different monitor to my main one and be able to view say at least four at the same time, resized for fit the screen any way I want. I can't do that. Why not?
    Ive been using computers for an awful long time Ray, and I've never ever done what you're talking about, I can understand a small number of professionals that might need to do this but very few.

    I've also read on a few forums that Windows 8 is quite good on dual monitors, but I can't comment on that as I don't use them. I think you're chasing windmills Ray.
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  10. #250


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    What part of you have the option to uninstall the apps, not use the apps, and use whatever Desktop apps you normally use on Windows 8 is so difficult to understand?
    This is the thing that seems to baffle all Windows 8 lovers. I would like to use the apps, but on a different monitor to my main one and be able to view say at least four at the same time, resized for fit the screen any way I want. I can't do that. Why not?
    I right now have four programs open on the Desktop and IE immersive snapped to the right of the Desktop. I like using the Desktop and I like using the apps. That's my choice on how to use Windows 8. I have more programs installed than I do apps, I'm not setting arbitrary "restrictions" or "limitations" when they're not there.

    If you want to use the apps and resize them, first off hold on. What are the apps you're using because most likely if they have live tiles, those show content that don't need the apps open to be viewed.

    Until something like Office is made into the immersive style, windowed apps will happen. That could be with the Blue update or later, as apparently there will be new apps that have to be designed for that.
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Windows 8 uncertainty blamed for decline in PC sales
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