Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace

  1. #41


    Posts : 120
    Windows 8.1 + StartIsBack + AeroGlass


    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post

    A menu/grocery/nutrition calculator/knows where all your stores are and what sales are where that you can access from a tablet sitting in your kitchen, to your bedroom, to the Desktop in the study and your phone on the go? And that is only one example.
    There's absolutely no need to have the same UI across all possible devices to satisfy that use case.

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  2. #42


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    "That's nice! What I was referring to is the fact that MS didn't actucally develop any new desktop version as far as the main gui is concerned but simply slapped the RT gui on, added a few new items, stripped away media elements, and then called it a new desktop version."

    So what you're saying is that Microsoft did this over one weekend and just threw it out there hoping some poor idiots would take the bait. I'm not a software engineer but I think there's a lot more to Windows 8 than you claim.

    Look if you and your friend are having such a hard time with Windows 8, maybe you should just stick with XP. If I can remember back that far I'm pretty sure there was a power button and a menu on there so that would make you feel more at ease.

    Maybe you can take Windows 8 classes in the meantime and within 12 months you should be able to find your way around. And look I see you like looking around for negative stories about Windows 8, there's a new search engine called Google, not sure if its in XP, just type in I hate Windows 8, I'm sure you can find plenty of hate out there.
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  3. #43


    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid
    Please keep in mind that the conceptual goal ( and the ability is there in Windows 8) is cross platform conformity of apps and data.
    ...and this goal is perfect non sens IMO. Why have different devices if it's to use the exactely same apps and UI? Just carry the smallest one in your pocket and here you go in this case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid
    Yes, POP3 is on it's way out btw
    Perhaps you are right but it's sad because no web based e-mail service is as easy and as efficient to use as POP3. POP3 is vastly superior once you know how to use it. All you need is to have a copy of your account setup file with you to install it on other machines. You have much more control with POP3 because you decide what you yourself. You are not dependant on a web site. If you own your own domain, POP3 is definetly the way to go. You own both the server and the client. Can't be better.
    Of course, unfortunately, it's always the dumbest things that prevail because they give the false sens of easiness. But manipulating Gmail or Y!mail isn't realy easy IMO. Why do you have to upload a file before sending it? To me it's an aberration.
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows
    Considering they're writing on average 300 to 500 Apps per day and 700 per day before Christmas, they seem to be getting the hang of it.
    Yes I must say, they noticed that we need about 500 new apps every day. I couldn't sleep last night because they released on 499 of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows
    I cannot believe you guys are still talking about a power button, a start menu and Aero.
    Yes, Bill, it's been one year that we are writting that again and again, MS should know by now, and still no reaction from their part. It's unbelievable that they ignore so much the opinion of the users. Nothing has changed. I agree.
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  4. #44


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    "Yes I must say, they noticed that we need about 500 new apps every day. I couldn't sleep last night because they released on 499 of them."

    Well I haven't been able to sleep for the last twelve months because of the lack of a power button and a start menu. I feel like Microsoft has completely let me down and they should have rung me before making any changes. I can't eat I can't sleep, I turn my computer on and it goes onto these ugly tiles and nothing happens.

    I don't know where the desktop is, I don't know where the start menu is and even worse I can't turn it off. I've had it with Microsoft I'm going out to find a computer shop and build an Apple based computer out of cheap parts and never look back, I'm going to join the other 7% and dropping.
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  5. #45


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    "That's nice! What I was referring to is the fact that MS didn't actucally develop any new desktop version as far as the main gui is concerned but simply slapped the RT gui on, added a few new items, stripped away media elements, and then called it a new desktop version."

    So what you're saying is that Microsoft did this over one weekend and just threw it out there hoping some poor idiots would take the bait. I'm not a software engineer but I think there's a lot more to Windows 8 than you claim.

    Look if you and your friend are having such a hard time with Windows 8, maybe you should just stick with XP. If I can remember back that far I'm pretty sure there was a power button and a menu on there so that would make you feel more at ease.

    Maybe you can take Windows 8 classes in the meantime and within 12 months you should be able to find your way around. And look I see you like looking around for negative stories about Windows 8, there's a new search engine called Google, not sure if its in XP, just type in I hate Windows 8, I'm sure you can find plenty of hate out there.
    The Staples Office store chain is offering "free instructions" for anyone buying a new 8 machine. What does that tell you? Never before have they gone this far in offering free instructions for use on any version when first out! They "know" people will be lost and it will get tougher to sell new machines unless they pitch in due to how MS managed to bungle things!

    "Oh you can now have your favorite Tablet gui on your desktop!" which immediately drowns out the other changes at the core level such as improvement in security explaining why a 7 dual boot with 8 ended in mishap when both were trashed due to a change at the boot level. Then you add in one actual innovative idea out of the entire mess with the new "window(s) shade" type Lock screen and now you can login with a pic or pin code over forgetting a password!

    The core level also sees a much needed improvement in the MS Security Essential seen as the updated Windows Defender being a plus factor of having a working av program included. But that comes at the cost of other things which also explains a faster boot time like no more Media Center which was brought following the XP MCE and simply an item tossed in with Vista and 7 there.

    The dvd playback support stripped out of their default media player is another item people will be wondering about and why they now have to go out and buy some other program for media playback as well as people asking how to transfer MC settings from 7 over to 8 once the MC is bought now at the Metro apps store as a separate paid for item.

    Now besides the gui being the same as found on the Surface Tablets the OS is becoming more like it as well with the familiar items being stripped away to make it a more mobile suitable OS over maintaining a desktop OS that offers a multiple of useable features as it has always been since the additional Windows components on the old Legacy disks days. Once example of 98PLUS! over 98SE there. At least back then when not already included you could still install options from the Windows cd prepackaged there.
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  6. #46


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    I'll tell you one thing Night Hawk, you've got a way with words, I reckon you could convince people that flying a kite is the most complicated task on the planet.

    Windows 8

    Bootup

    Put in password

    Click on Desktop

    mouse to the right settings

    mouse to bottom left of screen. More settings

    Mouse to bottom left. Back to metro

    Start screen Click on tiles to start app


    I was going to put more into this comment, but I had to search for something and I've forgotten where the charms bar is, out of site out of mind, now I hope I can remember how to turn this flaming thing off.
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  7. #47


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    When going to look at any newer version I not only look for just myself alone but have to advise other people on whether or not it will be worth the time depending each individual circumstance.

    Now when looking back to compare Vista with 8 to look over what's new what do you find? With Vista besides bringing the Aero for Desktop themes no less the sidebar was also a new bell and whistle for the desktop as well as finally seeing MS provide some repair tools for the average user. You still saw one thing there however namely the "options" for choosing either the Aero or Classic XP style themes and appearance settings!

    With 7 the sidebar was eliminated when you could then place gadgets on the desktop as well as seeing the old Quick Launch section of the main taskbar become a pin to taskbar option. Another pair of improvements seen in the Windows desktop experience.

    With 8 however instead of fully learning from 7's success MS wondered off to compete in the Tablet market and left the desktop platform unattended while some core improvements went into the latest. While coming up with a working touchscreen gui for Windows is a great idea as new hardwares for the what? Desktop become available that also requires a progressive "desktop" gui to deploy that still keeps in mind the customer needs such as a productive workstation concept.

    You also have to remember that Vista got a bad rep right from it's own get go due to MS making a Big Goober in understating the actuall minimum requirements that should have been recommended from the start. But to satisfy OEMs selling under-equipped new pcs seeing only 256mb to 512mb being offered back then MS let it slide and people found themselves running a turtle rather then driving a Ferrari or Masserati. zzzzzzzzzzvroooomm.... and gone!

    With 7 being redeveloped to bring in the MinWin kernel as well as less bloat which Vista was critisized for the system requirements where what should have been for Vista! MS corrected that goober in order to work out a working OS. But they failed to learn again this time from going from a working OS into ???

    You either love it or hate with no room inbetween! People still try however by tweaking the 3rd party options MS should have included rather then omitting in order to see more people willing to make any transition to Mobile orientated. It certainly isn't about whether or not you can find the two Control Panels rather then one!, the right click menu "hidden under" the Start ccreen popup corner in the most awkward place for those fewer CP options, or trying to hover the cursor over just the right spot in order to see the Crayler bar appear.

    In one simple term, "Practicality" is the actual missing element as MS focused on seeing the same RT gui on all platforms while designed specifically for what? Not the desktop but Tablet and hand held Win Phone application. As for the core elements those are simply what to expect with any newer version as far as improving security and performance while previously not at the cost of losing a number of other things. Take 7 and strip out things and you have the core for 8!
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  8. #48


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    You can't even REMOTELY begin to compare the take up of Windows 8 compared with VISTA. At the time of VISTA smartphones were unheard of and tablets were probably not even a dream in the late Steve Jobs' head.

    Statistics are extremely dangerous things to be used TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT or without a total understanding of what they relate to.

    Remember the old quote "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics ...". Probably from as far back as Mark Twain.

    Lies, damned lies, and statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Hardware also needs to be updated less frequently, we are possibly just emerging from the largest recession since the great Wall St crash of 1929 and there's a diversity of devices that we now use for things we would have used a laptop for previously.

    Windows 8 will chug along quite OK and to those who say Windows 8 phones are HORRIBLE have either never tried one or are thinking of the old phones based on Windows 7 which were a real dogs dinner. The modern Windows 8 phones are great -- I don't have one myself as I like the Galaxy IIIs but if I were in the market now for a new phone I'd certainly consider the latest Windows 8 phones - even the mighty Samsung may introduce a Windows 8 phone later -- that surely says something about the potential of these devices.

    I don't think Ms has anything to be worried about -- just read some of the leaks about the next generation of the Xbox - these will just FLY off the shelves -- the grapevine has it that the new video rendering definition will make the current HD standard look like a 2 year old's crayon drawing, it will be 3-D enabled, possibility also to project some sort of Hologram as well - although currently you probably will still need special glasses to view this effect.

    Some of the doomsayers here on this very Forum seem to just WANT Ms to fail -- Well apart from the literally MILLIONS of jobs world wide directly and indirectly due to Ms just where would that leave home computing, gaming platforms and all sorts of other things we just take for granted -- there isn't anybody else who could take up this slack in any reasonable timeframe whatsoever.

    Remember also Ms makes a lot of its profit on Servers and Enterprise products too - especially Office. Nobody else even comes close into providing an alternative. - Some make a reasonable effort at SOME PIECES of the office suite but nobody has any serious competition to the whole suite.

    However -- to any budding entrepreneurs out there -- if you think Ms is doomed -- well go ahead and start your alternative -- if you make it -- well good for you and I certainly won't begrudge any cent you spend on whatever you want to spend your trillions of dollars on.

    For the moment I'm not selling the Ms stock just yet.

    While I prefer the W7 approach for the way I work it's not too difficult to operate Windows 8 reasonably in "Desktop mode" if you pin your most used applications to the desktop and / or taskbar.

    It Does get a bit complicated where you have loads of complex applications which formerly had loads of sub options and sub sub options -- i.e a menu system with a decent hierarchical level for sub menus / options. For a lot of people who don't run these type of applications Windows 8 is fine -- and REAL people I've met seem to quite like Windows 8 when you show it to them - these are typical home users who run a few basic applications rather than the complex stuff some professionals require in their workplaces.

    In any case windows 8 has some good features -- such as better hardware detection, good built in security, virtual ISO handling without the need for a 3rd party application, improved code optimisation, better touch screen operation,continuous file backup (via the HISTORY feature) etc . so if you can upgrade cheaply it's probably worth a shot. If you need a Hierarchical structure because you run a lot of complex applications then it's probably wiser to stay with W7.



    Cheers
    jimbo
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  9. #49


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    I don't think anyone really expects or wants Microsoft to fail, but the latest directions are frustrating for many, when there was no real need on Microsoft's part to make is so. Just a bit of flexibility on Microsoft's part, acknowledging that the desktop experience is an important part of many people's work and play life, would have alleviated just about every complaint.

    And the fact is, Windows 8 is not a revelation or a revolution, it's simply trying to be too many things at once, with flawed cosmetic changes (in my and many other's opinions) when it comes to desktop use. I'm not talking about what's contained in the underlying OS, but what's contained in the user interface. Because it's polarised so many people, there is clearly an issue that needs to be considered/addressed.

    The fact that third party programs are so successful in addressing what people are seeking from the OS, is a clear indication that people are not happy with what Microsoft has delivered. And if Windows 8 tablets fail to capture any significant proportion of the market, where does that leave Microsoft? Where does it leave all those desktop users who don't want a tablet experience on their desktop?
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  10. #50


    Denmark
    Posts : 224
    Windows 8.1 64bit Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    In any case windows 8 has some good features -- such as better hardware detection, good built in security, virtual ISO handling without the need for a 3rd party application, improved code optimisation, better touch screen operation,continuous file backup (via the HISTORY feature) etc . so if you can upgrade cheaply it's probably worth a shot. If you need a Hierarchical structure because you run a lot of complex applications then it's probably wiser to stay with W7.



    Cheers
    jimbo
    Yes, no need for a 3rd party application on ISO ... but many of us now need a 3rd party application for "fixing" the desktop a little, and aero is still missing!

    No matter if Windows 8 is easier or more difficult to use, many think it is so ugly, f.i. me. "Metro" is ugly on a big monitor, and is not very well suited for a desktop PC. If you had some sort of "folder" so you could make a tile called GAMES and another tiles called OFFICE aso., you cpuld get some order in it, but as the tiles has to be so big it is just not very good or usefull IMHO. And every app has to be run fullscreen , no more a little notepad window and a calculater window to help you when working, yrf.
    Desktop view works good, but this is also very ugly with massive color-frames, no rounded corners (even XP had that) on windows, flat buttons. Why not keep this minimalistic windows as a sheme, and then let aero and other colorfull shemes be there too, so that people can CHOOSE FOR THEMSELFS!
    Same with boot, why is there a lockscreen BEFORE I can type my password, why does it HAS to boot to Metro, and not to desktop? LET PEOPLE CHOOSE THEMSELFS!

    And get the poor USB3 performance fixed, please.
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Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace
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