Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace

  1. #21


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bluice32 View Post
    I'm very very glad Windows 8 is dead.

    Microsoft needs to learn it's role is not to be "cool" but practical.

    Hopefully Windows 9 will be more like Windows 7; simple, straightforward, with refinements THAT MAKE SENSE TO END USERS.

    With that sort of thinking we'd still be using DOS.
    I believe that is a rather sarcastic and very frequently used argument by the defenders of the Metro over and over. Forget stereotyping the present situation with the DOS to desktop migration days. We are on another and more advanced chapter in history where things have changed.

    But wait, MS tried to be both cool and practical. In fact practical enough to try and make ground to the mobile market space but too late and they even released it kinda half baked. Adding something half-baked on something that is already good is the one that is rather impractical.

    Windows 8 is a good OS but its the half-baked thing slapped right on top if it and the things ripped away from it are what make people think its bad.

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  2. #22


    definitively Vertex you have THE WAY to present the facts. Your posts are well presented, how someone can quote you and reply with a such empty and out of scene comment like "With that sort of thinking we'd still be using DOS."
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  3. #23


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bluice32 View Post
    I'm very very glad Windows 8 is dead.

    Microsoft needs to learn it's role is not to be "cool" but practical.

    Hopefully Windows 9 will be more like Windows 7; simple, straightforward, with refinements THAT MAKE SENSE TO END USERS.

    With that sort of thinking we'd still be using DOS.
    I believe that is a rather sarcastic and very frequently used argument by the defenders of the Metro over and over. Forget stereotyping the present situation with the DOS to desktop migration days. We are on another and more advanced chapter in history where things have changed.

    But wait, MS tried to be both cool and practical. In fact practical enough to try and make ground to the mobile market space but too late and they even released it kinda half baked. Adding something half-baked on something that is already good is the one that is rather impractical.

    Windows 8 is a good OS but its the half-baked thing slapped right on top if it and the things ripped away from it are what make people think its bad.
    What about the frequently used argument that this is another Vista or ME, not frequently, insanely frequently. I don't see that this is much different than the changeover from DOS, except that MS is now fighting for its existence.

    In my opinion MS tries too hard to please people, they should have dropped a lot of baggage years ago like Apple does. If they'd done that, we might now have a lighter Windows.

    I personally didn't start off with DOS and Windows, I started off on a Commodore 64 and the Amiga, I always felt MS were light years behind but when I finally bought my 486 things were changing and I started to take to the new system.

    The one thing that's always stuck with me though is the way that whenever MS changed something people would be up in arms, me I loved it, and always went out and bought a new copy of Windows on the first day.

    Things haven't changed much, people are still up in arms, and I still buy my new copy of Windows on the first day, though this time two, soon to be three.

    Looking forward to Windows Blue or whatever.
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  4. #24


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Awww...Molebo (aka. Area 66) got banned again? Surprised it took so long.

    The problem with Windows 8 sales is that touch monitor manufacturers got caught with their pants down, they didn't expect consumers to be interested in touch monitors on laptops and desktops. You go to best buy and you see a number of Windows 8 laptops and a majority of them don't have touch screens. I see people trying out these laptops or desktops and they are trying to touch the screen in Metro then ask the sales clerk why there is no touch screen. Just because there is touch it doesn't mean you always have to use it, it just becomes one of the input devices along with mouse and keyboard.
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  5. #25


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    The main problem has already been summed up for the most part with the "not ready to use out of the box" statement made earlier like 7 had been. Office supply stores like Staples are offering free instructions on how to use Windows 8 when buying a new machine due to the drastic gui change not being simply another major desktop release but use of the Windows RT for Surface gui.

    The comparison made with Vista is that despite being slow on old machines with a few hardware upgrades people still wanted something newer then XP. I initially found Vista to be a far more stable platform over the constant BSOD factor XP was known for practically until SP3 finally addressed some much needed bug fixes!

    Some of the ideas being seen in 8 are worth the bother while other things are not very appealing to the majority of users. You have three main options when looking at 8 that you wouldn't have been concerned about with any previous version to an extent that is. For Vista and 7 the Classic Windows XP looking theme would be a tweak there while bumping the "Modern" or "Metro" is the second of run as it is being the first and not going for 8 at all as the third.

    With the first your obvious choice is to not be planning on much to start with besides running a new version. With the second of tweaking the OS then you grab at 3rd party wares to see things like the Start menu/button brought back. Out on the retail market however the slump is people wanting a basic Windows desktop they are far more familiar with and not something they have to tweak to make look like a normal Windows.

    Now as far as Dos and Legacy days starting off with Basic programming came well before Dos and 3.11 on the first IBM machine to come along to replace word processor units! With the first Epson notebooks(Epson HX-20) on the market back in 1982 you manually had to type in program code in order to see anything run on a tiny lcd display! What hard drive? Try microcassette tape or ROM cartridges you plugged in.

    Following a system swap of the I386 IBM for a newer machine to run 95 I first found 98SE sluggish like many complained about Vista. Yet 98SE proved to be the better OS! And like Vista once a new custom case was together 98E sang sweet tunes in my ears even after seeing 98SE/XP dual boots on even newer builds.

    Compatibility issues is another drawback why many especially businesses take far longer to upgrade into any newer version to start with. The investment in newer versions for the same softwares may not be in their budget as well as the down time and retraining of personal. Now comes Windows 8 suffering from RT exposure! How many will be rushing into 8?

    With 7's arrival back in 2009 I knew right away that the next version to come would be a slow to sell OS to start with. But like a SUN gui designer labels the Metro being more or less a "recipe for disaster' the volume of early sales is somewhat reflecting that. Hopefully MS will also realize that fact before the next version is developed and takes into account the one gui fits all platforms idea is an automatic fail to begin with. Many are still going to adopt 8 however since it brings in Hyper-X support for Cloud.
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  6. #26


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    What about the frequently used argument that this is another Vista or ME, not frequently, insanely frequently. I don't see that this is much different than the changeover from DOS, except that MS is now fighting for its existence.

    In my opinion MS tries too hard to please people, they should have dropped a lot of baggage years ago like Apple does. If they'd done that, we might now have a lighter Windows.
    While I do agree that Windows 8 does not deserve to be compared to Vista or ME, those 2 are the other MS "Desktop" operating systems that did not make it big over the last 13 years which is historically closer to the present than the DOS days. I believe Vista was a better OS than XP in terms of the internal features and after some service packs but both Vista and Windows 8 have rather slow uptake in popularity at least on the first few months of release.

    On the DOS migration days people had to learn the new way to setup things and the new Desktop UI and that's a learning curve, a big learning curve to some people and you got to remember that personal computers aren't as popular and aren't as many in those days so most people who owned a DOS computer must have some sufficient computer skills to go about the new UI and the new way to do things. That is different from the present where many people who use computers just use it for basic tasks, leisure, Internet or games and just don't have much technical skill at it either and many of them have used the traditional Desktop UI since the first time they ever laid a finger on a keyboard. Many are stubborn not to learn new things or just follow the bandwagon of what is cool/popular/hype/trendy and what is not and this is where Apple, unfortunately, got the upper hand by establishing a brand name as a status symbol years ago while Windows machines were more common and more widely used but were not considered as a status symbol.

    Though learning Windows 8 is technically not as hard as the DOS to Desktop migration, the new stuff meant for tablets slapped on top of it, is not as well refined as it should be and not really fused with the existing Desktop environment in the best possible way to make such a good appeal to many people. In fact, not enough to compete with the popularity of its predecesor, Windows 7 that does what most people need to do on a Desktop computer and is now making good grounds on the enterprise level, just recently, giving no good reason for the enterprises to upgrade to Windows 8 which unfortunately is also being bullied by reviews, blogs and articles by tech enthusiasts that you may call Apple fanboys.

    Lets just hope the Windows Blue does well. Lets just hope that it brings significant improvements to both Metro and the Desktop and I hope that the future is not 90% reliant on the "cloud"....
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  7. #27


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    At the moment I've got an iPad3 an iPad Mini an Android tablet and an Android phone. In my opinion Windows is still the way to go, but it has to be touch or it will get left behind. I also like the way Microsoft is trying to bring everything together with Windows 8. I'm not really sold on the cloud either, I've got two NAS for that, but I can see the possibilities of everything syncing and connecting through the cloud.

    I just really hope Windows 8 takes off as I can see this being the future, I want a tablet that is a computer not a consumption device and I would like all my gear to run the same OS. Okay this first iteration of 8 may not be the perfect start, but I think it's a step in the right direction as it allows low powered PC's and tablets to run a full blown OS.

    I forgot to mention I've also got a few Windows PC's running 7 and 8.
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  8. #28


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    I want a desktop OS before I ever replace 7 here! A touch screen capable gui is one thing while MS didn't design one for the desktop to start with. With 8 they simply borrowed the one used in Windows RT geared strictly for their new Surface Tablet series and left much to be desired for 8 by making that move rather then developing a totally desktop that was designed for the desktop platform.

    The "one shoe fits all" idea was simply a shortcut in order to push out a new version on the 2-3yr. schedule without any actual foresight. Security improved, a new look for the taskmanager, and a lighter footprint doesn't necessarily make a better OS out of it when they in turn strip away not so much the Media Center brought in by the 2005 XP edition originally but taking away as well as jumbling things up requiring extra steps to simply perform everyday basic tasks.

    When comparing the dos to desktop migration the help files make life easier back in those days over learning all the dos commands! 8 is more complicated in that the layout is the most confusing one seen for Windows over the years with hidden tool bars and not finding a main program or other menu right there to find the Control Panel, the main programs besides buttons since everything in a program folder for each is plastered all over the Start screen until you begin to create catagory groups of buttons.

    Another thing in reference to the dos to shell gui is that the gui saw more options being brought in over each task requiring so many commands entered at a dos prompt. It was 95 not 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.11, 3.11 that first brought in the boot loader which automatically loaded the main gui. No type "win" and press enter at dos prompt no longer while the dos mode was ended by entering the win command there in 9x. ME saw the end of the shutdown to dos with the dos window only option.
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  9. #29


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    I think if Microsoft had stayed on the Desktop path, it would have been a path to certain death, the younger generation is not interested in Desktops, they're interested in Mobile, I don't blame them I am too.

    I have been building smaller PC's for about 4 years for HTPC's, I also do a lot of travelling, so I need small net books tablets etc, that's why I bought the iPads. As soon as I saw Windows 8, I saw the future, but maybe not everyone's future by the sound of it. Windows 8 is great for HTPC's, Tablets and even phones by the look of it, I see they are making inroads with Nokia.

    Me personally I don't have any problems at all with Windows 8 on the Desktop, I quite often forget I'm on 8 nowadays. I don't use multiple monitors so I can't comment on that part of it except that I've read quite a few people who don't mind it and others who hate it.
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  10. #30


    Posts : 179
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64 with Media Center


    Clearly, if Microsoft set the default "Desktop Mode" only (Windows 7 start menu, no Metro, no Charms bar, no side menus etc.) for devices that don't have touch capabilty and only set Metro as a default for tablets and touch screen laptops, they wouldn't be having this mess.
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Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace
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