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Intel 'preparing' to put an end to user-replaceable CPUs

  1. #31


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    Again this is not really about upgradability, it's about STOCKING and CHOICE.

    Your right, AFTER the machine is built it is exceedingly rare to need to replace one part and not the other for any reason. Not /totally/ non-existent but pretty damn rare. HOWEVER. If you want to choose your MB and your processor from the start, those choices will be SEVERELY limited once the processors come pre soldered to the MB because no one will want to stock every single combination of the two.

    Dell is guilty of this now but there are tons of places that give much better options.

    I.e. A store or builder need only stock 10 cpus and 10 motherboards and you have up to 100 combinations to choose from. So 20 stock items == 100 choices. After soldering, you have to stock 100 items to provide the same choices and NO ONE is going to do that.
    Hi there


    C'mon you're from the US -- the spiritual home of "If we build a better Mousetrap people will come".

    If this thing ever hits the light of day you'll always be able to get a better deal.

    Don't get misled by this type of stuff.

    Cheers
    jimbo

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  2. #32


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post

    Also, looking at the diagram here:

    Attachment 12056

    Could Haswell be Intel

    What would it take an enterprising manufacturer to solder that chip onto an interface socket?
    That's not nearly as easy as it sounds. Not and get a reliable connection on every contact point on a multilayer board ,without messing something up with all the heat required. Its a lot easier to solder a socket on the board from the back side than it would be to solder that CPU to the top side. Totally different process.
    Why can't that CPU (if that's how they will be sold to manufacturers) be soldered in the same way to a surface mount circuit board that simply emulates the current crop of socket mount CPUs ie pins on the other side, rather than the motherboard itself?
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  3. #33


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post

    Also, looking at the diagram here:

    Attachment 12056

    Could Haswell be Intel

    What would it take an enterprising manufacturer to solder that chip onto an interface socket?
    That's not nearly as easy as it sounds. Not and get a reliable connection on every contact point on a multilayer board ,without messing something up with all the heat required. Its a lot easier to solder a socket on the board from the back side than it would be to solder that CPU to the top side. Totally different process.
    Why can't that CPU (if that's how they will be sold to manufacturers) be soldered in the same way to a surface mount circuit board that simply emulates the current crop of socket mount CPUs ie pins on the other side, rather than the motherboard itself?
    I'm not saying it can't be done. I just don't think its easy process for that particular CPU type, and could end up being more expensive than just adding a socket. But I've been out of the loop for a few years now so I could be wrong.
    Intel 'preparing' to put an end to user-replaceable CPUs
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  4. #34


    Covington, La
    Posts : 1,184
    Windows 7 HP 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center 64BIT


    From what I have read, it seems that Intel is going after the mobile market with these new SOC chips. Just like MS with Win 8. The desktop is playing 2nd fiddle.

    Jim
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  5. #35


    Posts : 87
    Windows 7 Pro 64


    Why not solder the RAM on the board as well? Since Intel makes all the chipests (and those become more and more part of the CPU anyway with memory controller, graphics etc. on CPU) There isn't so much real life difference between so many MB anyway. It is mostly marketing. The CPU and Southbridge are from Intel anyway, there isn't so much left nowadays for normal PCs.

    I always built my own PC and in theory would have been able to upgrade the CPU, but never did because after 3-4 years when a new CPU would have boon good, everything else on the MB was outdated as well.

    the problem will be stocking. but the large manufactures let the MB manufacture anyway, and online stores still will have enough choices. sure it will limit the number of boards/CPUs to chose from. But do I really need 35 different CPUs and 18 MB from just one manufacturer for that socket? when I buy a car I get 2-3 motors to chose from for each type.
    a budget board woudl be sold with celeron/Pentium/i3. Premium boards with i5/i7. In theory there are more options, but do people really need to combine a $200 MB with a $50 Celeron?
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  6. #36


    Posts : 902
    Win8.1 Pro, Desktop Mode


    Intel can kiss my royal Canadian butt. I strictly use AMD, and always will. And no, contrary to rumours heard in some dark corners of the internet, AMD is not abandoning the x86 or x64 market. Indeed, they just released the fx-8350, which is a damn fine chip.
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  7. #37


    Posts : 354
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V


    Quote Originally Posted by Phone Man View Post
    From what I have read, it seems that Intel is going after the mobile market with these new SOC chips. Just like MS with Win 8. The desktop is playing 2nd fiddle.
    The "desktop" as we know it is currently being phased out for the vast majority of consumer and enterprise applications, thanks to a combination of BYOD, distributed computing and improvements to VDI. Apple, too, is considering SoC for their PC and notebook models. Furthermore, we have products like the desktop dock for the Galaxy Note II which provide USB and HDMI connections for mice, keyboards and displays, so a person can dock their mobile device and open up a remote desktop session to a hosted workstation. Companies like Intel and Microsoft aren't working in a vacuum.

    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express
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  8. #38


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by chev65 View Post
    First and foremost, at least from Intel's point of view, is that this move puts the chip giant in an even more commanding position, allowing it greater control over the motherboard market. More control means more money.

    I call this a monopoly flat out, and it goes against every anti trust law that was ever created. And with statements like this they might was well sue themselves because it's just a matter of time before someone else does.
    No, it is not a monopoly or fall under anti-trust law. Please look them up. You still have choices.
    While they may be able to control the prices of there own products, they won't control the price of AMD or other competitors that may come along.

    While it doesn't seen that Intel wants to cut existing motherboard makers out of the equation just yet, sources I have spoken to seem to be worried that this could happen in the mid-to-long-term.

    I won't get into the fact that this move offers ZERO advantage to the consumers who have supported Intel over the years.

    This is about cooperate take over of the entire PC industry, they don't like people being able to build their own machines because that removes money from their till and I'm certain this has something to do with hurting sales of OEM machines, which to me is tough luck for company's like HP who sell nothing but cheap substandard Chinese made POS.
    No, they can not take over the entire PC industry. That is impossible with AMD in existence.
    The OEM's can make their own choices of weather to carry Intel products or not. If I start a business building PC's, I can choose to only use AMD exclusively. Intel can not force me to sell their product.

    This statement proves my point:
    As far as the PC OEMs are concerned, killing off the PC upgrade market would be a good thing because it would push people to buy new PCs rather than upgrade their existing hardware. The PC industry is currently stagnant, partly because consumers and enterprise are making existing hardware last longer.

    I'm sure they hope that this move will kill the PC home building industry, what they don't realize is that it will end up hurting sales from many thousands of home PC builders and this market is bigger than some people think.
    The casualties of this move will be upgraders and PC 'modders', the huge market that exists around them. While not many people bother to upgrade their PCs, instead choosing to buy a new one, the market is large enough to support countless manufacturers and vendors. This move by Intel would be the final nail in the coffin for this industry, taking down a number of players. This, unfortunately, would have a corresponding knock-on effect on jobs.

    Of course there will still be enthusiast boards with high end CPU's already installed and other high end hardware but having Intel control all that is where the anti trust laws will be broken.
    Only so much as if AMD follows suit. This is why Microsoft has never been a monopoly either, even though many want to scream that from the roof tops, they are so wrong, it make 2+2=3 seem legit.


    mo·nop·o·ly
    [muh-nop-uh-lee] noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.

    1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.

    You can argue Duopoly and Oligopoly.....

    2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.

    Such as Ma Bell

    3. the exclusive possession or control of something.

    Which neither Intel or AMD control

    ************


    an·ti·trust

    adjective
    opposing or intended to restrain trusts, monopolies, or other large combinations of business and capital, especially with a view to maintaining and promoting competition.

    Something that Intel is not trying to do here. Which Microsoft, I believe was guilty of in the 90's with the OEM's.
    By preventing OEM's from installing or providing support for OS's like OS/2 and Linux, if I recall.
    Now it is up to the OEM's iof they want to provide that support, they are not obligated to do so.


    Let me also add this.... If a widget maker makes something that I can produce cheaper, they can not control the fact that I can sell my item for much cheaper than theirs. However, if I can produce it at about the same cost and I sell it at a loss, under cutting the competition to drive them out of business just so I can raise it again later, that is under cutting.

    The difference between Fair Trade and Free Trade is....

    Fair Trade means I can produce a better product, but can not sell it for more than the competition

    Free Trade means I can build a better product and ask the price that I believe is fitting and still be able to sell it.

    Fair Trade = Govt control of pricing......

    Free Trade = Consumer control of pricing....


    and On a final note,,, at the end of the day,, Intel can do what they want... If people decide to stop giving them their money they go out of business. The dollar you don't give to a company has much more profound effect on any said company/industry than any regulations could ever hope to. That goes for any industry.
    You just have to be willing to live without their products. ... If you can't,, don't bitch about it.

    One last note.... Free Trade and Healthy Competition will always,, Always produce better products and a more prosperous society.
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  9. #39


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    ^^^

    Given that AMD has said that they are finished competing with intel and concentrating on lower end CPUs for cheap hardware and mobile devices, they have pretty much handed Intel an environment for monopoly and created a situation where Intel could very well manipulate prices. This move is a possible example of them manipulating choice and dictating an environment that benefits them more than their customers now that AMD is on it's way out as a choice for desktop machines. (Could be gone entirely by 2015, we'll see what Intel is like then)
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  10. #40


    Posts : 354
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V


    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    ^^^

    Given that AMD has said that they are finished competing with intel and concentrating on lower end CPUs for cheap hardware and mobile devices, they have pretty much handed Intel an environment for monopoly and created a situation where Intel could very well manipulate prices. This move is a possible example of them manipulating choice and dictating an environment that benefits them more than their customers now that AMD is on it's way out as a choice for desktop machines. (Could be gone entirely by 2015, we'll see what Intel is like then)
    On the other hand, however, ARM is working on chips powerful enough for the data centre, so I don't think the picture is as bleak as some would like to paint it.
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Intel 'preparing' to put an end to user-replaceable CPUs
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