Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Will 'normal' Windows users want a Start button for Windows 8?

  1. #51


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd
    Quite a post! Well done.
    Thank you mdmd. That's just the set-up that suits me.

    Yes, DVDVideosoft Studio is a great program and totally free. It really does it all. I normally open it with a desktop shortcut, (top left in pic of my desktop), but used it as an example of a multi-sub-menu app.

    Using the Ex7ForW8 hack restores the traditional Orb start menu, and also totally swtiches off Metro. During installation it requres the W7 installation disc from which it extracts files to set up Explorer 7. So you've virtually got W7 in W8 OS, with W8 improvements.

    However, the beauty of Ex7ForW8 is that it leaves Metro intact and it can be accessed with a single click of the toggle switch if you need to go there for apps or any other reason.

    Cheers M
    Last edited by Mustang; 21 Oct 2012 at 12:14.

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  2. #52


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Hello Jimbo. I don't work for Microsoft. Just showing what they have. Basically, I think they have removed nesting to make it easier for touch. You could say touch has no place on a traditional pc, and that is a fair statement. But that is not the OS model. 8 is a schizophrenic hybrid phone desktop OS. What else can I say. Thanks
    Hi there mdmd
    Thanks for the reply

    You can see now where the difficulty is for some people.

    80% of people don't seem to understand the problem --which conversely might be good for W8 since if my type of problems are relatively rare then W8 will actually be a winner for Ms.

    However the developers at Redmond should understand that there are problems with the new UI -- and it's really not due to people wanting to "revert to the past".

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #53


    I agree I think that is where a lot of the argument stems from. People just assume all people want to go back to the past, just because they don't like the user interface. At least that's how I see it. People calling this modern. Yes it's new but functionality is important here. The user-interface needs work. I mean just focusing on function yes there are new things they added such as the ribbon which to me wasn't necessary and is cluttering the windows even more than it already is. But the hidden menu and hot spots are awkward. I'm wondering if the hidden menu is awkward for touch users. I get the hot spots are easy since you just swipe. But anyway for desktop users they haven't created a suitable replacement. Even some other menu would have been good. The start screen isn't bad but when you want to get to things that are simple and there is no easy way on the desktop such as a regular menu similar to the old one it just makes things uneasy. For touch users the start screen makes things easy not for portrait mode it seems but at least it works good for those that need a touch base windows computer. For desktop users things just don't work that great. Even in mac now it's similar. With all icons on the bottom but they still have a menu for settings and other general computer things that are visible to the user. I think the show desktop button on the taskbar now just looks like added space on the bar.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #54


    United States
    Posts : 650
    Windows 8.1 Pro, iOS 7.1, Elementary OS


    Lets sum up this thread,

    tseven
    I agree I think that is where a lot of the argument stems from. People just assume all people want to go back to the past, just because they don't like the user interface. At least that's how I see it. People calling this modern. Yes it's new but functionality is important here. The user-interface needs work. I mean just focusing on function yes there are new things they added such as the ribbon which to me wasn't necessary and is cluttering the windows even more than it already is. But the hidden menu and hot spots are awkward. I'm wondering if the hidden menu is awkward for touch users. I get the hot spots are easy since you just swipe. But anyway for desktop users they haven't created a suitable replacement. Even some other menu would have been good. The start screen isn't bad but when you want to get to things that are simple and there is no easy way on the desktop such as a regular menu similar to the old one it just makes things uneasy. For touch users the start screen makes things easy not for portrait mode it seems but at least it works good for those that need a touch base windows computer. For desktop users things just don't work that great. Even in mac now it's similar. With all icons on the bottom but they still have a menu for settings and other general computer things that are visible to the user. I think the show desktop button on the taskbar now just looks like added space on the bar.


    mdmd

    It is my belief that Microsoft is respecting the intelligence of people enough to expect them to think that it would not be difficult to use. This video, in the article, is so lame and unfair. It's like, on the street, are you smarter than a 5th grader? questions. They are confronted with Windows 8 for the first time and are expected to review a 100 million dollar collaboration in 60 seconds. The interviewer is just as uninformed and biased as his father was. People, when confronted on the street, are usually confused and nervous especially when they are being videotaped. What would an on street interview of how people would respond to Ubuntu be like. People generally have to attend some kind of class or support group to learn how to use an Apple. If the interviewer is implying that Windows 8 is bogus because there is no start menu, or they can't see the desktop from the start screen, or they can't figure out how to shut down the computer, then the interviewer is deliberately trying to make a fool out of everyone he tasks.

    Kat

    If you can't do in 8 exactly what you did in Vista or 7, maybe you shouldn't HAVE a computer....

    Yes, it's different.

    But un-useable?

    No way!

    I loathed it at first, the DP was absolute crap.

    But I put a bit of time into learning it and tweaking it to my preferences.

    Now, I love it. The RTM is Rock-solid.

    Windows 7 with a turbo, basically.

    And you CAN ignore Metro if you use Classic Start or similar.

    I'm keeping 7 (Ultimate 32-bit) on the desktop, but Win 8 RTM is here to stay on the Super-Lappy.

    And the old lappy just LOVES the 32-bit Win 8 CP.....refuses to run the RP, but will run the 64-bit RTM with ease...go figure.


    These are just a few I can agree with.
    Lots of others, and this thread is making a great point, everyone will move on. It is Microsoft's idea of the future, and we don't need to agree, thats why we have linux.

    I think MS is heading the right way, and it is all your opinion!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #55


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrantFitz View Post
    Lets sum up this thread,

    tseven
    I agree I think that is where a lot of the argument stems from. People just assume all people want to go back to the past, just because they don't like the user interface. At least that's how I see it. People calling this modern. Yes it's new but functionality is important here. The user-interface needs work. I mean just focusing on function yes there are new things they added such as the ribbon which to me wasn't necessary and is cluttering the windows even more than it already is. But the hidden menu and hot spots are awkward. I'm wondering if the hidden menu is awkward for touch users. I get the hot spots are easy since you just swipe. But anyway for desktop users they haven't created a suitable replacement. Even some other menu would have been good. The start screen isn't bad but when you want to get to things that are simple and there is no easy way on the desktop such as a regular menu similar to the old one it just makes things uneasy. For touch users the start screen makes things easy not for portrait mode it seems but at least it works good for those that need a touch base windows computer. For desktop users things just don't work that great. Even in mac now it's similar. With all icons on the bottom but they still have a menu for settings and other general computer things that are visible to the user. I think the show desktop button on the taskbar now just looks like added space on the bar.


    mdmd

    It is my belief that Microsoft is respecting the intelligence of people enough to expect them to think that it would not be difficult to use. This video, in the article, is so lame and unfair. It's like, on the street, are you smarter than a 5th grader? questions. They are confronted with Windows 8 for the first time and are expected to review a 100 million dollar collaboration in 60 seconds. The interviewer is just as uninformed and biased as his father was. People, when confronted on the street, are usually confused and nervous especially when they are being videotaped. What would an on street interview of how people would respond to Ubuntu be like. People generally have to attend some kind of class or support group to learn how to use an Apple. If the interviewer is implying that Windows 8 is bogus because there is no start menu, or they can't see the desktop from the start screen, or they can't figure out how to shut down the computer, then the interviewer is deliberately trying to make a fool out of everyone he tasks.

    Kat

    If you can't do in 8 exactly what you did in Vista or 7, maybe you shouldn't HAVE a computer....

    Yes, it's different.

    But un-useable?

    No way!

    I loathed it at first, the DP was absolute crap.

    But I put a bit of time into learning it and tweaking it to my preferences.

    Now, I love it. The RTM is Rock-solid.

    Windows 7 with a turbo, basically.

    And you CAN ignore Metro if you use Classic Start or similar.

    I'm keeping 7 (Ultimate 32-bit) on the desktop, but Win 8 RTM is here to stay on the Super-Lappy.

    And the old lappy just LOVES the 32-bit Win 8 CP.....refuses to run the RP, but will run the 64-bit RTM with ease...go figure.


    These are just a few I can agree with.
    Lots of others, and this thread is making a great point, everyone will move on. It is Microsoft's idea of the future, and we don't need to agree, thats why we have linux.

    I think MS is heading the right way, and it is all your opinion!
    Hi there
    moving on is fine -- but if it makes what you do more awkward / complicated without any tangible benefits -- then something's gone horribly wrong.

    One good thing Ms had over "The Fruit Company" was that windows could run almost any conceivable piece of hardware and software thrown at it.

    However some of this software is complex and can't be reduced to a One dimensional set of tiles.

    Without some way of having either a hierarchical system or a two dimensional expanding tile display this interface isn't going to please a lot of users.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #56


    Posts : 1,127
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    It's so easy for people to say just pin the applications you want to the task bar or send to desktop in the desktop view (as in previous versions of windows) but what some of these people fail to understsnd that for some people this isn't the solution either -- especially if you have some complex applications with a lot of HIERARCHIAL / SUB menus and SUB SUB menus etc. - If you were to try and put all these on the taskbar you are "merely re-creating" the tiles that you'd see on the start screen and you aren't any better off.

    It's the lack of a HIERARCHIAL structure that is the problem.

    For instance I don't mind the Tiles per se but say I install ADOBE CS -- now instead of installing 10 zillion tiles for this app why can't it work as ONE TILE which if I clicked on the tile would EXPAND into a VERTICAL set of tiles so I could then select my desired sub application.
    I have Adobe CS5. I don't see what the problem is. It is arranged in a hierarchical fashion in the all apps view and the regular view. But for the key components for me (Photoshop, Premiere, and Illustrator), I moved copies (though copies isn't the right word) to the front of the start screen as I use them as much as I web browse.
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  7. #57


    Geneva, NY
    Posts : 20
    Windows 7 Home Premium, Win 8 Pro DVD


    I went to Staples, saw new laptops with Win 8 on them, tried to find Control Panel and Device Manager to see what video card it had. Yeah, I never found that info in 5 minutes. The Charm Bar was impossible to use with the touchpad mouse. Didn't see CP anywhere.

    I thought I saw a YouTube video that showed how to get the Start Menu into Win 8, but another YouTube video stated that M$ disabled the ability of 3rd party programs to enable a Start Menu since.

    My parents are definitely not going to be using Win 8. Now I have to decide whether my dad is going to die of old age before Win XP expires in April 2014, he still uses DOS 6.22!
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  8. #58


    Hi Cymbal Man Freq. Welcome to EightForums.

    Pointer lower left corner -> Mini Start Screen appears -> right click -> guts menu appears with CP on it.
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  9. #59


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    I still want a Start button and perhaps a close button for those dreaded Metro apps that won't run on my netbook because of low resolution so I hooked it up to a bigger monitor and it crashes on the RP.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #60


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Cymbal Man Freq View Post
    I went to Staples, saw new laptops with Win 8 on them, tried to find Control Panel and Device Manager to see what video card it had. Yeah, I never found that info in 5 minutes. The Charm Bar was impossible to use with the touchpad mouse. Didn't see CP anywhere.

    I thought I saw a YouTube video that showed how to get the Start Menu into Win 8, but another YouTube video stated that M$ disabled the ability of 3rd party programs to enable a Start Menu since.

    My parents are definitely not going to be using Win 8. Now I have to decide whether my dad is going to die of old age before Win XP expires in April 2014, he still uses DOS 6.22!
    Press the Windows key and the Pause/break key to bring up the System screen. That screen lists the WEI and links to a more detailed score which will give you a rough indication of how fast that PC is. A link to Device manager is also listed on the upper left on the System Screen.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Will 'normal' Windows users want a Start button for Windows 8?
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