Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Will 'normal' Windows users want a Start button for Windows 8?

  1. #21


    I am going to borrow a line from one of my favorite TV characters, Monk ...

    "Here's the thing ..."

    I use my Start orb/button/menu in Windows 7 ALL THE TIME. I run so many different apps, some of them about once in a blue moon, that I don't have them all on the left side of my Start menu. If I installed it, I will use it at some point, but not necessarily every day or even every week. Unlike some users, I do NOT clutter my desktop with shortcuts. Therefore if it's a rarely-used application (or just not one of my most often-used ones) I have to go to the All Programs menu or a desktop shortcut.

    I fire up Word, Excel, Notepad, etc., from the Start menu, and I like the jump lists that pop out the recent stuff I've worked on. 9 times out of 10 that's what I want to go back and edit again.

    So what are my options working in Windows 8, out-of-the-box, without some third-party add-on?

    * I could pop back to the Start screen or All Apps to launch an app when I need to. Then I hope it doesn't fire up in full-screen mode and cover up everything I'm working on.

    * I could go into the desktop, search for the app, and fire it up.

    * I could launch it from Start -> Run

    * I could put a shortcut on the desktop

    * Find the program in Explorer and launch it that way

    The point is that I want to run pretty much anything I have without the need to go back to the Start screen.

    Now don't go off and tell me I need to learn the "new way" or that I'm just stuck in a rut. I know how I use Windows and I am quite happy using it in this way.

    I'm fine with people who like the new OS. Maybe it's wonderful for you and the way you use it. I should not have to install a third-party application to make it work well for me. I personally find it awkward to navigate the OS to do something I might have to do just once in a while.

    I'll be interested to see the reaction of ordinary, everyday non-technical users (I'm not one of them) after the OS has been out there for a while. Sure, given enough time and work with Winodws 8 I know I could learn the "new way" but my company isn't going to see Windows 8 for a while: so I work differently at the office than I do at home. Windows Surface tablets for all our corporate users? Not in the foreseeable (5+ years) future, for sure. Windows 8 on the desktop? Heck, if everyone in our company is on Windows 7 a year from now we'll be in good shape.

    It's interesting that some people automatically assume that a video showing a viewpoint other than their own is biased. How did YOU react the first time you saw the new OS? Was it readily intuitive to you? Were you instantly able to do what you wanted to do? (I doubt it.) So then why are you surprised when someone who's never seen Win8 reacts in confusion? The accusations of "bias" are on both sides of the fence, folks: take a step back and see if there's really something to be learned from what you see and read - even if you don't agree!

    Meanwhile, I'll keep chugging along happily in my Windows 7 world. As long as I can do what I need to do with my "senile, archaic" Windows 7, I'll keep using it. Whether I'm of the minority opinion a few weeks or months from now doesn't matter. Maybe I enjoy being an old fuddy-duddy!


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  2. #22


    N. Calif
    Posts : 2,584
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 Pro (tablet), W10 (laptop)


    I do the same thing in Win 8 that I did in Win 2000, XP, Vista and 7. I use desktop shortcuts but then use the option to hide the desktop icons. I then create a desktop toolbar which allows me to pop up a menu of all the shortcuts I have on my desktop. My desktop stays uncluttered and I have no need for a Start menu. Added bonus is that when I'm working, I NEVER need to minimize windows or anything else to access the desktop since I can access everything on the desktop from the desktop toolbar.
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  3. #23


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    I'm not sure if I'm a normal or abnormal Windows user? Please define normal. However, I do want the same setup on desktop as W7.

    Apropos to this, Ex7forW8 found here in the thread 'Windows 7 Original StartButton and metro Killer' absolutely rocks!

    It's not only free but includes several features missing from Classic Shell and Stardock.

    From within 'All Programs' items can be:

    • Pinned to Start Menu jump list
    • Renamed
    • Dragged up from sub-menu to main menu
    • Sent to desktop as shortcut


    It also has a simple toggle switch between Explorer 7 & 8 with Metro availability.

    So far it's run seamless, and if it continues to be reliable I will trial W8 upgrade as possible main machine.

    Only restriction is you need a Win7 installation disc to install it as it uses files from W7.
    Last edited by Mustang; 18 Oct 2012 at 12:07.
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  4. #24


    Normal is what an individual usually does or usually acts. We take notice when an individual acts differently to their normal way. I new something was up when one of my children acted out of their norm.

    Here's the thing ........ Windows 8 is what it is. That's the reality of it all. It is abnormal to previous OSs. A huge change to target a market. I believe it is not targeting enterprise, but rather the general public. Like you say, Terry, enterprise will be happy to upgrade to 7. I think MS had this planned all along. They new they had to get 7 near perfect, which I believe they accomplished. I'm quite sure they had 8 release date pinned on their calendar while producing 7. 7 will continue to be income for them. I think 9 will be geared for enterprise.

    It starts with marketing. Anyone could see that Apple was winning the game. Throw some Google with Android and other touch-based OSs in. The market is demanding touch. No if, ands, or buts about it. One has to change their game plan to win.

    Therefore, it's the people's demand for touch. It's not MS's, iFruit's, Google's, OEM's, or any others' choice. If anyone ever bought a touch device, they voted for touch.

    When I first booted up 8, I intuitively knew to press enter after staring at the splash screen for about 10 seconds. My exact thoughts were "This is different" and then "What the hell is this?!". After pushing enter I stared at the Start Screen for awhile with these same two questions, but added ones of "Where's the desktop?!". "Where's the start orb and menu?!" "How do I shut this thing down?!" Lol! It remains quite amusing to me to this day!

    I scrolled back and forth a few times wondering what to do next. "I need help" I thought, so I pushed the IE tile. It opened to the Bing page, which has been my home page for quite some time. That was "normal" for me. I typed "shut down windows 8". It led me to a whole lot of help. This forum was and continues to be a huge help. The rest is history. I was cruising through 8 within a few hours and I don't consider myself all that savvy! Within a few days I was pretty much familiar with most of it.

    I guess it's all in fun, but just don't get the hoopla of cold-showing 8 to anyone without some simple instructions. I think it's plain asinine. An insult to human intelligence IMO.

    If not for the hierarchical problem of organization of the Start Screen it would be far better than the Start Menu. I admit that is a big problem that MS needs to address. It's not a huge problem for me, but I realize it is for some.

    Shortcut keys are pretty much the same, especially the Windows key. Push it once the Start Screen appears. Push it again it's back to the window screen I was at. Same as the Start Menu. It's no different in that respect. When I opened the Start Menu, I wasn't looking at the rest of the desktop, I was concentrating on the menu. I find it very much more informational while looking for something on the Start Screen in that live tiles are feeding me information while there. Who's emailing me, temperatures in multiple places, news headlines, etc. I don't have to open a program to get information. It's all at a glance. The Start Menu didn't do that for me.

    Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I absolutely love the look of the "Modern" Start Screen. It looks a whole lot better than the Start Menu IMO. I don't need no stinking Start Menu. That's my vote.
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  5. #25


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    When I opened the Start Menu, I wasn't looking at the rest of the desktop, I was concentrating on the menu. I find it very much more informational while looking for something on the Start Screen in that live tiles are feeding me information while there. Who's emailing me, temperatures in multiple places, news headlines, etc. I don't have to open a program to get information. It's all at a glance. The Start Menu didn't do that for me.
    And on the flip side, I find it distracting that when I need a program, which isn't pinned to my desktop, that when I flip over to the Start Screen...that I lose the ability to see my previous windows, my taskbars, my open applications, my Outlook email window.

    So, you see it positively that you can see all of your other information on the Start live tiles, and I see it negatively that I am losing all of that other information when I leave my desktop.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I absolutely love the look of the "Modern" Start Screen. It looks a whole lot better than the Start Menu IMO. I don't need no stinking Start Menu. That's my vote.

    So true. We all have different eyes. I don't like the look, or function of the new "Modern Start Screen" at all. I'd get rid of it in a heartbeat if I only could. And then i would want to get rid of that craptacular 2D, grey only, squared corner interface that I get on the desktop now. But now I am just nitpicking.


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  6. #26


    I always use Alt-F4 to close Windows (XP), and that works on Win8, so I did not realise that there is a problem there.

    As for the Metro interface always opening programs in full-screen - yes, that is annoying. After all, it's called 'Windows', yet it now gives preference to the non-windowed full screen mode. Contradiction here!
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  7. #27


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    Apropos to this, Ex7forW8 found here in the thread 'Windows 7 Original StartButton and metro Killer' absolutely rocks!
    Me, I'd prefer something along the lines of XPforW8..... I still prefer the way my XP looks to my kids' Win7....

    By the way, wherever does that phrase 'rocks' come from? One sees it all over the place nowadays...
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  8. #28


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    and I see it negatively that I am losing all of that other information when I leave my desktop.
    Do you not like hotspots or edge thumbnails? Do you use Windows 8? Do you use it as a standalone or virtual? Thumbnails are an image of the desktop. Even if in metro, you can see your desktop in a thumbnail or snap edge...and one can be there in a split second. If you use 8 in a virtual box, it may not work as well as a standalone install. Normal is what? I would say, yes, they would look for it (the start menu) obviously. But can - some - folks live without it? Yes. New young people, that have never used a computer before, may have never even seen a start menu and know nothing about it. They can get an orby system, if they want it. The Windows 7 start menu for me was a huge turn off, ... never liked the double pane block.

    Tired of nested menus...
    IMO, Hierarchies are a huge waste of time and are irrelevant
    to an effective and efficient use of an Operating System.
    Last edited by mdmd; 18 Oct 2012 at 16:27.
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  9. #29


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    C'mon Coke Robot -- you are so inconsistent in your views that you've probably been using some of the stuff allied to your username.

    This is NOTHING to do with Dinosaur or outdated technology -- if you have applications with a load of sub menus etc the whole start menu with NO HIERARCHIAL display makes the whole system essentially totally unfit for purpose.

    We don't need to left scroll for 3.5 KM or maybe 497 tiles to find the application we want to run.

    If you like the "KOOL SKULE Kiddie interface " fine for you -- but in an enterprise we don't work like this in any shape size or form. We have often several monitors and need Windowed applications -- true you can get to the application via the start menu but not with an inordinate amount of scrolling -- and even if you say just pin your app to desktop / taskbar shows you haven't understood in any way whatsoever about what the lack of a hierarchial menu structure means.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  10. #30


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Do you not like hotspots or edge thumbnails? Do you use Windows 8? Do you use it as a standalone or virtual? Thumbnails are an image of the desktop. Even if in metro, you can see your desktop in a thumbnail or snap edge...and one can be there in a split second.
    Let's go one by one

    Hotspots, you are talking about the edge corners right. They can be ok, especially on a single monitor display. They are more aggravating in a multiple monitor setup because it's harder to hit the corner without sliding to the next monitor

    Edge thumbails: I assume you mean when you to to the upper left, and then slide down slightly and see blocks for each of your open Metro apps as well as one for the destkop.


    Yes I do run Windows 8
    • One instance on a VM under VMWare Workstation
    • One copy of Windows 7 Pro 32bit running on a small form factor dell Desktop with 2GB of RAM and single screen
    • One copy of Windows 7 Enterprsie 64bit running on an XPS13 laptop with a single screen (at the moment)


    Here is a practical example of why I don't like going to the full screen start display. I'm on my desktop, and I am running the Microsoft Lync messaging client. I've got outlook open for my corporate email. And I'm running a FileZilla transfer and I have to let somebody know when the file transfer complaints.

    So, I hit the windows key and get the full screen Start Screen. I then decide to click on Mail live tile, which launches a full screen mail app. Meanwhile, on my desktop, a Lync pop-up has come up from a coworker who needs something from me. Unfortunately, when I am on the full screen start page, or running any of these Metro apps, nothing pops up to tell me that I have a lync message waiting. And since it's a work PC, I don't have speakers, so I didn't hear the lync messenger ding. So, I'm just fooling around inside of a metro app, when I have a desktop app awaiting my attention.

    Had I still had a start button and start menu, I would have seen the link pop up when it arrived as most of my desktop would still have been in view.

    If I have the desktop snapped to the left, I do see the blocks that represent my running apps. but since i have more then 3 things open at once, the newest stuff shows up at the bottom and thus I have to scroll down in the left frame to see my lync popup.
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