Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Hyper-V on Windows 8 client

  1. #1

    Hyper-V on Windows 8 client


    Well, I tried to use it a while back and found that my Core 2 Duo E8400 didn't support SLAT (secondary level address translation), therefore I wasn't able to put it through it's paces.

    I got the parts for a new computer at work and upgraded to a Core i7-3770 and finally got a chance to get hyper-V setup today. While it's nice that it is included by default with Windows, and it does have snapshot ability (nice plus over the free VMWare product), it's still a real PITA to work with Linux boxes on this thing. Not only did I have to download the Linux connectivity kit and then force an RPM install with a --nodeps switch, but I had to build the configuration files for the networking as well.

    Performance is pretty solid, but even though MS touts this as a type 1 hypervisor, it didn't really feel any speedier than VMWare Workstation 8. I find that the VMWare Workstation interface is much nicer than the Hyper-V manager that this product comes with by default.

    So, it's a good product and for primary Windows users, it should suffice and work great. For Linux users, I would stick with VMWare or VirtualBox at this time.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Now that you mentioned this:
    I also tried that on my dual core (t7500) which has VT-x but no SLAT , good that my i5 has both .

    Checking if your CPU has SLAT:
    How to Check if Your CPU Supports Second Level Address Translation (SLAT) - How-To Geek

    Speed between VBox, VMware and Hyper-V is not noticeable always, I think it depends what application is running at the moment in the VM.

    The fact Hyper-V is a type 1 hypervisor, makes the next test interesting: it should win the "overhead benchamark on some cpu intensive apps" contest, but I can be wrong about this.

    VMware Player vs VirtualBox vs Hyper-V

    I'm curious about the overhead on some applications. For instance I tested Red Alert 2 YR in a VM (weird example?) and it's known to fully use 1 single core of the CPU on a host. The test was made using a xp sp3 vm, 1cpu + 1024mb ram all on a Win7 x64 host:
    -VBox 4.2 rc4 uses 25% of the quad core (SINGLE CORE XP VM) => that's 1 core used on the host
    -VMPlayer 5 uses 50% of the same cpu (SINGLE CORE XP VM) => that's 2 cores used on the host
    -Hyper-V not yet tested

    Note that hardware virtualization was on for all tested examples above. PAE (physical address extension) is by default on in case of VMware and VBox can turn this on or off (no big deal in performance gain in the tested case).

    So it means that on some (cpu intensive) applications, although the VM is assigned to use 1 core in the guest (in case of VMware), it uses 2 cores in the host, meaning that 1 core is used for extra calculations/stuff.

    VBox didn't exceeded 1core on the host and that means less overhead with this program.

    Red Alert 2 is an old game but still it runs better on VBox (25% usage) than on Player (50% usage).

    I like trustworthy VM's that don't exceed the CPU usage mentioned in the settings, so VBox wins this round.
    Note that in case of something like Angry Birds in the VM, VMware Player wins, so it seems the overhead is application-dependent.

    Since I run iTunes in a VM only (don't want to bloat my host os), I can say that the encoding of aac goes a bit faster in the VMware Player VM.

    Now I'll try to run the same things on Hyper-V to see how that goes, but last time I used it, I didn't managed to transfer data between host and guest (be it shared folders, network drives, usb sticks, drag and drop!?) so maybe I'll get this working now (Hyper-V beginner issues).

    It's up to Hyper-V to take this test, I'll see if I get the time for a quick test...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopachi View Post
    The fact Hyper-V is a type 1 hypervisor, makes the next test interesting: it should win the "overhead benchamark on some cpu intensive apps" contest, but I can be wrong about this.
    I'm really questioning the decision to label Hyper-V as a type 1 hypervisor. It's like a play on words concept here.

    A type 1 hypervisor runs bare metal on a machine without a host operating system. That's the way that I always learned it. But now, we are saying that in the case of Hyper-V, a type 1 hypervisor has direct access to the hardware of the physical machine.

    Yesterday, I set up Hyper-V on Windows 8 and setup 2 VM's. I then purposely crashed my Windows 8 host machine. Guess what, the VM's went down with the ship.

    And compared to a true type 1 hypervisor (Xen Server, ESXi, Hyper-V standalone), there will have to be some performance hit for running Windows 8 as the host machine at the same time.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Yesterday, I set up Hyper-V on Windows 8 and setup 2 VM's. I then purposely crashed my Windows 8 host machine. Guess what, the VM's went down with the ship.

    And compared to a true type 1 hypervisor (Xen Server, ESXi, Hyper-V standalone), there will have to be some performance hit for running Windows 8 as the host machine at the same time.
    So Win8 crashed, crashing all the VM's. And this is not something the standalone wouldn't do... Thanks for mentioning this.
    It's core components must be somehow linked with Win8 and that makes it dependent on the os. I'll call it, if I'm allowed, "hybrid type 1" in this case.


    To complete the test I mentioned earlier:

    I managed to get the same XP VM going in Hyper-V on Win8 x64. The thing is you cannot fully compare it with VBox or Player unless you get a sound card or dx/opengl (at least the basics) running (is there even a way to achieve this in Hyper-V?).

    -the iTunes encoding went pretty fast, but with same results as VMware Player (as you said, there must be a performance hit).
    -you cannot run Angry Birds without opengl
    -and Red Alert 2 wasn't showing any interface onscreen

    On the other hand, I installed the integration tools and the 7zip benchmark exceeded Player and VBox scores.
    The restart and shutdown are flawless, faster than in Player (VBox is the fastest here but short sound and/or image glitches can happen)

    So Hyper-V has very low CPU overhead but you cannot test all applications without opengl or sound enabled. Probably it's intended for plain business use with about 8 mb graphics card or there may be tweaks that I don't know yet.

    Since only desktop usage is done in my case, I personally jump between VMware Player (drag and drop + good directx) and VirtualBox (snapshots + support and conversion for many virtual HDD's). I wouldn' t use Hyper-V for desktop usage since it's a bit complex for that (has many advanced features but lacks other basic desktop features: sound and video for example). The other disadvantage is that you cannot switch between Player & VBox on the same host if Hyper-V is enabled (the type 1 hypervisor excuse/rule: don't run a hypervisor in a hypervisor!).

    Cheers
    Hopachi
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Redmond
    Posts : 651
    Windows 8.1 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    I'm really questioning the decision to label Hyper-V as a type 1 hypervisor. It's like a play on words concept here.

    A type 1 hypervisor runs bare metal on a machine without a host operating system. That's the way that I always learned it. But now, we are saying that in the case of Hyper-V, a type 1 hypervisor has direct access to the hardware of the physical machine.

    Yesterday, I set up Hyper-V on Windows 8 and setup 2 VM's. I then purposely crashed my Windows 8 host machine. Guess what, the VM's went down with the ship.

    And compared to a true type 1 hypervisor (Xen Server, ESXi, Hyper-V standalone), there will have to be some performance hit for running Windows 8 as the host machine at the same time.
    Hyper-V is a type-1 hypervisor, but the original OS becomes the management partition. It differs from, say, ESX where the hypervisor management is part of the OS rather than the OS itself, but the virtualization itself is still type-1. Having a management partition does give you much more debugging and monitoring than a design like ESX, but the VMs are the same between the two, and the parent "management" partition is still subject to the same performance "fair use" rules as any of the other virtual machines running on the hypervisor. There's no performance hit other than a Microsoft Hyper-V installation always has at least one virtual machine always running on it - the management VM/partition.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    Quote Originally Posted by cluberti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    I'm really questioning the decision to label Hyper-V as a type 1 hypervisor. It's like a play on words concept here.

    A type 1 hypervisor runs bare metal on a machine without a host operating system. That's the way that I always learned it. But now, we are saying that in the case of Hyper-V, a type 1 hypervisor has direct access to the hardware of the physical machine.

    Yesterday, I set up Hyper-V on Windows 8 and setup 2 VM's. I then purposely crashed my Windows 8 host machine. Guess what, the VM's went down with the ship.

    And compared to a true type 1 hypervisor (Xen Server, ESXi, Hyper-V standalone), there will have to be some performance hit for running Windows 8 as the host machine at the same time.
    Hyper-V is a type-1 hypervisor, but the original OS becomes the management partition. It differs from, say, ESX where the hypervisor management is part of the OS rather than the OS itself, but the virtualization itself is still type-1. Having a management partition does give you much more debugging and monitoring than a design like ESX, but the VMs are the same between the two, and the parent "management" partition is still subject to the same performance "fair use" rules as any of the other virtual machines running on the hypervisor. There's no performance hit other than a Microsoft Hyper-V installation always has at least one virtual machine always running on it - the management VM/partition.
    I can see calling Windows Server 2012 hyper-v standalone a type 1 hypervisor...and I can see that OS as the managementVM/partition.

    However, i don't really feel that Windows 8 running the Hyper-V client is the same thing. The performance hit here is that the Windows 8 client OS system is a much larger footprint that say the ESXi OS or Hyper-V standalone Server Core only.

    Just my $0.02.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Redmond
    Posts : 651
    Windows 8.1 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    I can see calling Windows Server 2012 hyper-v standalone a type 1 hypervisor...and I can see that OS as the managementVM/partition.

    However, i don't really feel that Windows 8 running the Hyper-V client is the same thing. The performance hit here is that the Windows 8 client OS system is a much larger footprint that say the ESXi OS or Hyper-V standalone Server Core only.

    Just my $0.02.
    That's understandable, but that's one of the reasons why Windows 8 requires a SLAT-enabled CPU (and 2012 does not). The Windows 8 Hyper-V isn't meant to run server workloads, it's designed more for dev and test environments, so you'd expect things like dev tools and such on that Win8 management partition as well. SLAT allows you to do things like sleep/hibernate, play games, etc - which isn't something you'd want to even try without a SLAT-enabled CPU. I get the small footprint thing, but hyper-v on Win8 doesn't have really the same usage-case scenarios as it's goals as say an enterprise server would.
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  8. #8


    Redmond
    Posts : 651
    Windows 8.1 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopachi View Post
    So Hyper-V has very low CPU overhead but you cannot test all applications without opengl or sound enabled. Probably it's intended for plain business use with about 8 mb graphics card or there may be tweaks that I don't know yet.
    It is, but remember you can RDP into it, which allows you to do things like redirect drives, audio, etc. But again, it's really meant to be a dev/test environment, not a compatibility environment. The server side of things allows you to virtualize video cards to use things like RemoteFX to accelerate DirectX and other video and image things inside the VM over RDP, but it's not meant for gaming, for instance. It *can* be used as a compatibility vessel for old applications and such, to a point (similar to what MED-V does on Windows 7), but it is what it is. It's good that there are lots of virtualization options for Windows, but Hyper-V is Microsoft's enterprise virtualization stack. It makes sense that's kinda what it's designed for . There are some type-2 virtualization products that can do some of the acceleration inside the VM and viewer, so if you're looking for that sort of thing, it can be done. However, I don't know what kind of performance you'd get compared to dual-booting, for instance, and running that OS natively.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Quote Originally Posted by cluberti View Post
    The Windows 8 Hyper-V isn't meant to run server workloads, it's designed more for dev and test environments, so you'd expect things like dev tools and such on that Win8 management partition as well. SLAT allows you to do things like sleep/hibernate, play games, etc - which isn't something you'd want to even try without a SLAT-enabled CPU. I get the small footprint thing, but hyper-v on Win8 doesn't have really the same usage-case scenarios as it's goals as say an enterprise server would.
    Totally understand on the desktop side....not being intended for server workloads. I would look at it as a potential replacement for having to use something like VMWare Workstation which is what I currently use on my desktop for all of my side testing, proof of concept stuff, etc.

    I've been playing with the new 2012 Hyper-V quite a bit as we are considering it as a possible replacement for some of our small VMWare vSphere implementations. Historically, I have been very turned off with Hyper-V, however it's hard to not see the additional costs we are paying with vSphere for functionality that we get for free with Hyper-V. We have licenses at my job for SCVMM (System Center Virtual Machine Manager) and they are already paid for via our Enterprise agreement, so it
    certainly provides a strong incentive. Thank goodness they have made the integration between Windows 8 and Hyper-V 2012 standalone more straightforward as far as remote management goes (although it really seems much harder than it needs to be) and not terribly well documented by Microsoft...but I did manage to get it going today.
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  10. #10


    Redmond
    Posts : 651
    Windows 8.1 x64


    If you're not doing domain-based, it's a bit more of an uphill battle for sure. HVRemote is your friend there, whereas once you're in a domain environment it's easier. The hardest is actually going from workgroup client to domain Hyper-V, so hopefully you aren't running into issues there.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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