Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


UEFI Bootable USB Flash Drive - Create in Windows

  1. #270


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,489
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Akeo View Post
    I can't help but still be sceptical, sorry.

    Can I ask you to check one thing? Using any Windows installation ISO for Windows 7 or later, can you please create a bootable NTFS based USB, using the Windows 7 DVD tool, then, once it's completed, delete the 'bootmgr' file at the root of the drive (but not 'bootmgr.efi') and see if you can still boot that USB on your ASUS system.

    This should tell for sure whether MBR or UEFI is being used for booting that NTFS drive.
    I just gave it a go, booted up to it fine. I went as far as the enter product code screen and then quit.

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  2. #271


    .ie
    Posts : 35
    Windows 7 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    I'll give it a go when I have time.
    Thanks.

    You can take as long as you want, as even if we confirm that there exist UEFI implementations supporting NTFS boot, adding UEFI/NTFS support in Rufus is likely to be very low priority. To benefit from it, you'd have to be one of the few people wanting to use an EFI bootable ISO with a >4GB file and one of the few people with an NTFS-supporting UEFI firmware => I don't see that many users being in both these categories.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    All the indications are Windows is installed in UEFI mode.
    Yeah, it looks that way to me too, which is why I'm puzzled. As I pointed out, the UEFI guys had to pull a special licensing agreement for their use of FAT32, so they'd probably have to do the same for NTFS, in which case (because there would be a need for UEFI implementers to have open access to it) Microsoft would have to open part of their specs online... which they don't seem to be keen on doing.

    Now (and this is shamefully copied from here), the Wikipedia article on UEFI states:

    The UEFI specification explicitly requires support for FAT32 for system partitions, and FAT12/FAT16 for removable media; specific implementations may support other file systems
    So it is possible that ASUS (or AMI/Phoenix/whoever) have a deal with Microsoft that allows them to produce custom UEFI implementation with NTFS support.
    Still, if they did that just to enable support for >4GB files, the benefits don't quite seem to match the cost...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #272


    .ie
    Posts : 35
    Windows 7 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    I just gave it a go, booted up to it fine. I went as far as the enter product code screen and then quit.
    Interesting. So it seems that there exists an UEFI firmware out there that supports booting with NTFS.

    Will have to see if other manufacturers go this road too.

    Many thanks for the test!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #273


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,489
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Akeo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    I just gave it a go, booted up to it fine. I went as far as the enter product code screen and then quit.
    Interesting. So it seems that there exists an UEFI firmware out there that supports booting with NTFS.

    Will have to see if other manufacturers go this road too.

    Many thanks for the test!
    For me it all started in another thread. I forget what the original problem was but it had something to do with creating a bootable thumb drive to install windows from with UEFI. It was mentioned that the drive had to be formatted in fat32. I had a wait a minute moment as I had used the Windows 7 DVD download tool that formats in NTFS. Everything I looked at on my laptop indicated I had installed in UEFI with an NTFS formatted thumb drive. Before that I had not given it any thought and just created my drives the way I had for Windows 7. My laptop was my first PC with a UEFI BIOS. It was all new to me. At some point I'll do some more testing on my Wife's new Acer laptop. It's still running the factory Windows 8 install. I've cleaned up some of the factory junk but other than that I haven't done much to it. All she does is Facebook and its working fine so I've left it alone.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #274


    Posts : 5,592
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by Akeo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    I just gave it a go, booted up to it fine. I went as far as the enter product code screen and then quit.
    Interesting. So it seems that there exists an UEFI firmware out there that supports booting with NTFS.

    Will have to see if other manufacturers go this road too.

    Many thanks for the test!
    If you could boot & install without a FAT32 FS, I am sure Apple Mac & Linux would use their own FS.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #275


    .ie
    Posts : 35
    Windows 7 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    If you could boot & install without a FAT32 FS, I am sure Apple Mac & Linux would use their own FS.
    This requires support at the BIOS manufacturer level, so, for one, "Linux" cannot go to Abit, ASUS, Gigabyte & co. (or more realistically AMI, Phoenix & co.) and, regardless of feasibility, demand that these guys invest time and $$$ to get one of ext2/ext3/ext4 supported. The best "Linux" could do would try to push for ext support in Tianocore, but even then, as long as it's not mandated by the UEFI specs, it would still be up to the mobo manufacturer to decide whether they want to (again) invest time and $$$ having to support something that few people are likely to use.

    As far as Linux is concerned, then, it's unrealistic to expect there will be much traction when the decision boils down to a product manager's "Do we expect to make money out of ext# support in an UEFI firmware for our next motherboard? No? Then don't bother".
    It has nothing to do with what Linux people may want or any kind of technological impediment.

    Now, Apple can do whatever they want with their EFI firmware, since they are their own manufacturer and, unlike what is the case for NTFS (or even FAT), they don't have to strike an alliance between multiple parties to get their way, or sort a licensing agreement. Thus, since there really isn't much technological hurdle to add HFS/HFS+ support and the EFI specs state it's fine to add support for any alternate FS you want, if it was to their advantage they would have added it. And the kicker is: they totally did:

    It includes a read-only HFS+ filesystem driver in addition to the standard read-write FAT driver.
    All this to say that: the problem is not a technological hurdle. UEFI is modular, and it is no more difficult to add support for ext#, HFS, UDF or NTFS, at the technical level, than it is to add support for FAT32. All you need is a comprehensive set of specs, a licensing agreement (if needed), and a bunch of developers. That's all there is to it, really, and Apple actually proved that.


    This being said, and even with all the evidence that alphanumeric put forward, I too can't shake the feeling that maybe we're still missing something somewhere, mostly because I can't figure out the rationale for ASUS to add something like NTFS support, so (when I get a chance) I'm planning to spend some time having a closer looks at what the Windows 7 USB tool does, as well as try to peek into the ASUS UEFI firmware to see if there's any trace of an NTFS module. I logged a Rufus Enhancement Request to do just that.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #276


    Ghent, Belgium
    Posts : 13
    Windows 8 Enterprise 64-bit


    I gave it a shot and I'm also able to install Windows 8 in UEFI while the thumb drive is formatted in NTFS MBR.
    To be honest, I unknowingly installed it with these settings a few days ago.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #277


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,489
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by toerk View Post
    I gave it a shot and I'm also able to install Windows 8 in UEFI while the thumb drive is formatted in NTFS MBR.
    To be honest, I unknowingly installed it with these settings a few days ago.
    Ah, thank you for that, now I know its not just me. Looks like its doable on ASUS PC's/motherboards.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #278


    Posts : 2
    Windows


    Hello my Friends ! This is my first post in this forum - mayby not last !
    At the beginning i want to apologize for my english.

    I didn't know anything about an "UEFI" so i created standard bootable usb driver (I've got .ISO with Windows from MSDN). Everything was good, i formated partition 4 (C:ACER) and when i wanted to install windows on this clean partition, i just saw a information about "GPT"...
    I was looking for information about in and finally, i found this forum !

    I am very embarrassed because i don't know what can i do more, for finally install Windows 7 in my new Acer Aspire V3-571G.

    I checked twice tutorial and i everything do correctly.
    Problem begins, when i boot laptop from USB and Windows ends "Loading Files..."
    The only thing i see is a black screen with text "Starting Windows" and under - "Microsoft Corporation". I would add, that i saw yellow lines for about 2 seconds at the top of the screen.

    I want to install Windows 7 Professional N x64 on my new laptop with originally installed Windows 8 x64.
    However, i am using pendrive with USB 2.0 standard. This problem appears in USB 2.0 slot and USB 3.0 Slot


    MY BIOS SETTINGS:

    • MAIN
    • GRAPHIC MODE : SWITCHABLE/INTEGRATED
    • NETWORK BOOT: DISABLED
    • F12 BOOT MOENU: ENABLED
    • WAKE ON LAN: DISABLED
    • SATA MODE: AHCI MODE/IDE MODE
    • SECURITY
    • SUPERVISOR PASSWORD IS: [SET]
    • USER PASSWORDS IS: [CLEAR] <- I made this pass because this enabled me to disable secure boot
    • HDD PASSWORD IS: [FROZEN]
    • [Erase all Secure Boot Settings]
    • [Select an UEFI file as trusted for executing]
    • [Restore Secure Boot to Factory Default]
    • BOOT
    • BOOT MODE: DEFI/LEGACY BIOS (when i am choosing DEFI, W7 is starting but...
    • SECURE BOOT: DISABLE


    Can anyone help me with this problem? I want to save my recovery partition with Windows 8. I can add, that when i want to "recovery windows 8", i've got a message that a windows can't find a partition. When i want to restore system, i've got the same problem...
    Last edited by polaklbn; 01 Dec 2013 at 22:41.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #279


    Posts : 22,479
    64-bit Windows 10


    Hello polaklbn, and welcome to Eight Forums.

    For now, see if the tutorial below may be able to help with this.

    Downgrade Windows 8 to Windows 7
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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UEFI Bootable USB Flash Drive - Create in Windows
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