Windows 'Blue': Microsoft blows it

If you like Windows 8, you'll like -- maybe even love -- Windows 8.1 "Blue." But if you're a denizen of the old-fashioned Desktop world, without a yearning for touch and/or you don't want your PC to act like a smartphone, Windows 8.1 will disappoint -- big time.
Last week, Microsoft invited several members of the press for an on-the-record two-hour demo of Windows 8.1, code-named "Blue." Microsoft took me off its Christmas card list some time ago, but the reports among journos on the ground are telling: Windows 8.1 offers more of the same, with a few new twists for touch users, but nothing substantive for the Desktop.

Windows 'Blue': Microsoft blows it | Microsoft windows - InfoWorld

 

[Ruudfood]

But I, and millions like me, work primarily or exclusively in the desktop, and we had, quite reasonably, hoped that there might be something for us. But no.

Wenda.

My comment wasn't directed at you in particular Wenda, more the article in the OP. But since you responded I'd like to highlight the comment above. "Something" isn't particularly helpful to me or Microsoft. Again, fair enough that Libraries are gone and SkyDrive is the default - valid complaints but that's more to do with working practices rather than what COULD have been added to Windows 8 to make the desktop experience more pleasant!

 

[Coke Robot]

Right, they never removed choice. Got any other tall tales to share, lmao.

Is it that 8 just isn't being used much that disturbs you so much? You seem as if you have a financial stake in the success of w8, that must really blow.

I would say better luck with 8.1 but I fear that it will just be more of the same. MS trying to tell it's customers what they need. Like it worked out so well for w8, yeah.

No. And no. I already knew Windows 8 from the start wasn't going to be adopted like 7 ever was, that's never going to happen. And even then if I did have a financial stake in Windows 8, it would be tied back to Microsoft of which their stock is hovering 35.55 as I write this, which is a pretty large gain over 28-29 a share. So doesn't matter if Windows 8 doesn't do well. Which it won't.

Have more theories to tell of?

 

[Coke Robot]

Actually, for those who think I'm a nay-sayer or a Luddite (looking at you, Cokie) I'd just like to point out that I was unaware that I'd even mentioned the start menu (checks.... nope, didn't). In fact, go check my post history, and you'll see that I've never at any stage bagged Windows 8.

Aspects of it, yes. Show me any OS that's 100% perfect. But the OS as a whole? No. Did I ever post that I was 'going back to 7'? No.

And of course there's the small but salient fact that after using it through most of its beta phase, I then went and purchased it.

Now, I couldn't care less whether the start menu comes back or not. If it does, great. If not, no biggie. I'd just work around it. Same with the Start screen. If it's there, I'll customise it the way I like it, as I've done in 8. If not, so what? And I did say I liked the idea of small tiles, although I've no use for larger ones.

But I, and millions like me, work primarily or exclusively in the desktop, and we had, quite reasonably, hoped that there might be something for us. But no. All they managed to do was booger File Explorer up by getting rid of Libraries and making Skydrive the default save location. No, thanks, I won't be using the cloud. not now, not in the future. And I don't like an OS that's set up to do so by default.

Cokie, you and your merry band might not like the idea that the 'desktop' isn't dying, but you better accept it because many of us will not be following you to your utopia, but will be remaining here to create the content you consume. Because quality content sure won't be getting created on tablets or phones.

Sure, mobile computing is there if you want it, but so are desktop/laptops, and they will not be going away in our lifetime. I resent the implication (or outright accusation, from some) that I'm some kind of fossil who can't adapt, or newbie who won't learn, simply because I find aspects of the current trend unwelcome and unwanted. I've been computing since well before the days of the PC, and have learned more OSes than some of you have had hot breakfasts. But some of you really are starting to sound like the fanbois on ZDnet, which I find sad and disappointing.

There's room for the tablet/phone AND the desktop/laptop, but some fanbois can't or won't see it.


End rant.


Wenda.

I'll refute.

No, I never said YOU in particular were a luddite. I don't see as such.

File Explorer is superior in 8 than 7, Task Manager as well, Libraries in 8.1 are most likely still there we don't know, and SkyDrive isn't the default save location.

The Desktop has what it needs. What more does it need? More gloss? The point is, Windows 7 is basically the climax of the Windows 95 UI model. There isn't much to make better. It could have UI redesigns, but that isn't point. The Desktop UI is one that originated in the time where Xerox executives laughed at a thing called a mouse. It's not a UI that will be there in the future. Simple as that. As time progresses, more development will occur in the WinRT form of Windows (considering of course that environment matures) leaving the old behind. That's just what's going to happen.

The desktop PC itself has been a dying breed for many years now. What is there that is going to somehow bring about a joyous, spontaneous upheaval of the desktop? Nothing. Not many in the consumer space care for it other than nerds like us, or the enterprise as well.

Laptops are mobile computing, just like a tablet or a smartphone. No one said you can't learn something new.

And whatever happened to me just becoming a blind fanboy that sees NOTHING wrong with anything? My God, every time there was a thread about a wish list of features in Windows 8, I was the very first people to post with a WHOLE LIST of things I want to see. It wasn't a simple few things like smaller tiles, it was more a like whole thorough list from UI changes on the Desktop, better WinRT usage, etc.

 

[pparks1]

Am I the only one wondering what all the naysayers who are criticising Microsoft and Windows 8 actually want from the desktop? Is it just a start menu? Windows 7 was a magnificent operating system and with a few minor exceptions NOTHING has been taken away from the desktop functionality in Windows 8.

So what do people want exactly?

This is easy, and I'll explain it using as few words as possible

1). People always want choice. In all past versions of Windows, when a new layout for the start menu came along, there was always an option for the "classic" start menu. However, they just dropped the start menu 100% for the start screen.
2). Some people don't want the "entire" screen consumed by the list of installed apps. I work almost always with multiple apps open and with large monitors I never run anything full screen, so when I open the start screen and it takes over my whole monitor, I'm just annoyed.
3). Some people don't like the fact that metro apps cannot be resized (without 3rd party utilities...like Stardock ModernMix). Also, we are annoyed that the snap feature is locked down to a certain size. (this is going to improve in Blue, but it's still just a side to side snap, no up and down and no customizable size).
4). People want consistency. My wife has a new Windows 8 touchscreen laptop. She uses Start8 for a start menu and she boots directly to the desktop. The other day when she tried to play an MP3, it opened the full screen music player and she became confused as to 1). How to get out of the app and 2). How to get back into the app later. Sure, techies will say swipe from the left, use the upper right hot corner, hit Alt-tab...but as a standard average user...she doesn't know these commands and they aren't just obvious in the software. In the past this was far less an issue because the app would be on the desktop and then minimize to the taskbar where it could be found. The new Metro app is nowhere to be found in the desktop taskbar. Shoot, my wife wouldn't even know it was a "new UI app", or "app" or "metro app". She doesn't know the technical differences here and she doesn't give a damn...but she wants to know how to get out of and app and back into it.
5). The start screen becomes a mess and you have to hide and remove tiles..or opt to scroll 2km to the right when you install lots of apps. It's just ugly and requires maintenance.
6). Some like the visual aspects of Aero. They would have have shiny and transparent. Some people like chrome on their car, others do not. But for those on desktops and laptops and not concerned with the impact on battery life, we aren't blown away by the drib-drab boring 2-D look of Windows 8. Some think it's better. But a choice and an option would have been great.

Windows 8 for me would have been 100% fine had I been able to
1). Turn on start menu (not a start screen)
2). Boot straight to desktop. Because there is nothing "yet" appealing about Metro. Why see it everytime I start my computer. Just put me on the desktop.

With these changes, I am happy (and achieved it with Stardock Start8). If I used any Metro apps, I would be tolerant with Stardock ModernMix. But both levels of functionality should be a choice, perhaps not the default, but certainly a choice.

 

[Wenda]

I am so enthusiastic about this 'vision of the future' that people keep carping on about and wanting computing to go, that if/when it does, I'll cheerfully bin my machines and go buy a book. And yes, I do feel that strongly about it. Why bother to stick with a hobby that's no longer fun and enjoyable, that restricts what you can do, and that charges you every time you turn the machine on?

Almost none of my computing needs can be met by tablets, and those that can be met are a chore to perform. I need a powerful laptop/desktop to do what I do. So I should just give up and watch YouTube or chat on Farce-book instead? And be happy with that? Just because it's someone else's 'vision'? No, thanks!

I will not go the dumbed-down, underpowered, content-consumption-only, pay for everything continuously route.

That's not 'real' computing, and never will be. It's not computing at all, actually. No more than looking at your digital watch is computing.

You don't call yourself a TV producer if you only watch a show. So if all you are doing is consuming content, you are not computing. A future like that? That's not a vision, it's a nightmare, and you're welcome to it, but I'll have no part of it.

Not now, not ever.


Wenda.


EDIT: Many younger ones are computer-illiterate enough as it is, this 'utopia' won't help that, but will accelerate it. Being able to turn a tablet on and log onto Farcebook is not being 'computer literate', a monkey could do it (and often they do, it seems).

 

[burtie]

I am so enthusiastic about this 'vision of the future' that people keep carping on about and wanting computing to go, that if/when it does, I'll cheerfully bin my machines and go buy a book. And yes, I do feel that strongly about it. Why bother to stick with a hobby that's no longer fun and enjoyable, that restricts what you can do, and that charges you every time you turn the machine on?

Almost none of my computing needs can be met by tablets, and those that can be met are a chore to perform. I need a powerful laptop/desktop to do what I do. So I should just give up and watch YouTube or chat on Farce-book instead? And be happy with that? Just because it's someone else's 'vision'? No, thanks!

I will not go the dumbed-down, underpowered, content-consumption-only, pay for everything continuously route.

That's not 'real' computing, and never will be. It's not computing at all, actually. No more than looking at your digital watch is computing.

You don't call yourself a TV producer if you only watch a show. So if all you are doing is consuming content, you are not computing. A future like that? That's not a vision, it's a nightmare, and you're welcome to it, but I'll have no part of it.

Not now, not ever.


Wenda.


EDIT: Many younger ones are computer-illiterate enough as it is, this 'utopia' won't help that, but will accelerate it. Being able to turn a tablet on and log onto Farcebook is not being 'computer literate', a monkey could do it (and often they do, it seems).

I feel the same as you.

This is also happening with gaming consoles, and the "next gen" will be the first time I wont be taking part.

 

[SIW2]

There is something that reminds me of win 8 about 38 secs in :


Idiocracy - Trailer - YouTube

Many younger ones are computer-illiterate enough as it is, this 'utopia' won't help that, but will accelerate it. Being able to turn a tablet on and log onto Farcebook is not being 'computer literate', a monkey could do it (and often they do, it seems).

And another - nice big touch screen anyone? :




Idiocracy Mash-up - YouTube

 

[Hopachi]

There is something that looks suspiciously like win 8 about 38 secs in :


Idiocracy - Trailer - YouTube

Many younger ones are computer-illiterate enough as it is, this 'utopia' won't help that, but will accelerate it. Being able to turn a tablet on and log onto Farcebook is not being 'computer literate', a monkey could do it (and often they do, it seems).

And another - nice big touch screen anyone? :

View attachment 22702


Idiocracy Mash-up - YouTube

Didn't see that one coming!

Nice big readable ads I see in the screenshot. Unlike those on smaller screens...

 

[XweAponX]

I guess the phrase Microsoft touted quite a lot before releasing Windows 8 was "The new Windows for new PCs" got lost SO BADLY in interpretation...

I personally believe that Microsoft should do whatever the hell they feel best for their company and its future. Their future doesn't revolved around the desktop PC, start menus, or relying on OEMs to deliver poor user experiences until a year or so after releasing a new Windows version. If you don't like that direction, well, tough titties. The world has changed greatly computing wise in five years, much more dramatic than it did 10 years before that. Don't like that fact? Well, go live under a rock. This is simple called "adapting to the current market." The current market isn't a box with parts it in it connected to an external monitor with a mouse. It's hasn't been that way for years, because obviously the very definition of "computer" has turned into a laptop. THAT is the current state of the market, which is undergoing a shift from that to tablet PCs and phablets. Don't like that trend? Don't know what to tell you.

Also, Microsoft NEVER removed a choice from Windows, AT ALL. If you want the newer aspects of Windows and like the direction they are going, go with Windows 8. It's superior, better flexibility, more ways to interact with it than every before. But if you don't like that direction nor like the newer aspects of Windows 8, YOU HAVE THE CHOICE OF WINDOWS 7. It's been there, currently is still selling, will be supported like Windows xp (and in fact by the time 7 is EOL'ed, we'll be calling the people using 7 dinosaurs). It's like Windows 8, but it doesn't have a Start Screen. Simple as that. Maybe it's not Microsoft forcing users to use Windows 8, it's more like some are forcing THEMSELVES to use Windows 8....

I think I understand you, as I like Windows 8 quite a bit. It is not the total failure like Vista was - Memory Hog, forced upgrade of hardware, and you had to address those issues before running Vista successfully. Windows 8 works an a HUGE variety of computers even with older hardware, Vista forced you to add mroe Ram, Faster Processor, Bigger Hard Drive. My computers run at breakneck speed, I've been impressed with this since the start.

I've had Windows 8 running on an 80 gig HD. But Choice was removed - Unless you are willing to Mod your OS. Many people just do not know what that means. They see the Metro interface and run away, despite seeing it running in Desktop mode on my 40" LCDTV.

So, it's the first impression that initially drives away customers in large record numbers.

This depresses me, because in Desktop Mode it is a FINE OS. IK really have not had many problems at all, despite having to check for Read Element Failure once a month, but I do that anyway regardless of OS. Once I developed a way to repair the OS outside of Windows itself, by manually checking my drives, I havent had any huge crashes for a month and a half - The Systems they built in to continually scan the Filesystems automatically prevent a multitude of developing problems.

But to say there are Choices - We are talking about Windows 8 here, not removing it and returning to 7. We have the choice of running Stardock. That's about it - Getting into Safe Mode is still a difficult task, and one which cannot be done if your OS is not in almost perfect health.

This is my main gripe. The idea of Safe Mode was to get you into a Minimized version of your Desktop - FAST, and inside of a Windows installation which is not running properly. If 8 is not almost perfect, NONE of these "choices" are available to us. It is like this - The Auto Diag and Repair systems will detect a problem, but will not run unless the system can boot. And if the system does not go through the many processes that occur during boot, none of these tasks will be performed.

I am hoping that maybe they changed these issues with 8.1, so that Safe mode can be gotten to without the incredible amount of HOOPS required now.

So, from my POV, 8.1 cannot be released fast enough. But to find out - They are NOT REALLY returning the Start Menu to the Desktop, well, what do I do, keep my system as it is? Because Stardock will have to Mod it's current version of Start8 to accommodate the "Fake Start Menu".

Look Cokey, I know you love Windows 8, you like more of it than I do, because you use more if the Metro maybe. - I Don't though, I rarely use it. But Microsoft seems to be trying to PUSH this Metro Interface onto us Desktop Users, and we aren't having it.

If I can Mod 8.1 the same way I can mod 8, I'll be happy. But I would be happier if I could just boot to Desktop without having to install ANY mods. And have a real Windows 7 style Start Menu. Microsoft removed it, due to the wrong impression that "People just don't use it that much anymore" and how WRONG they were.

And that M$ is trying to convince us that Windows 8 is POPULAR - With that "100 Million Sold" - But not really sold - It just gives us the impression they are not being HONEST. They tried this with Vista too, they tried to say that since a bunch of Millions of Licences were "Sold" - That there were that many Working versions of Vista in the actual World. But in fact, people deleted the F out of it. Like they are doing to 8 as well.

I've used every form of persuasion to try to convince the very few of my customers who had Windows 8 on a new PC to KEEP it. and I have not been able to sell ONE copy of it. On the inverse of that, I've made Microsoft a BUNCH of money by selling Windows 7 licenses up the Wazoo. And I have NO Problems doing that, my customers say, when I inform them that we need to install 7, to "Go Ahead and Buy it".

This just tells me that many more people, real people who buy real things, are much mroe resistant to 8 they they ever were to Vista, and this also depresses me, because IT'S NOT REALLY BAD!

In a way, it makes me angry. I have my own complaints against the OS, but none of them have caused me to remove it and I won't, because once you learn how it works, it works well. But try to convince the purchasing public of this, it is difficult, because they have stated flatly that they will absolutely refuse to even try it.

 

[XweAponX]

There is something that reminds me of win 8 about 38 secs in :


Idiocracy - Trailer - YouTube

Many younger ones are computer-illiterate enough as it is, this 'utopia' won't help that, but will accelerate it. Being able to turn a tablet on and log onto Farcebook is not being 'computer literate', a monkey could do it (and often they do, it seems).

And another - nice big touch screen anyone? :

View attachment 22702


Idiocracy Mash-up - YouTube

Bringing up "Idiocracy" - Aka "The Marching Morons" by Cyril M Kornbluth, is perfect - Because Windows 8 DOES pander to that type of mentality- Maybe not by design, but by the way the M$ 'Store" has been appropriated by thousands of little worthless useless Ad-Apps.

It is is Bright and Shiny, if it is BIG, if it has flashy primary Colours, certain people will BUY it.

But the reason why this FAILS as a selling point, is because the Human Race has not really degraded to the point of sheer idiocy maintained in that film and in the original short story it was based on. Unless you are maybe talking about the denizens of Red States and Westboro Baptist Crutchurch, who don't really believe in the technology anyway, but they use it to play with nice shiny baubles as long as it has "Jeezis" in Huge Block Letters all over it- and maybe also some patriotic looking graphics. Tos a few pics of Jeezis on something, and Emblems with Eagles on it, and Red White and Blue colours apps, and they'll use anything.

But they really do not believe in the science which drives this tech.

These represent basically a very SMALL portion of the population of the US, and since they are in the Ozarks and cannot afford new Windows 8 Machines, then they are out of the visible pool of possible Computer Buyers.

But most people who accept things like Science and Tech, will at least Try Windows 8 - If they understand that they are not confined to this Tiled "Desktop" of huge coloured Squares that if you press on one, maybe will show you another huge coloured square. And if you are lucky, will afford you some Productivity. But you would have to browse through hundreds of thousands of nice shiny baubles in the MS Store to find a few that have inherent productivity potential.

 

[alphanumeric]

For those of you that say, "well just use Windows 7" That's a fair statement but! It's not as easy as it sounds if you're buying a new device. To get downgrade rights you have to buy 8 Pro so that's more money. Even then it can be a hassle for those that may not have the technical skills a lot of use here have. You have to get the Windows 7 install media from the manufacturer then do a clean install or factory restore etc, etc. Having the option to just turn metro off or turn on the classic start menu is something that would make life a lot easier for some users. I think some of use loss sight of the fact that not everybody is as skilled as a lot of use here are and that what seems so easy for use is not so easy for the average joe.

 

[jeffrys]

So I guess they are guaranteeing Stardock record profits this year.

Yes, i am a regular client Stardock client (5 licenses for Decor 8, 5 for Modernmix), even asked them to find a solution to get rid of the OLD startmenu, but no reply here.

Tried Start8 for 5 minutes, then deleted it.

If ever Stardock can arrange avoiding the OLD startmenu, i buy the program immediatly.

It would be nice if MS would give that option at setup.

Jeff

 

[ncgmac]

Just my two cents with the rest of the world. I am one who agrees they should have left the start menu as an option. Every version of Windows since Windows XP has had a "classic mode." It is mind boggling they did not do that this time given the drastic paradigm shift, if nothing else they should have done it for the business clients, where the biggest part of their income stream is.

That being said, Windows 8 for the desktop does work well. Mouse navigation also is good. The real issue is Microsoft's total failure in marketing just the touch and mobile aspects, and pushing manufacturers to produce Frankenstein hybrids. If they had actually marketed to their 1.5 billion customers how to use the new features on a desktop or traditional laptop I think the hate would be tuned down. What is piddling off a lot of people, me included, is the idea of them assuming they can force an entire industry into a new physical PC model. While mobile has it's uses, it is not a universal device, nor will it ever be.