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Windows 8 WORST on TABLET

phailyoor

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Everyone says Win8 is supposed to be great on tablets. It's not. It's actually significantly worse than windows 7.
Issues:
Two finger right click removed-In 7, right clicking on a touchscreen was an instant two finger tap. Now it's a 2- second hold.
Touch flicks removed-Actually useful touch gestures
No start button-A hot corner is fine for the mouse, but it takes swipe-wait-tap to open the start menu on a tablet.
OSK popover removed-no more popover when selecting a text field
OSK Not resizable
Javascript "apps" destroy my "weak" processor-I can't run cut the rope smoothly on win8, while it runs smoothly on those atom phones and on those really cheap android tabs.
 
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tcman50

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Are these issues with windows 8 or the tablet you are trying it on?
 

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phailyoor

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They are things that worked fine in windows 7 and do not work fine in windows 8. They are also definitely not driver/software compatibility issues.
 

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cluberti

Cat herder
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Two finger right click removed-In 7, right clicking on a touchscreen was an instant two finger tap. Now it's a 2- second hold.
Probably a design change due to the touch/drag nature of Win8. Note holding also did a right-click on Windows 7, so while I would agree hold and tap was a nice gesture, hold and slightly move (at least in the new start pane) does the same thing. I believe you still have to hold on the desktop.

No start button-A hot corner is fine for the mouse, but it takes swipe-wait-tap to open the start menu on a tablet.
My relatively "old" Win8 tablet (Samsung Series 7) has a Windows button on the front, so that's tablet specific. If it's important, make sure your Win8 device has a Windows button.

Javascript "apps" destroy my "weak" processor-I can't run cut the rope smoothly on win8, while it runs smoothly on those atom phones and on those really cheap android tabs.
It runs fine on a nicer processor, but Atoms don't run in phones other than Intel's current (new) phone platform on Medfield (with old GPU hardware simply clocked up to boot - it might be good, but it also might not be... wait and see I suppose), and cheap android tabs and phones run on ARM chips. Ultimately, this isn't a good comparison, although Atom chips from the N2xx era seem to run some things well, but games, not so much. ARM chips (with video hardware onboard, don't forget) do much better at this due to their design and again, dedicated video hardware.

Just because an app can be written in HTML and javascript doesn't make it "easy" for a CPU to run - this isn't your web javascript (graphics and filesystem calls and networking, and everything else, are still calls to the WinRT layer to do the work - javascript/HTML is just the programming "languages" used). Also, the Intel Atom of even this past year wasn't designed for anything that required more than simple tasks (and even then, sometimes it wasn't really great at some of those, either). For reference, it took until Atom N4xx/D4xx/Z6xx hardware in 2010 to get a GPU included (and not on-die, either), and actually (maybe) competitive Atom chips won't show up until later this year (see Lenovo's Thinkpad 2) which will have an on-die GPU, which will (again, hopefully) make up the performance delta between current ARM chips that Win8 will run on and Atom. Having x86 compat is nice, but for a throw-around device (that still will include the basic components of Office 2013 included), an ARM device will be a much better performer, and at far lower power usage to boot.
 

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Coke Robot

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Really? I've tried 7 with touch and 8 with touch and 8 is WAY more better to use. I found it actually to be entertaining, that was literally the first time I've ever had a blast using a PC just using the UI.

In all honestly, a swipe and tap to get to Start isn't detrimental I find. And I never noticed that 7 allowed a double tap for right click context menu, I just did the tap and hold.

What tablet are you using?
 

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phailyoor

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Probably a design change due to the touch/drag nature of Win8. Note holding also did a right-click on Windows 7, so while I would agree hold and tap was a nice gesture, hold and slightly move (at least in the new start pane) does the same thing. I believe you still have to hold on the desktop.
Unfortunately, press and hold is the only way to right click in win8, unless I am mistaken.
My relatively "old" Win8 tablet (Samsung Series 7) has a Windows button on the front, so that's tablet specific. If it's important, make sure your Win8 device has a Windows button.
Yes, there is a physical button, but it's located in an awkward part and takes more force to press than the onscreen start button.
...an ARM device will be a much better performer, and at far lower power usage to boot.
An Atom actually has comparable performance to modern ARM chips. My point is that javascript, by definition, is slower than managed or native code.
 

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heffe2001

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An Atom actually has comparable performance to modern ARM chips. My point is that javascript, by definition, is slower than managed or native code.

And this is Windows 8's fault? As far as say cut the rope, it's not java based on my phone as far as I know, it's native code written to run under Android. Native code is always going to run faster than script like you said. Now if whoever wrote whatever app you're running under Java did it in a compiled, not interpreted mode, it'd most likely run smoothly without any problems.

That being said, ever intel atom machine I've personally had any experience with (several lenovo netbooks, and a few home-built atom pc's) have always 'felt' slow. I don't ever expect much from that platform, so I've not ever been really disappointed with performance. For what they are designed for I felt they ran at an acceptable speed. I've not tried 8 on anything less than a dual-core i7 (my laptop, in emulation actually), or my desktop at home (8 core AMD FX), so I couldn't comment on the actual speed of a Win8 Atom-based install (Win7 performance on Atom was way too degraded in my experience though).
 

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phailyoor

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And this is Windows 8's fault? As far as say cut the rope, it's not java based on my phone as far as I know, it's native code written to run under Android. Native code is always going to run faster than script like you said. Now if whoever wrote whatever app you're running under Java did it in a compiled, not interpreted mode, it'd most likely run smoothly without any problems.
It's Microsoft's fault for delusionally pushing Javascript as a first rate platform. If Javascript wasn't an option, then stupid devs wouldn't write apps in it. As it is now, ALL of the stock "apps" are written in crappy javascript, and many of the store apps too.
 

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heffe2001

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Wow, just, wow, lol. That's some mighty strange logic, it's Microsoft's fault that a 3rd party company wrote a game in Javascript? The could have written that in any language they chose, but they chose Java (probably for ease of portability between devices would be my guess).

Also, what specific tablet are you using, I think someone asked that before but didn't get an answer. Is it a single-core or double-core Atom? How much memory, storage type, etc?
 

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phailyoor

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It's Microsoft's problem for PROMOTING the idea of writing apps in javascript. It's also Microsoft's problem for writing 1st party apps in javascript.

Ms claims that Javascript is equal to other RT platforms. MS is advertising JS to developers more than the other languages. MS is giving devs incentives to create JS apps.

There is also the undeniable FACT that Javascript is ALWAYS slower than managed/native code. Even if a machine can run the code fast enough, it will ALWAYS USE MORE BATTERY.

If the idiots at MS had any sense to care about battery life, like they claim to, then they would at least discourage JS apps, like in iOS/Android, making Managed/Native apps the recommended option.

P.S.
Javascript != Java. They're are only related in name.
Javascript is an interpreted language
Java is managed code
please look up what those terms mean before making any more posts
 

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cluberti

Cat herder
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That's some pretty big jumps there - javascript using more battery life and atom being equal to ARM. As a hardware guy as part of my living, I'm not sure you quite understand how things differ between the Intel platform (CISC) and ARM (RISC) when it comes to battery life or performance.

Once you start throwing out the name calling, I pretty much stopped reading. Sorry.
 

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phailyoor

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Alright. You're right that atom and arm are VERY different. I'm just saying that the overall compute performance is somewhat similar, though I may be wrong. Javascript taking more battery is a FACT though.
 

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heffe2001

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I know exactly what the difference is between Java and Javascript, my whole point was you can't really blame Microsoft for the performance of a game written by a 3rd party on a sub-par CPU.

You've still not mentioned what device you're running on. If it's a branded atom tablet (not some Chinese knock off brand), then odds are it's running some sort of IGA (intel most likely), which fall under the minimum specs for tablets (Directx 10 graphics device with WDDM 1.2 or higher), which is most likely the source of your problems, not the fact that of what the game was written in.

I do get what your trying to say, but maybe the title should be Windows 7 Worse on MY Tablet, because your tablet != all tablets. Not everyone is going to have the same problems you are, especially those that are running (or will be running) hardware designed to run Windows 8.
 

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phailyoor

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Javascript taking more battery is a FACT. You can't deny it.

It doesn't matter if you're running an overclocked i7 or a knockoff netbook. Javascript will ALWAYS take more power. If you can provide even the tiniest evidence otherwise, I will shut up and accept your point.

MS is telling devs to use Javascript. MS is paying devs to use javascript. MS is providing more docs/support/etc. to devs who use javascript. You think you can't blame MS for other devs using Javascript?

There's also the fact that the stock apps use javascript. They run smoothly enough, but it's a FACT that they're throwing processor cycles, and therefore valuable battery life right down the drain.

P.S.
I've used 8 on:
Acer W500[amd c-50]
Custom[c2q q9400]
Custom[i5 2500]
HP G62[amd p340]
 

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phailyoor

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I do get what your trying to say, but maybe the title should be Windows 7 Worse on MY Tablet, because your tablet != all tablets. Not everyone is going to have the same problems you are, especially those that are running (or will be running) hardware designed to run Windows 8.

Um-only one issue is related to my hardware[performance]. All of the other issues listed are present on anything with a multitouch touchscreen...
 

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