Windows 8 uncertainty blamed for decline in PC sales

or the first time in five years, PC shipments over the holiday shopping season were lower than the year before - and IDC is blaming Windows 8.

The research firm says that a hoped-for boost to sales from the new operating system failed to materialize, contributing to fourth quarter sales down by 6.4 percent, 4.5 percent in the US.

"Although the third quarter was focused on the clearing of Windows 7 inventory, preliminary research indicates the clearance did not significantly boost the uptake of Windows 8 systems in Q4," says Jay Chou, senior research analyst with IDC's Worldwide Quarterly PC Tracker.

Source

A Guy

 

[Ray8]

I'm not actually sure why I'm doing this, but I suspect that you're trying to get me so riled up that I make a fatal error and end up in the banned bin. That said, if it looks like a tablet, then it's a tablet. What it can do is another thing, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a tablet as far as nomenclature is concerned.

A car is a car; the engineering configuration is ostensibly identical, only the design can vary. What it's designed to do and what it is capable of doing is a completely different issue.

A shoe is a shoe, the anatomical requirements are fundamentally similar, though the design can vary wildly. A shoe is primarily designed to enclose, protect and support the foot, but it's specific purpose and functionality can vary from fashion statement to safety component, with varying degrees of success (often depending on taste or design).

Let's compare the Surface Pro to shoes, that should be fun.

 

[Tepid]

So, we tend to put things in one box, and regardless of if they should be categorized differently based on further criteria? Then what.

as far as getting anyone riled up,
I am not trying to do anything of the sort, my points are quite clear and concise. I don't generalize in such confined categories and then base my decision on that one category (tablets in this case), There is not one general category, they can not all be looked at the same and then make such broad sweeping statements as, "No one would pay 800+ dollars for a tablet", yes they would if the features are there to warrant it.

And you know, people have paid $1000 for PS3's and Xbox when they first released, so...... why not?

 

[Ray8]

You certainly are an avid champion for the Microsoft Surface Pro tablet. It's almost as if you had a vested interest in the product. The average pundit might be led to accuse you of being a shill for Microsoft. Not accusing you of such, but just saying.

 

[A Guy]

I'll interject. A certain form factor is referred to as a tablet. The performance and capability of each tablet can, and will vary dramatically. If a manufacturer prefers to call it by another name, people may well continue to refer to it as a tablet because it fits the form factor. The surface still maintains the form factor referred to as a tablet. A Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford Fiesta are both automobiles, even if they are not comparable. A Guy

 

[Coke Robot]

I'll interject. A certain form factor is referred to as a tablet. The performance and capability of each tablet can, and will vary dramatically. If a manufacturer prefers to call it by another name, people may well continue to refer to it as a tablet because it fits the form factor. The surface still maintains the form factor referred to as a tablet. A Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford Fiesta are both automobiles, even if they are not comparable. A Guy

Those are all cars, but different types of car; sports/super car and economical respectively. A Surface Pro tablet PC and a desktop PC. Two different things, but still a PC.

 

[A Guy]

I'll interject. A certain form factor is referred to as a tablet. The performance and capability of each tablet can, and will vary dramatically. If a manufacturer prefers to call it by another name, people may well continue to refer to it as a tablet because it fits the form factor. The surface still maintains the form factor referred to as a tablet. A Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford Fiesta are both automobiles, even if they are not comparable. A Guy

Those are all cars, but different types of car; sports/super car and economical respectively. A Surface Pro tablet PC and a desktop PC. Two different things, but still a PC.

I'm missing your point? You are agreeing with me? Even if you want to call it a tablet PC it is still a tablet, right?

I think some are taking tablet as a derogative term. They think, "An iPad is a tablet, and it can't do anything I want to do, so calling this new device a tablet, when it runs full windows apps, etc. is an insult". We're talking about the form factor, not the capabilities. A Guy

 

[Coke Robot]

I'll interject. A certain form factor is referred to as a tablet. The performance and capability of each tablet can, and will vary dramatically. If a manufacturer prefers to call it by another name, people may well continue to refer to it as a tablet because it fits the form factor. The surface still maintains the form factor referred to as a tablet. A Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford Fiesta are both automobiles, even if they are not comparable. A Guy

Those are all cars, but different types of car; sports/super car and economical respectively. A Surface Pro tablet PC and a desktop PC. Two different things, but still a PC.

I'm missing your point? You are agreeing with me? Even if you want to call it a tablet PC it is still a tablet, right?

I think some are taking tablet as a derogative term. They think, "An iPad is a tablet, and it can't do anything I want to do, so calling this new device a tablet, when it runs full windows apps, etc. is an insult". We're talking about the form factor, not the capabilities. A Guy

The point I'm trying to make is that I see a flaw with your car metaphor. Yes, those two are still cars, but they're different in different respects. But I call a tablet PC a tablet PC, because the PC part is what makes that device better than the others. Yes, physically, tablets are mostly the same with obvious hardware differences. Software wise, that's where the differences are PLENTIFUL. That's where the distinction comes in and partly what Microsoft is redefining as the definition of a tablet, it shouldn't be running an impotent OS.

Personally, I think the term phablet is more derogatory towards the ipad and android based tablets. They are literally based off a smartphone's operating system, blown up to size, and sold to the masses. I've never wanted my phone to be bigger and not make phone calls and can't fit in my pocket. Phablet should be the term for the ipad and android tablets, tablet PC should be used for Windows 8 powered devices. It's that PC part that makes the difference, like a laptop PC or desktop PC. Those two form factors can do many things software wise, as well as hardware wise, but you're not going to be calling a chromebook a laptop PC when it's not.

 

[Tepid]

We are talking about capabilities. that's the rub.
Form factor is fine, but when all you concider is form factor ONLY, that is where you make broad generlized mistakes in referring to what one would pay for something.

It's like the car, would you pay $120,000 for a ford fiesta? Well Maybe,, let's rephrase,, would you pay $120,000 for a Stock Ford Fiesta
Ahh and there is the rub again. I had to define the automobile even further to phrase the question/statement properly. Otherwise....

"People would not pay $120,000+ for a car. Is there anything wrong with that?"

Yes, there is, define what i am getting for that money.....

and let me add, that if we were talking about Linux, which we very easily could,, maybe, I would be saying the same things in regards to it if it provided the same types of possibilities in what you can do with it. This isn't about just Windows 8 or Surface.

note: BTW A Guy, you are right, we side stepped the form factor part of the discussion. But, the term Tablet has been redefined as an iPad or Android. It can be easily studied by asking people to describe a tablet in one word, would they say PC or Computer? Some yes, many, no.

Tablet PC might be a better term to use. The industry and (and maybe people like us) will have to make that distinction.
And that, there is nothing wrong with.

 

[labeeman]

Personally, I think the term phablet is more derogatory towards the ipad and android based tablets. They are literally based off a smartphone's operating system, blown up to size, and sold to the masses. I've never wanted my phone to be bigger and not make phone calls and can't fit in my pocket. Phablet should be the term for the ipad and android tablets, tablet PC should be used for Windows 8 powered devices. It's that PC part that makes the difference, like a laptop PC or desktop PC. Those two form factors can do many things software wise, as well as hardware wise, but you're not going to be calling a chromebook a laptop PC when it's not.

Then why should I like Windows 8 when it turns my desktop it into giant 23" Windows 8 phone UI?

 

[Coke Robot]

Personally, I think the term phablet is more derogatory towards the ipad and android based tablets. They are literally based off a smartphone's operating system, blown up to size, and sold to the masses. I've never wanted my phone to be bigger and not make phone calls and can't fit in my pocket. Phablet should be the term for the ipad and android tablets, tablet PC should be used for Windows 8 powered devices. It's that PC part that makes the difference, like a laptop PC or desktop PC. Those two form factors can do many things software wise, as well as hardware wise, but you're not going to be calling a chromebook a laptop PC when it's not.

Then why should I like Windows 8 when it turns my desktop it into giant 23" Windows 8 phone UI?

This looks an awful lot like this?


If we were to think in that line of thought...


Why is a Desktop UI on smartphones?

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

So, we tend to put things in one box, and regardless of if they should be categorized differently based on further criteria? Then what.

as far as getting anyone riled up,
I am not trying to do anything of the sort, my points are quite clear and concise. I don't generalize in such confined categories and then base my decision on that one category (tablets in this case), There is not one general category, they can not all be looked at the same and then make such broad sweeping statements as, "No one would pay 800+ dollars for a tablet", yes they would if the features are there to warrant it.

And you know, people have paid $1000 for PS3's and Xbox when they first released, so...... why not?

Tepid? I believe you are in error of what Ray8 is trying to get across to you. Let me make it simple for you to
understand. I'll use aspirins in this example: Now lets take a Bayer tablet -vs- a Tylenol tablet. I am sure you know of Tylenols sordid past. BUT that said, Tylenol would be a better choice over a Bayer tablet for the simple reason it does what you want it to do, and unlike Bayer Tablet it won't give you a surprise that would cause you discomfort, in this scenario a upset stomach due to it being an actual aspirin, while Tylenol contains no aspirin, and you won't get an uncomfortable reaction in your stomach. So going by this example Ray8 is a 100% correct in his initial argument. Don't believe it still? Google "Microsoft Internet Appliances".

 

[Coke Robot]

So, we tend to put things in one box, and regardless of if they should be categorized differently based on further criteria? Then what.

as far as getting anyone riled up,
I am not trying to do anything of the sort, my points are quite clear and concise. I don't generalize in such confined categories and then base my decision on that one category (tablets in this case), There is not one general category, they can not all be looked at the same and then make such broad sweeping statements as, "No one would pay 800+ dollars for a tablet", yes they would if the features are there to warrant it.

And you know, people have paid $1000 for PS3's and Xbox when they first released, so...... why not?

Tepid? I believe you are in error of what Ray8 is trying to get across to you. Let me make it simple for you to
understand. I'll use aspirins in this example: Now lets take a Bayer tablet -vs- a Tylenol tablet. I am sure you know of Tylenols sordid past. BUT that said, Tylenol would be a better choice over a Bayer tablet for the simple reason it does what you want it to do, and unlike Bayer Tablet it won't give you a surprise that would cause you discomfort, in this scenario a upset stomach due to it being an actual aspirin, while Tylenol contains no aspirin, and you won't get an uncomfortable reaction in your stomach. So going by this example Ray8 is a 100% correct in his initial argument. Don't believe it still? Google "Microsoft Internet Appliances".

What if you take low dose aspirin?...

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

LoL CokeRobot then you are asking to JUST go back to DOS?

 

[Ray8]

Another reason why the Surface Pro and other tablets running Windows 8 are tablets is, if you do nothing to the interface, you ostensibly are confronted with the same interface as you are with Windows RT. Both have the same form-factor, both have attachable keyboards etc. Both have the ability to run Office (of one description or another). From a short distance, you couldn't distinguish an RT tablet from an 8 tablet. Microsoft has clearly stated that they are after the tablet market, Windows RT is one angle of attack and Windows 8 is another.

 

[Tepid]

I am not confused, or wrong.

You are throwing everything in one box and referring to it as that pile there.

It's disingenuous.

You can not have a proper discussion on such narrow definitions and be honest about what you are talking about or options you are getting.a

And again Ray, I am' sorry, but you are wrong. Just because granny drives a Ferrari at 30MPH doesn't make it an eco car.

Definition and distinction is a huge factor in all of these discussions.

A duck is a Duck till you start wanting a specific one. Mallard or Orange Bill? No, neither of those, just a duck.... do you see how futile of an argument that is? Who in their right mind is going to deal with someone like that.

"Here you go sir, it's a duck," But it's dead, oh, sorry,. all you said was you wanted a duck.

 

[labeeman]

Another reason why the Surface Pro and other tablets running Windows 8 are tablets is, if you do nothing to the interface, you ostensibly are confronted with the same interface as you are with Windows RT. Both have the same form-factor, both have attachable keyboards etc. Both have the ability to run Office (of one description or another). From a short distance, you couldn't distinguish an RT tablet from an 8 tablet. Microsoft has clearly stated that they are after the tablet market, Windows RT is one angle of attack and Windows 8 is another.

Both have a price that will not compete with the current market.

 

[A Guy]

Lol, again, they are all tablets, just some are better then others. A Guy

 

[Dave76]

The analogies are not explaining what's trying to be said, IMO, a simple one is the PC, desktop or laptop.
You can't say no desktop/laptop is worth more than $500.
If you want or need an i7 CPU, high level discrete graphics, minimum 128GB SSD and 1TB HDD, large screen, etc. you will have to pay more.
You can buy a desktop/laptop that will surf the internet, run Office, graphics programs, and most other apps for $500, but not as well/fast as a $1,000 desktop/laptop would.
Some people won't ever notice the difference and therefore only require a $500 desktop/laptop, others just want a faster machine or actually need one.

Same with a tablet, better specs that will fulfill your wants/needs will cost more and many will pay for the higher performance/abilities.
Some may find a $500 tablet that does everything they need and consider a $800 tablet a complete waste of money. Which may be true for them and not true for others.
We all have the choice to spend our money they way we feel is best, it doesn't make anyone else wrong.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Bravo Dave76 well said.

 

[jimbo45]

I am not confused, or wrong.

You are throwing everything in one box and referring to it as that pile there.

It's disingenuous.

You can not have a proper discussion on such narrow definitions and be honest about what you are talking about or options you are getting.a

And again Ray, I am' sorry, but you are wrong. Just because granny drives a Ferrari at 30MPH doesn't make it an eco car.

Definition and distinction is a huge factor in all of these discussions.

A duck is a Duck till you start wanting a specific one. Mallard or Orange Bill? No, neither of those, just a duck.... do you see how futile of an argument that is? Who in their right mind is going to deal with someone like that.

"Here you go sir, it's a duck," But it's dead, oh, sorry,. all you said was you wanted a duck.

Hi there
I think you are totally WRONG about Ferrari's -- an Eco product doesn't have to perform like a wobbly bicycle with square wheels and look as if it's designed by a load of so called "Tree Huggers" who haven't seen a tablet of soap or a tub of hot water for months.

Ferrari's (and BMW's for that matter) are probably more ECO friendly than a lot of vehicles out there currently. BMW and Ferrari gasoline engines are around the cleanest on the planet at the moment and BOTH these companies are leaders in "Alternative fuels" such as Hydrogen, Biomass, and Clean Methane (although a greenhouse gas it can be burned extremely efficiently and its products of combustion cleaned up relatively simply).

Penn Researchers and Colleagues Create a Cheaper, Cleaner, More Efficient Catalyst for Burning Methane | Penn News

Another point about the Ferrari company -- a lot of parts are still made and shaped by HUMANS - and in this day and age where even your local supermarket is getting rid of "Human checkouts" and replacing them with those ghastly self service "scanning devices" Ferrari still employs a lot of HUMAN trade craftsmen - and these days every country needs JOBS.

I wouldn't pick on Ferrari as part of "The evil empire" even though I could never affords one. Not only the craftsmen are excellent but the numbers Ferrari train too helps the economy -- even though not too many make it into the actual Ferrari factory itself. Those craftsmen who don't get a job with Ferrari itself are highly valued as well and don't have trouble finding other jobs.

Anyway back to the point : However if a tablet has a load of external ports and a keyboard + mouse / touchpad it's a PC in any way you cut it.

I think your Duck analogy is better like this

"If it looks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck and Waddles like a Duck --- Then it's a DUCK".

Cheers
jimbo