Windows 8 uncertainty blamed for decline in PC sales

or the first time in five years, PC shipments over the holiday shopping season were lower than the year before - and IDC is blaming Windows 8.

The research firm says that a hoped-for boost to sales from the new operating system failed to materialize, contributing to fourth quarter sales down by 6.4 percent, 4.5 percent in the US.

"Although the third quarter was focused on the clearing of Windows 7 inventory, preliminary research indicates the clearance did not significantly boost the uptake of Windows 8 systems in Q4," says Jay Chou, senior research analyst with IDC's Worldwide Quarterly PC Tracker.

Source

A Guy

 

[BillWindows]

You two need to get a room - it's getting old!

It does seem that way, Bill 'Gates' Windows agin a wee Aussie battler. There we were, three against a thousand, up to our arm pits in beer cans and by God those three gave us hell.

Okay now you're going to make me cry

 

[Ray8]

You two need to get a room - it's getting old!

It does seem that way, Bill 'Gates' Windows agin a wee Aussie battler. There we were, three against a thousand, up to our arm pits in beer cans and by God those three gave us hell.

Okay now you're going to make me cry

This is for you Bill: And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda ~ John Williamson - YouTube.

 

[Dark Rider]

I don't know how I missed this thread. Oh well. So on page 12 of this thread we have people mentioning the OEM's are trying to ramp up hardware to meet Microsofts requirements. Microsoft are blaming the OEM's for the loss of sales. If you really want to know whats going on just read Microsofts own document called Windows Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems found here: Windows Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems

It reads as a roadmap for How to alienate and estrange your OEM partners. Pay attention to all the things marked Mandatory. OEM's are struggling to implement all these ideas, many of them very new such as the UEFI requirements. Code is buggy as hell and hasn't been tested for these new things properly with large numbers of people on different systems in real world applications. Both Microsoft and the OEM's are at fault. Microsoft for forcing their partners to measure up to very high almost unrealistic expectations and OEM's for agreeing to do this work when they were not ready for it.

Consumers have been spoiled over the years by having PC you can do anything you wish with. Now, in the case of Windows 8 ARM tablets and the problems people are having with UEFI on non ARM systems people are finding they cannot use their PC as they were once able to. This info is spreading like wildfire across the net and consumers are listening. Consumers are mad as hell and are choosing to buy systems that assure they will have complete control over how they use the system (hardware). Hopefully both Microsoft and OEM's will learn hard lessons and adjust accordingly so we wont have such problems with the next release of Windows.

 

[jimbo45]

I don't know how I missed this thread. Oh well. So on page 12 of this thread we have people mentioning the OEM's are trying to ramp up hardware to meet Microsofts requirements. Microsoft are blaming the OEM's for the loss of sales. If you really want to know whats going on just read Microsofts own document called Windows Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems found here: Windows Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems

It reads as a roadmap for How to alienate and estrange your OEM partners. Pay attention to all the things marked Mandatory. OEM's are struggling to implement all these ideas, many of them very new such as the UEFI requirements. Code is buggy as hell and hasn't been tested for these new things properly with large numbers of people on different systems in real world applications. Both Microsoft and the OEM's are at fault. Microsoft for forcing their partners to measure up to very high almost unrealistic expectations and OEM's for agreeing to do this work when they were not ready for it.

Consumers have been spoiled over the years by having PC you can do anything you wish with. Now, in the case of Windows 8 ARM tablets and the problems people are having with UEFI on non ARM systems people are finding they cannot use their PC as they were once able to. This info is spreading like wildfire across the net and consumers are listening. Consumers are mad as hell and are choosing to buy systems that assure they will have complete control over how they use the system (hardware). Hopefully both Microsoft and OEM's will learn hard lessons and adjust accordingly so we wont have such problems with the next release of Windows.

Hi there
not sure what sort of "Consumers" you are talking about.
Most people I know just want a "Computer" that does most of the "usual suspects" -- surf, social networking, email office maybe, multi-media, and printing.

They really couldn't be bothered even if it were running "Micky Mouse" OS -- they want essentially a "Turnkey" (although to some windows is a Turkey) system that just works.

Whatever detractors there are of windows out there - I'll bet that no other OS exists where on the whole you can just simply plug any sort of hardware in to it - possibly with a manufacturers disk - but increasingly these days Windows can just search the net and find a driver- and it just works.

Linux is fine bit in general it's not (and wasn't designed for that purpose) a straight OOBE. Just browse any Linux forum and there's all sorts of complex code out there for making devices work -- your average joe is never going to "Compile a kernel" in a million years.

If PC's are not selling it's absolutely 100% NOTHING TO DO WITH WINDOWS / UEFI or whatever. There are other devices out there making for some people the whole use of a PC redundant, and those that already have PC's probably have quite decent hardware so why do they need to buy another one.

In fact if you look at some posts on this very Forum many people have got very successfully old PENTIUM IV computers (and some even older ones) running W8 very efficiently -- probably running W8 better than the old XP / W2K systems they originally had on those computers - especially if fitted with an SSD. (You can get an SSD to connect to an IDE device - simply use SATA ==>IDE connector and connect to MOBO).

I've myself retired 2 workstation type computers (now running purely as servers one a W2K3 server and the other a Linux SUSE one) and can't see myself back into the PC market anytime soon -- and this is NOTHING to do with windows (any version).

I really don't understand where some of these stats come from -- not that useless GARTNER agency again. The reason for PC sales decline is OBVIOUS. -- Just tell me any market which has reached saturation point where new sales are anything like the initial flurry. The upgrade / replacement market is tiny usually compared with the initial growth period and how businesses fail to recognize that is just beyond me.

To many grads doing "Business studies" out of books rather than going out and analysing what's happening in the REAL MARKET.

Cheers

jimbo

 

[Tepid]

I don't know how I missed this thread. Oh well. So on page 12 of this thread we have people mentioning the OEM's are trying to ramp up hardware to meet Microsofts requirements. Microsoft are blaming the OEM's for the loss of sales. If you really want to know whats going on just read Microsofts own document called Windows Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems found here: Windows Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems

It reads as a roadmap for How to alienate and estrange your OEM partners. Pay attention to all the things marked Mandatory. OEM's are struggling to implement all these ideas, many of them very new such as the UEFI requirements. Code is buggy as hell and hasn't been tested for these new things properly with large numbers of people on different systems in real world applications. Both Microsoft and the OEM's are at fault. Microsoft for forcing their partners to measure up to very high almost unrealistic expectations and OEM's for agreeing to do this work when they were not ready for it.

Consumers have been spoiled over the years by having PC you can do anything you wish with. Now, in the case of Windows 8 ARM tablets and the problems people are having with UEFI on non ARM systems people are finding they cannot use their PC as they were once able to. This info is spreading like wildfire across the net and consumers are listening. Consumers are mad as hell and are choosing to buy systems that assure they will have complete control over how they use the system (hardware). Hopefully both Microsoft and OEM's will learn hard lessons and adjust accordingly so we wont have such problems with the next release of Windows.

So, you are saying, then, that, no other vendors have hardware requirements in place to run their OS?
Such as, Apple? I can guarantee you (without going and looking) all the exact verbiage, or extremely close, is in their own docs.
Not to mention ChromeOS, Android, BlackBerry, Palm, Calculators, Motorola, etc etc etc etc.

If UEFI is having that many problems on BRAND NEW hardware, it will be found out and figured out and worked out.

If it is on older Hardware, where UEFI is supported, but BIOS as well, well, you are just on your own to figure it out
and quite possibly, MAybe the manufacturers didn't follow certain guidelines exactly, You know, like a million programmers did through XP days and their stuff stopped working when Loop Holes they weren't supposed to be using were closed up in Vista and 7.

 

[Dark Rider]

You guys are missing the point. There is a very large number of Windows users that also dual boot Linux and other operating systems. It is those people who do want PC's that they can run other operating systems on and they are putting a dent in sales of systems that come preinstalled with Windows 8. This is where Surface tablets ( ARM systems that must adhere to Windows Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems and cannot dual boot at all) and UEFI problems fails them. Just spend some time looking over the forums of non Microsoft operating systems. Tons of people are pissed about this and refuse to buy a preinstalled Windows 8 system. Many organizations like the Free Software Foundation advocate this to their many thousands of members. They tell them of these things and to not buy Windows machines. This post for example Free Software Foundation recommendations for free operating system distributions considering Secure Boot — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software and this one Update on the effort to defeat Restricted Boot — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software where "48 organizations and over 37,000 people" have signed the Stand up for your Freedom to install Free Software - Stand up for your freedom to install free software — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software. Using Linux is no longer a novelty. it's mainstream and people want the ability to have choices with their hardware. Granted sales of systems like I Phones that effectively replace the PC play a part, users of other operating systems play their fair share too. With ARM tablets and UEFI problems people cant dual or triple boot like that have been used to doing for years. All this adds up to lost sales.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi Dark rider
I think it's YOU who is missing the point -- those Linux users etc are NOT the typical "Normal users" and are in fact quite a small (and decreasing) subset of the whole gamut of PC users.

These people anyway are more knowledgeable of computers in general and aren't likely to allow a "challenging OS" to put them off their purchases. Many of them are also hobbyists and probably relish the challenge in any case and a lot design and custom build their own rigs.

What some people don't seem to realize is that the ENTIRE market for PC's as we know them (and for similar products from our favourite "Fruit company too") is for all sorts of reasons --NOT RELATED TO THE OS is declining.

Even people like me can go for days at a time not even LOOKING at a PC -- a lot of non work stuff I need to do doesn't require the use of a full blown PC anymore -- I can even copy and Print a lot of stuff without even having the computer switched on -- just print directly to a network printer from your phone for example.

It's no use flogging a dead horse -- W8 will be OK -- W9 will be better and W7 will continue for a while probably becoming the "XP" equivalent in today's world.

In 5 years time for example who KNOWS what sort of devices we might be using then.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[labeeman]

Windows 8 ended January with a market share just behind that of Mac OS X 10.8

Windows 8 ekes out 2.2 percent market share | Microsoft - CNET News

 

[elbmek]

Why fall out over what is a no issue? Everybody sees things differently. I would imagine most of you understand a lot more than me, but I know a lot more on other things than you, so whats the problem. Slagging people off is counterproductive, it gets peoples backs up and, later, when help is required, they are ignored or blocked. I like win 8, my daughter (who shares my pc) does not. Once customised, its a breeze. We dont argue about it though. Come on, live and LET LIVE.

 

[BillWindows]

Windows 8 ended January with a market share just behind that of Mac OS X 10.8

Windows 8 ekes out 2.2 percent market share | Microsoft - CNET News

Just a few weeks and its already starting to outpace OSX, just imagine if the world economy was better.

 

[Dark Rider]

Hi Dark rider
I think it's YOU who is missing the point -- those Linux users etc are NOT the typical "Normal users" and are in fact quite a small (and decreasing) subset of the whole gamut of PC users.

Care to qualify this with some facts? I don't think you can. You don't sound like a Linux/Windows user who is talking from experience. More and more dual boot users find them using Linux more than Windows ( except perhaps in the area of AAA games made for PC) ( and there Are tons of good games that run on Linux including many AAA games either through OpenGL or Wine/Play on Linux and similar tools running Direct X) Linux is much faster and more configurable than Windows - even without using terminal commands. Linux has made it easy now to do these things, so more "normal users as you put it can do these advanced things. The idea that these users are declining, is not factual I believe - I don't know where you got that notion. Look at all the hundreds of distros and their growing popularity with Windows users (and Mac)

These people anyway are more knowledgeable of computers in general and aren't likely to allow a "challenging OS" to put them off their purchases. Many of them are also hobbyists and probably relish the challenge in any case and a lot design and custom build their own rigs.

I am one of these users. Linux is not challenging or for hobbyists. That's the old Linux and does not apply anymore. It's simply different and once you learn your way around it can be as easy as any Windows version if not easier. Even for a "normal" Windows user who only wants to do mundane things with the OS like browsing the web, using email Linux can be more appealing than Windows. Here is one of these normal Windows users not a Linux power user who choose Linux over Windows in an experiment conducted by her son. This is her trying Linux - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-PTQVeCF9k This is her trying Windows 8 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ujmDrcKWo8

Did you know Surface tablets with Windows 8 RT are locked down so you cant dual boot with them at all? Did you know all PC's that come preinstalled with Windows 8 on non ARM systems has UEFI and Secure Boot enabled? Even if you disable Secure Boot and have UEFI compatibility built into to your non Microsoft operating system, UEFI is so buggy that most of the time you still cannot dual boot properly. No matter how savvy a Linux user is, they cannot do anything about this until UEFI itself grows up and the firmware industry gets the bugs out. I really think your underestimating the numbers of dual boot users out there who are now shunning preinstalled Windows 8 machines due to these issues.

What some people don't seem to realize is that the ENTIRE market for PC's as we know them (and for similar products from our favourite "Fruit company too") is for all sorts of reasons --NOT RELATED TO THE OS is declining.

Even people like me can go for days at a time not even LOOKING at a PC -- a lot of non work stuff I need to do doesn't require the use of a full blown PC anymore -- I can even copy and Print a lot of stuff without even having the computer switched on -- just print directly to a network printer from your phone for example.

I realize this and in fact agreed with you that this does also play a part in the decline of PC sales. Why lug a laptop around when you can do almost everything you want to do with a smart phone? Although for many people like me, I would rather the PC laptop for more power and flexibility ( I use it mostly for games I can't play on a smart phone) . I don't own a smart phone because paying for an extra service and having a scaled down laptop I don't need. It's a waste of money for me - and I can still make PC to phone phone calls from my laptop if i need to.
[/QUOTE]

 

[labeeman]

Windows 8 ended January with a market share just behind that of Mac OS X 10.8

Windows 8 ekes out 2.2 percent market share | Microsoft - CNET News

Just a few weeks and its already starting to outpace OSX, just imagine if the world economy was better.

With M$ upping the price the economy needs to get much better than it is now.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

BillWindows said: I think I see the problem here Ray, you're way smarter than all the people on this forum, that's why nobody understands you. It's as if you're from the Planet Kryptonite or something.

BILL!! It was the planet Krypton!! and kryptonite weaken Superman...for SHAME Bill!!!!

 

[Ray8]

I wonder if Bill is actually as old as he makes out to be?

 

[BillWindows]

Windows 8 ended January with a market share just behind that of Mac OS X 10.8

Windows 8 ekes out 2.2 percent market share | Microsoft - CNET News

Just a few weeks and its already starting to outpace OSX, just imagine if the world economy was better.

With M$ upping the price the economy needs to get much better than it is now.

That price has nothing to do with computer sales, just people upgrading their OS. The price of computers isn't going up, just the cost of upgrading.

If anybody has missed out, too bad, I don't feel sorry for them they've had ample time to take advantage of the crazy $40 price. The people who don't want to make the move are the same people who wouldn't take the jump from XP in my opinion.

I'm already regretting not getting 5 licences instead of just the 4, but the poor old Netbook will just have to ride it out with XP until next year, I don't use it that much anymore anyway.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Disposable Junk

Linux is fine bit in general it's not (and wasn't designed for that purpose) a straight OOBE. Just browse any Linux forum and there's all sorts of complex code out there for making devices work -- your average joe is never going to "Compile a kernel" in a million years.

The "Average Joe" doesn't have to compile a kernel (that is expert work).
How many people build their own Windows kernels?

It's actually rare to have to compile anything (unless that "floats your boat").

Linux Mint 14 MATE ran all of my hardware straight out of the box.

If PC's are not selling it's absolutely 100% NOTHING TO DO WITH WINDOWS / UEFI or whatever. There are other devices out there making for some people the whole use of a PC redundant, and those that already have PC's probably have quite decent hardware so why do they need to buy another one.

In fact if you look at some posts on this very Forum many people have got very successfully old PENTIUM IV computers (and some even older ones) running W8 very efficiently -- probably running W8 better than the old XP / W2K systems they originally had on those computers - especially if fitted with an SSD. (You can get an SSD to connect to an IDE device - simply use SATA ==>IDE connector and connect to MOBO).

I've myself retired 2 workstation type computers (now running purely as servers one a W2K3 server and the other a Linux SUSE one) and can't see myself back into the PC market anytime soon -- and this is NOTHING to do with windows (any version).

It seems that the "most OEMs sell junk" school of thought is correct.

Lenovo Proves Sky Isn't Falling by Shipping Record Number of PCs
Lenovo Proves Sky Isn't Falling by Shipping Record Number of PCs | Maximum PC

What you actually seem to be saying is that Phones and Tablets are just disposable junk.
They have to be replaced every few months (unlike desktops and laptops).

For that reason (from a business perspective) the disposable junk market is a more profitable sector.

I really don't understand where some of these stats come from -- not that useless GARTNER agency again. The reason for PC sales decline is OBVIOUS. -- Just tell me any market which has reached saturation point where new sales are anything like the initial flurry. The upgrade / replacement market is tiny usually compared with the initial growth period and how businesses fail to recognize that is just beyond me.

Greed is the reason.

To many grads doing "Business studies" out of books rather than going out and analysing what's happening in the REAL MARKET.

Agreed.
"Young know-nothing Turks" straight out of university.

I used to see the same thing when I worked as an electronic repair tech.
Most of the electronic engineers didn't actually know anything about "real world" electronics.
They would produce circuits that couldn't possibly work and when you built them (as you had been ordered to) they didn't work.

 

[BillWindows]

.

BillWindows said: I think I see the problem here Ray, you're way smarter than all the people on this forum, that's why nobody understands you. It's as if you're from the Planet Kryptonite or something.


BILL!! It was the planet Krypton!! and kryptonite weaken Superman...for SHAME Bill!!!!

Well it has been a while since I listened to Superman on the mantel radio, does that answer your question Ray.

 

[R0bR]

Did you know Surface tablets with Windows 8 RT are locked down so you cant dual boot with them at all? Did you know all PC's that come preinstalled with Windows 8 on non ARM systems has UEFI and Secure Boot enabled? Even if you disable Secure Boot and have UEFI compatibility built into to your non Microsoft operating system, UEFI is so buggy that most of the time you still cannot dual boot properly.

Did you know that a majority of the worlds consumer population don't care? People have been preaching Linux for ages and how it was going to take over desktops and it hasn't. Even OSX in it's young existence and available on expensive hardware has more market share than Linux. If your average consumer wants Linux they'll buy a laptop or desktop running Linux, they're not going to get into dual booting scenarios. Lastly, you realize that the Surface RT is a Microsoft tablet? I'd argue that they have every right to only allow RT to run on THEIR hardware.

 

[Dark Rider]

Did you know that a majority of the worlds consumer population don't care? People have been preaching Linux for ages and how it was going to take over desktops and it hasn't. Even OSX in it's young existence and available on expensive hardware has more market share than Linux. If your average consumer wants Linux they'll buy a laptop or desktop running Linux, they're not going to get into dual booting scenarios. Lastly, you realize that the Surface RT is a Microsoft tablet? I'd argue that they have every right to only allow RT to run on THEIR hardware.

Who cares about the majority. We are talking about hundreds of thousands of Windows/Linux users that do put a dent in sales. Just making the case a percentage of lost sales come from these people disenchanted with Microsoft's new systems.

ER.. no.. the people who use Linux most are former Mac and Windows users. A small percentage of them were only always Linux users. It is the Mac and Windows users that get exposed to Linux and decide to try it. If the become comfortable enough then they might buy a desktop with Linux on it but they most of the time were always a Windows or Mac user first. Don't belive me, just go into any large Linux conference and ask to see a show of hands of how many Linux users started off on Windows or mac. At least 3/4th of all the hands will go up.

Personally I agree that in the case of Surface tablets that Microsoft has the right to lock out the ability for users to install other operating systems since both the hardware and software is Microsoft's. This is the same as you cannot install a new operating system for your TV, On Star navigation system or Microwave. Still this is the source of angst for many people because tablets like PC's have traditionally had the ability for a user to install other operating systems and that too accounts for lost sales of new systems. It's also fair to say a percentage of PC sales are lost to Apple. Like I said, it all adds up.

 

[labeeman]

Microsoft may be waking up. LOL

Microsoft Admits That ?Some? Users Are Disappointed with Windows 8 - Softpedia