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Windows 8 really isn't that bad

pparks1

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Overall, after using the RTM for 3 days, I'll go out on a limb and say that Windows 8 isn't all that bad. It's not a horrific release by any means. It's Windows, people will figure it out, it's performance IS good and it appears to be stable. I wouldn't lump Windows 8 into the same bin as ME or Vista....it's far better performing and less flawed than either of those 2 OS's were. And for dual monitor use, they have made some really nice improvements in Windows 8.

However, I think the bigger concern really boils down to whether people want the changes that accompany the release. And I truly believe that these items really can be a "make it or break it" factor, especially since some of the choices are quite limited or simply non-existent. And I can completely understand, if based on these factors, people say that Windows 8 is awful. For them, it might be, and no amount of convincing is likely going to change their mind.

So, when am I going to get Windows 8 onto my main rig? Well, it's unlikely to happen until I buy another computer. And here are my reasons for this choice;

1). The themes and lack of Aero really make it look drab and plain. Especially on the desktop, where I will do most of my work. The interfaces for the Metro apps are far flashier and fancy, but I don't really plan to use them. Why can't my desktop look nice too?

2). Metro for me on a desktop, is just not needed. It doesn't help me in any way. I have 16 apps pinned to my taskbar in Windows 7 and that covers 98% of what I do day to day. I have about 6 other shortcuts on my desktop for things that I don't do regularly, but don't want to hunt down in a menu). The rest can sit in the menu for all I care, I don't load a bunch to my machines anyway. My work laptop which I use the most, and load the most stuff too, only has about 60 Program Folders and that's counting the bog standard Windows groups like Accessories, etc.

3). the software that I have already purchased works on Windows 7. Things that I prefer to use slightly older versions of, like Acronis True Image. So, by not buying Windows 8 at the present time, i don't have to upgrade any of these older tools.

4). Performance improvements haven't been really noticed much. I'm on quad cores, with plenty of RAM and my desktop and laptop both have SSD's...so they aren't really struggling in the performance arena with Windows 7.

5). I don't like to "upgrade" anything. I would load from scratch. Windows 7 is not broken, working great and is already paid for. I just don't feel compelled to load the OS, reset up my apps, and get various applications like Sony Vegas Movie Studio, Handbrake, etc reconfigured with my personal settings.

6). Running full screen metro apps just isn't all that appealing. I very much like having lots of screen real-estate on large monitors, or a few displays and would rather be able to resize windows and place them whereever I choose.


So, there you have it. Windows 8 works just fine and dandy. But for somebody who thinks that life without "aero" is just drab and boring, having to deal with the Start screen is just an extra step, misses the start button, but has launched IE accidentally many times, and is not disappointed in hardly any way with Windows 7....there really isn't much incentive. Sure, in a few areas it might perform better and make me happy, but it will always have the Start screen and the boring look and feel to the desktop and will lack a built-in start button and that will annoy me always. It's still a better choice for me to stay put.
 

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Coke Robot

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So, would you go out on a limb and to say if someone new to Windows 8, they will get used to it and even perhaps like it?

And I must say, WOW. :shock:
 

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pparks1

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So, would you go out on a limb and to say if someone new to Windows 8, they will get used to it and even perhaps like it?
Getting used to it (by learning how to use it), sure, most people will given time.

Getting used to it (dealing with drab and boring, tolerating the Start screen because you have to, and not having a start button), seems like settling. If these are the complaints people have, I'm unsure if they will ever get used to it...at least not to a point where they say, "well, i finally understand and I like this better". It might happen to some, and may not to others.


If a person were to buy a new PC and it came with 8, I wouldn't say "you must immediately remove that piece of garbage". On the flip side, if somebody came up and said, "should I upgrade to Windows 8, is it worth it"...it wouldn't be a resounding yes from me.
 

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jimbo45

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Hi there
as I posted elsewhere I'm beginning to get "Converted" to it.

Since I've TOTALLY re-arranged the start tiles into what for me in groups of how I work (favourites / most used) etc and got away from thinking like how I would use the old classical start menu where applications with their sub applications were grouped in APPLICATION groups I find it's actually QUICKER for me now.

I still haven't yet got to totally 100% of how I want to do it but I'm nearly there.

Rules basically: 1) -- BE TOTALLY RUTHLESS with the number of tiles you have on the start menu -- for instance I've got rid of ALL the supplied ones's - I don't need live tiles for weather, news, Photos (have my own app for that - photoshop), travel details in timbuctoo or wherever, XBOX etc -- I can do all this much more conveniently on a smart phone which is where these apps belong anyway (or possibly a tablet).

I've replaced the Invasive IE on the start menu with the "Bog standard" IE so I can click it on the start menu if I'm in the start menu screen - and I'll get the normal IE rather than the metro full screen version.

2) delink things like PDF reader, Music, etc from the default metro app to your own applications - say foxit reader or whatever.

3) arrange your tiles by convenience -- for example I often use EXCEL and NOTEPAD together so having them in the same group much more convenient than having to get EXCEL out of OFFICE and NOTEPAD out of ACCESSORIES. - I don't want too many apps on the taskbar either - I just have EXCEL, OUTLOOK, IE and the snipping tool.

4) after installing apps say like Visual Studio - remove all the zillions of sub entries - you can create a FOLDER BTW and put this in a metro tile so you can click on that and it will expand the list (see my screenshot -- I've got this for Photoshop). Also if you install say the whole office suite but rarely use PUBLISHER or ACCESS for example don't pin those to the start -- you can still access them via the Search apps menu.

There are still issues I have -for example I'd like the Text name for my groups to be customisable-- Bold, Colour, Font etc

I'd like also to be able to change the desktop background colour of each of my groups and for us older guys I'd like to have larger text possible in the Metro tile itself.

Otherwise I don't think this is anything like as bad as I first thought -- I really thought what a load of the brown stuff but with a bit of work it actually makes a lot of sense.

However the big concern I find with this is -- I've spent a bit of time on it -- it's not at all a straight OOBE thing -- some people WILL get confused when they install something and their first remark I'm sure will be along the lines of "WTF is this".

Some serious documentation, tools, and customisable facilities needs to be made available.

The non Aero Desktop background doesn't really bother me a lot -- when I'm working with things like Photoshop the best background to have anyway is a light grey -- which I know a lot of youngsters will find boring -- but it's 100% correct for getting PROFESSIONAL quality correctly colour renderings for pre-press - especially when you are using CMYK colour modelling and profiles.

Anyway so far so good. Enc screenshot of my current layout.

cheers
jimbo
 

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Coke Robot

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:doh:

That's what I've been saying for almost a year......you just use it.... :thumbsup:
 

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DanRex

Skilled Troublemaker
Member
xD Yeah... W8 has some good features... But I'm one of those who doesn't have Twitter, Facebook etc. and will not make a account in a while... Yes, you can ignore the social media thing in W8, like many other features. I'm not sure if I should make the move... :think:What do you guys think? If I'll move; that'll mean ALOT of customization... :)
 

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Arpan

The Boy Who Lived
Power User
Hi Jimbo, I am glad you made sense out of W8, at last.

There are loads of people out there who, hopefully, are just like Jimbo. They too will understand the concept pretty soon.

Lets agree on this: Microsoft knows business and they must have thought something before and during designing this OS for three years. They aren't that dumb, are they?

People like Cokie, I and many others understood that much earlier, others will hopefully understand that sooner than later.

Just be patient and use the OS before judging it, Microsoft has thought a thing or two before delivering this to you!!
 

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jimbo45

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xD Yeah... W8 has some good features... But I'm one of those who doesn't have Twitter, Facebook etc. and will not make a account in a while... Yes, you can ignore the social media thing in W8, like many other features. I'm not sure if I should make the move... :think:What do you guys think? If I'll move; that'll mean ALOT of customization... :)


The speed etc is quite good compared with earlier versions of Windows - From what my experiences are so far I'd plan your upgrade rather like a "Militiary Operation". This saves a lot of the trial and error way I've been using.

1) Get a spreadsheet and group the PROGRAMS (not the APPLICATIONS) you regularly use the most and see if you can get these into at the most 7 or 8. (By Programs -- imagine you were using the Classic Start menu and choose the final entry you click (doesn't matter if it's the first, 2nd / third etc. in the hierarchy) to start the program you want.

They don't have to be even in the same set of applications - as in my example in my previous post in this thread I use EXCEL and NOTEPAD a lot so I've grouped these together.

2) This is a bugbear of W8 and this I think is where Ms needs to do some work to help people sort out what happens here. - Install your applications -- these can bring up loads and loads of tiles. - Now UNPIN ALL the tiles that you don't have an entry in spreadsheet created in step 1).

3) group the remaining tiles into your desired groups and name them

4) Now good to go. Remember you can add FOLDERS to the start menu (like I've shown) too. Any application whether on the start screen or not can be found in the application SEARCH from the application search charms bar and can be re-pinned to the start screen again if you want.

As I said - where I think Ms has made a bit of a boo-boo here is in the amount of work required to get this into a useable shape for primarily DESKTOP / LAPTOP users. It's a bit of work - but if your start screen is customized properly you should be able to start your work QUICKER than going through the traditional START MENU.

I didn't believe this at first because I was still thinking -- We've lost the hierarchical menu structure -- but in fact we don't really work that way at all -- present the basic applications in one place and Bingo.

What was seriously lacking here was a total lack of documentation explaining to people how to organize their work and of course the metro tiles and screens could do with a bit of "De-Uglification".

Give it a go -- once you get the principle it's not so horrible.

Remember also for stuff you are using nearly all the time - you can pin to the taskbar. Don't clutter this up too much though.

If you must have stuff pinned to the desktop you can do that too == but I like an uncluttered desktop with just the Recycle bin on it.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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DanRex

Skilled Troublemaker
Member
xD Yeah... W8 has some good features... But I'm one of those who doesn't have Twitter, Facebook etc. and will not make a account in a while... Yes, you can ignore the social media thing in W8, like many other features. I'm not sure if I should make the move... :think:What do you guys think? If I'll move; that'll mean ALOT of customization... :)


The speed etc is quite good compared with earlier versions of Windows - From what my experiences are so far I'd plan your upgrade rather like a "Militiary Operation". This saves a lot of the trial and error way I've been using.

1) Get a spreadsheet and group the PROGRAMS (not the APPLICATIONS) you regularly use the most and see if you can get these into at the most 7 or 8. (By Programs -- imagine you were using the Classic Start menu and choose the final entry you click (doesn't matter if it's the first, 2nd / third etc. in the hierarchy) to start the program you want.

They don't have to be even in the same set of applications - as in my example in my previous post in this thread I use EXCEL and NOTEPAD a lot so I've grouped these together.

2) This is a bugbear of W8 and this I think is where Ms needs to do some work to help people sort out what happens here. - Install your applications -- these can bring up loads and loads of tiles. - Now UNPIN ALL the tiles that you don't have an entry in spreadsheet created in step 1).

3) group the remaining tiles into your desired groups and name them

4) Now good to go. Remember you can add FOLDERS to the start menu (like I've shown) too. Any application whether on the start screen or not can be found in the application SEARCH from the application search charms bar and can be re-pinned to the start screen again if you want.

As I said - where I think Ms has made a bit of a boo-boo here is in the amount of work required to get this into a useable shape for primarily DESKTOP / LAPTOP users. It's a bit of work - but if your start screen is customized properly you should be able to start your work QUICKER than going through the traditional START MENU.

I didn't believe this at first because I was still thinking -- We've lost the hierarchical menu structure -- but in fact we don't really work that way at all -- present the basic applications in one place and Bingo.

What was seriously lacking here was a total lack of documentation explaining to people how to organize their work and of course the metro tiles and screens could do with a bit of "De-Uglification".

Give it a go -- once you get the principle it's not so horrible.

Remember also for stuff you are using nearly all the time - you can pin to the taskbar. Don't clutter this up too much though.

If you must have stuff pinned to the desktop you can do that too == but I like an uncluttered desktop with just the Recycle bin on it.

Cheers
jimbo
Now you are one of a lifesaver! :cool: Haha, seriously; yes! After that little guide you made (yes, little... Mwahahahahaaa) I think I'm ready for a move! :) Thanks man! :)
 

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jeffrys

Power User
Power User
Well, I am one of the guys that always have liked Win8, no mather what version.

So I will not go back to whatever one can think off.

As for not needing the Metro, this is personal Pparks1. Nice for you, but as I stated here before, I need to click OFTEN 4-5 times to get the Excel Docu that I want (do not use Word).

Now while in Metro, I only have to use 1 click to get where I wanna be.

So yes, I need Metro.

Jeff
 

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pparks1

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Rules basically: 1) -- BE TOTALLY RUTHLESS with the number of tiles you have on the start menu -- for instance I've got rid of ALL the supplied ones's - I don't need live tiles for weather, news, Photos (have my own app for that - photoshop), travel details in timbuctoo or wherever, XBOX etc -- I can do all this much more conveniently on a smart phone which is where these apps belong anyway (or possibly a tablet).

I've replaced the Invasive IE on the start menu with the "Bog standard" IE so I can click it on the start menu if I'm in the start menu screen - and I'll get the normal IE rather than the metro full screen version.

2) delink things like PDF reader, Music, etc from the default metro app to your own applications - say foxit reader or whatever.

3) arrange your tiles by convenience -- for example I often use EXCEL and NOTEPAD together so having them in the same group much more convenient than having to get EXCEL out of OFFICE and NOTEPAD out of ACCESSORIES. - I don't want too many apps on the taskbar either - I just have EXCEL, OUTLOOK, IE and the snipping tool.

4) after installing apps say like Visual Studio - remove all the zillions of sub entries - you can create a FOLDER BTW and put this in a metro tile so you can click on that and it will expand the list (see my screenshot -- I've got this for Photoshop). Also if you install say the whole office suite but rarely use PUBLISHER or ACCESS for example don't pin those to the start -- you can still access them via the Search apps menu.

There are still issues I have -for example I'd like the Text name for my groups to be customisable-- Bold, Colour, Font etc

I'd like also to be able to change the desktop background colour of each of my groups and for us older guys I'd like to have larger text possible in the Metro tile itself.

Otherwise I don't think this is anything like as bad as I first thought -- I really thought what a load of the brown stuff but with a bit of work it actually makes a lot of sense.

#1) That seems like quite a bit of work to get it working for you
#2) What is the big advantage to you that makes putting in this effort worthwhile? (is it simply a desire to be on the newest thing or something different?)

The non Aero Desktop background doesn't really bother me a lot -- when I'm working with things like Photoshop the best background to have anyway is a light grey -- which I know a lot of youngsters will find boring -- but it's 100% correct for getting PROFESSIONAL quality correctly colour renderings for pre-press - especially when you are using CMYK colour modelling and profiles.
Yeah, I don't do anything for pre-press, I don't even use Photoshop.
 

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pparks1

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As for not needing the Metro, this is personal Pparks1. Nice for you, but as I stated here before, I need to click OFTEN 4-5 times to get the Excel Docu that I want (do not use Word).

Now while in Metro, I only have to use 1 click to get where I wanna be.

So yes, I need Metro.

Jeff

Jeff, I totally agree with you. It's personal. That was the entire point of my thread. It's not a horrible OS, it's not a bad performer. It's stable and it's going to be very cost friendly versus old versions of Windows.

Whether or not it's for you, IS going to come down to some simple UI experiences and preferences. Some people prefer 1 way and some people prefer another. I think many of us just wish we could pick the option that works best for us...that would be the primary complaint.

For you, you don't like to click 4-5 times to launch a spreadsheet...and that's totally fine. For me, the way I find my spreadsheets is to click Windows explorer, find my file and double click it. I work from many different computers at my office, and even in my home and everything for me is stored on a file server. Navigating out to the share is the way that I do it. So, we just do things differently and that's fine. And based on the way that I prefer doing it, Metro and Windows 8 just doesn't help me.


Just out of curiosity, with your 1 click opening of your excel file..do you have the actual .xlsx file pinned to the Start menu? I'm trying to understand how you get into the file you want with only 1 click. If it is pinned to the Start Menu, I guess I could get a similar result with a shortcut on my desktop.
 

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The Muss

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I know how fast is win8. I'm wondering what kind of impact will OEM bloatware do to freshly installed copies of magnificent, brilliant windows 8 Pro
 

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Coke Robot

New Member
Pro User
Gold Member
Hi Jimbo, I am glad you made sense out of W8, at last.

There are loads of people out there who, hopefully, are just like Jimbo. They too will understand the concept pretty soon.

Lets agree on this: Microsoft knows business and they must have thought something before and during designing this OS for three years. They aren't that dumb, are they?

People like Cokie, I and many others understood that much earlier, others will hopefully understand that sooner than later.

Just be patient and use the OS before judging it, Microsoft has thought a thing or two before delivering this to you!!

It's almost as if people like jimbo have been enlightened... :D
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
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    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
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    Crosshair V Formula-Z
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    16 gig DDR3
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    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
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    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
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    Microsoft Touch Mouse
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    Internet Explorer 11
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    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014

jeffrys

Power User
Power User
Pparks1, I do not understand you:
"For you, you don't like to click 4-5 times to launch a spreadsheet...and that's totally fine. For me, the way I find my spreadsheets is to click Windows explorer, find my file and double click it"

Why do you double click, you should only click once.......

"Just out of curiosity, with your 1 click opening of your excel file..do you have the actual .xlsx file pinned to the Start menu? I'm trying to understand how you get into the file you want with only 1 click. If it is pinned to the Start Menu, I guess I could get a similar result with a shortcut on my desktop."

You can only have around 10 folders in your explorer to click on and that is not enough....

The same for my Excel Docs, not enough......

So for an Excel docu I need 2 clicks totally



Jeff
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    INTEL CORE I--3770K LGA1155
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V
    Memory
    KINGSTON 2400 MHZ KHX24C11K4 16GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    INTEL HD GRAFICS 4000
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    Philip BDL3245€ 32 inch
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    1920 x 1080
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    2 SAMSUNG 840 PRO RAID 0 ON BOARD 2 x 128 GB
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    LOGITEC MX™ 5500
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    Internet Speed
    120 Mbps

lehnerus2000

Power User
VIP Member
Power User

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
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    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
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    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
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    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
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    Tower
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    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,

Frank1

New Member
Power User
I wouldn't lump Windows 8 into the same bin as ME or Vista....it's far better performing and less flawed than either of those 2 OS's were. And for dual monitor use, they have made some really nice improvements in Windows 8.
.
I wouldn't either. I would put it in a bin below them as far as ease of use is concerned. Maybe there is something you see in 8 that I don't see. I didn't like Vista but I would choose it over 8. So, as far as using it on desktops or even lap tops, I respectfully disagree with you. But this is only my opinion and I have been known to be wrong.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion g7-120us Notebook
    Memory
    8 GIG

jeffrys

Power User
Power User
Yes Lechnerus on both questions

Jeff
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    INTEL CORE I--3770K LGA1155
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V
    Memory
    KINGSTON 2400 MHZ KHX24C11K4 16GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    INTEL HD GRAFICS 4000
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philip BDL3245€ 32 inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    2 SAMSUNG 840 PRO RAID 0 ON BOARD 2 x 128 GB
    Keyboard
    LOGITEC MX™ 5500
    Mouse
    LOGITEC MX 5500
    Internet Speed
    120 Mbps

jeffrys

Power User
Power User
I wouldn't lump Windows 8 into the same bin as ME or Vista....it's far better performing and less flawed than either of those 2 OS's were. And for dual monitor use, they have made some really nice improvements in Windows 8.
.
I wouldn't either. I would put it in a bin below them as far as ease of use is concerned. Maybe there is something you see in 8 that I don't see. I didn't like Vista but I would choose it over 8. So, as far as using it on desktops or even lap tops, I respectfully disagree with you. But this is only my opinion and I have been known to be wrong.

Frank.....you must be joking

Jeff
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    INTEL CORE I--3770K LGA1155
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V
    Memory
    KINGSTON 2400 MHZ KHX24C11K4 16GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    INTEL HD GRAFICS 4000
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philip BDL3245€ 32 inch
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    2 SAMSUNG 840 PRO RAID 0 ON BOARD 2 x 128 GB
    Keyboard
    LOGITEC MX™ 5500
    Mouse
    LOGITEC MX 5500
    Internet Speed
    120 Mbps

tseven

New Member
Power User
I don't think anyone thought it was bad. I personally didn't think it was bad but I didn't like the user-interface both in terms of usability and user-friendliness. I also questioned the aesthetics. I do like the faster performance and hopefully even better performance when it arrives. A lot of the complaints I have is that on a mouse and desktop environment it is not as easy to use. On the touch based environment I'm sure it's much better as I would use my fingers to navigate and swipe but on the mouse it's annoying to hover to get the menu and such. But I never thought windows 8 was bad infact I like that they decided to try something new with metro. It's more of the execution that is where they dind't do so great.
 

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