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Windows 8 Machine runs slowly

davidvkimball

Lumia Fanatic
Member
Hello EightForums,

I'm having strange issues where my computer just takes a long time to load things.

For example, I used to be able to run half a dozen programs (and four or five tray icons processes) just fine and everything would run smoothly. But now for some reason, running just two or three is causing huge performance issues. Microsoft Word 2013, Zune, Steam, CyberLink PowerDirector, Skype, Google Chrome, and all Adobe products.

You can check my system specs, but I recently wiped my hard drive and installed Windows 8 Pro fresh and I don't understand why this is happening now.

A contributing factor might be that I only have 235 GB left out of my 1 TB? But I don't feel like that should be doing it...

Anyway, let me know if you have any clues. I'll answer your questions.

Regards,

David
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Name
    David V. Kimball
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150
    Motherboard
    ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
    Memory
    CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX750TI-OC-2GD5 GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP
    Sound Card
    NVIDIA High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VG248QE Black 24" 144Hz 1ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD 3D and 20" 2009m HP Monitor
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 and 1600 x 900
    Hard Drives
    Intel 730 Series 2.5" 240GB SSD (OS + programs) WD Blue 1 TB HDD: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM (personal files)
    PSU
    Antec HCG M Series HCG-620M 620W ATX12V
    Case
    AZZA Solano 1000 Black Japanese SECC Steel/Metal mesh in front MicroATX/ATX/Full ATX
    Cooling
    Fans. Everywhere. (but they're surprisingly silent)
    Keyboard
    HP USB keyboard, 6 ft cable, Height: 1.1 inch, Width: 6.3 inches, Length: 17.3 inches
    Mouse
    HP USB mouse, 6 ft cable,
    Internet Speed
    36 Mbps download, 6 Mbps upload
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender + MalwareBytes
    Country Flag
    USA
    State/Region Flag
    us washington

Ztruker

Well-Known Member
VIP Member
Guru
Test memory and hard drive?

Specs indicate system should run very well, certainly not slow as you mention. Since you did a reinstall, that pretty much excludes the OS. That leaves hardware.

Download Memtest86+ (you want the 2nd one Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.zip)). Unzip it then create a CD from the iso file using your CD burning software. There is a good freeware burner called ImgBurn which will do this easily.

DO NOT burn the .iso file directly to CD. It must be used as input to a program that knows what to do with it, like the one I mentioned above.

You can do this on any computer that has a working CD Burner.

You can also use a Flash drive instead of a CD.

Download - Auto-installer for USB Key (Win 9x/2k/xp/7) *NEW!*.
Unzip and run Memtest86+ USB Installer.exe.
It will format the flash drive if you tell it to. I used a small, 16MB flash drive and it had 8.5GB left when done.

Boot the CD or Flash drive and run Memtest86+ for at least 3 complete passes unless it shows errors sooner than that. An overnight run is even better.

Check the hard drive with the manufacturer's diagnostic tools.
Hard Drive Diagnostics Tools and Utilities (Storage) - TACKtech Corp.
Bootable Hard Drive Diagnostics
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    [email protected]
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
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    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
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    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
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davidvkimball

Lumia Fanatic
Member
Hey Rich,

So I let Memtest86+ do three passes from a USB stick, and it didn't detect any errors. Then I downloaded the Western Digital Diagnostic tool for my hard drive, (WD Blue 1 TB Desktop Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64 MB Cache - WD10EZEX), and it didn't detect any errors, either.

Windows Startup is really fast. It's seconds, in fact. But opening programs is slow and stuff in explorer freezes a lot. I only have about four applications running in my system tray on average.

Let me know if there is anything else you suggest trying. Thanks again for the help!

Regards,

David
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Name
    David V. Kimball
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150
    Motherboard
    ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
    Memory
    CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX750TI-OC-2GD5 GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP
    Sound Card
    NVIDIA High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VG248QE Black 24" 144Hz 1ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD 3D and 20" 2009m HP Monitor
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 and 1600 x 900
    Hard Drives
    Intel 730 Series 2.5" 240GB SSD (OS + programs) WD Blue 1 TB HDD: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM (personal files)
    PSU
    Antec HCG M Series HCG-620M 620W ATX12V
    Case
    AZZA Solano 1000 Black Japanese SECC Steel/Metal mesh in front MicroATX/ATX/Full ATX
    Cooling
    Fans. Everywhere. (but they're surprisingly silent)
    Keyboard
    HP USB keyboard, 6 ft cable, Height: 1.1 inch, Width: 6.3 inches, Length: 17.3 inches
    Mouse
    HP USB mouse, 6 ft cable,
    Internet Speed
    36 Mbps download, 6 Mbps upload
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender + MalwareBytes
    Country Flag
    USA
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    us washington

Brooklyn567

New Member
Power User
Is your os 32 or 64 bit?

Is your harddrive 1 gigantic partition or split?

Try running your apps from safemode with networking and see if they load faster then...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 & Windows 7 Dual Boot
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP G60
    CPU
    AMD Turion RM-70 Dual Core 2.0 GHZ
    Memory
    3 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GeForce 8200M G
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Mouse
    MS Intellipoint 5 button (love it!)
    Browser
    Chrome and Chromium
    Antivirus
    Avast Free & Malwarebytes
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    us maryland

davidvkimball

Lumia Fanatic
Member
Brooklyn567,

1 partition, 64 bit OS.

Alright, thank you. I will!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Name
    David V. Kimball
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150
    Motherboard
    ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
    Memory
    CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX750TI-OC-2GD5 GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP
    Sound Card
    NVIDIA High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VG248QE Black 24" 144Hz 1ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD 3D and 20" 2009m HP Monitor
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 and 1600 x 900
    Hard Drives
    Intel 730 Series 2.5" 240GB SSD (OS + programs) WD Blue 1 TB HDD: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM (personal files)
    PSU
    Antec HCG M Series HCG-620M 620W ATX12V
    Case
    AZZA Solano 1000 Black Japanese SECC Steel/Metal mesh in front MicroATX/ATX/Full ATX
    Cooling
    Fans. Everywhere. (but they're surprisingly silent)
    Keyboard
    HP USB keyboard, 6 ft cable, Height: 1.1 inch, Width: 6.3 inches, Length: 17.3 inches
    Mouse
    HP USB mouse, 6 ft cable,
    Internet Speed
    36 Mbps download, 6 Mbps upload
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender + MalwareBytes
    Country Flag
    USA
    State/Region Flag
    us washington

Julian

New Member
Might sound somewhat far-fetched, but your hard drive might have a significant amount of (free)space fragmentation. Have you tried running a defrag pass? It also might be worth a shot to try a 3rd-party disk defragmenting tool, PerfectDisk has saved many "dead" PC's for me.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Professional x64
    Name
    Julian
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Build
    CPU
    Intel i7-2600k
    Motherboard
    ASUS Sabertooth P67 B3
    Memory
    G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3 2x4GB 1600MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX580DCUII
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    PSU
    Corsair TX850v2
    Occupation
    Microsoft Student Partner, Microsoft Active Profes
    Case
    Coolermaster HAF X
    Cooling
    Too much!
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 10
    Country Flag
    Spain
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    european union

Brooklyn567

New Member
Power User
Might sound somewhat far-fetched, but your hard drive might have a significant amount of (free)space fragmentation. Have you tried running a defrag pass? It also might be worth a shot to try a 3rd-party disk defragmenting tool, PerfectDisk has saved many "dead" PC's for me.


Not far fetched at all as his drive is over 75% full, good catch on the fragmentation..
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 & Windows 7 Dual Boot
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP G60
    CPU
    AMD Turion RM-70 Dual Core 2.0 GHZ
    Memory
    3 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GeForce 8200M G
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Mouse
    MS Intellipoint 5 button (love it!)
    Browser
    Chrome and Chromium
    Antivirus
    Avast Free & Malwarebytes
    Country Flag
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    us maryland

davidvkimball

Lumia Fanatic
Member
Might sound somewhat far-fetched, but your hard drive might have a significant amount of (free)space fragmentation. Have you tried running a defrag pass? It also might be worth a shot to try a 3rd-party disk defragmenting tool, PerfectDisk has saved many "dead" PC's for me.

I used PerfectDisk to defragment my harddrive, and after several days, it finished. But my computer is still hanging at the most random times. It has trouble opening Windows Explorer Windows, playing Zune stuff, opening Word documents, all things it NEVER had trouble doing before.

There's also random program freezes here and there that just didn't happen before.

Again, I really appreciate the help.

Cheers,

David
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Name
    David V. Kimball
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150
    Motherboard
    ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
    Memory
    CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX750TI-OC-2GD5 GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP
    Sound Card
    NVIDIA High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VG248QE Black 24" 144Hz 1ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD 3D and 20" 2009m HP Monitor
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 and 1600 x 900
    Hard Drives
    Intel 730 Series 2.5" 240GB SSD (OS + programs) WD Blue 1 TB HDD: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM (personal files)
    PSU
    Antec HCG M Series HCG-620M 620W ATX12V
    Case
    AZZA Solano 1000 Black Japanese SECC Steel/Metal mesh in front MicroATX/ATX/Full ATX
    Cooling
    Fans. Everywhere. (but they're surprisingly silent)
    Keyboard
    HP USB keyboard, 6 ft cable, Height: 1.1 inch, Width: 6.3 inches, Length: 17.3 inches
    Mouse
    HP USB mouse, 6 ft cable,
    Internet Speed
    36 Mbps download, 6 Mbps upload
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender + MalwareBytes
    Country Flag
    USA
    State/Region Flag
    us washington

Mustang

New Member
Member
I bought Windows 8 Pro OEM on DVD disk late last year from a retail computer shop. And started using it early this year on flagship.

I have a Corsair 125GB SATA3 SSD HD, top end Intel-Intel mobo/cpu, 30GB RAM, etc. And a second internal 125GB SSD HD for storage. The HD with the OS on it has 69GB free space. Plus a 1 TB eSATA HD and 2 external USB3 HDs ... all West Digital.

However, after a period of time the OS gradually became slower and slower. Did a fresh install and back to normal speed. A few months later the same thing happened, and a fresh install again fixed it. So now into the 3rd fresh install, and once again it is gradually becoming more and more sluggish.

Being SSD HD no defrag is necessary, and TRIM is turned on, with auto garbage collector built in to Corsair HD.

System restore is turned off, and various clean-up programs run after each session to clear temps and caches, etc. After finishing using IE10 also run: Safety --> Delete browsing history with everything ticked to be deleted. Mem test all OK. And finally, Glary Utilities used to clean registry, as well as a small exec called "Clear Event Viewer", etc, etc.

Also whenever the West Digital external USB3 storage HD is opened, or something is copied to it, it takes 5 seconds before anything happens ... every time. Once it's up and running it is very quick.

Every time I plug a standard 1TB spinner SATA HD into the external caddy, it says it needs to be checked for errors ... and always ends by saying it has no errors.

Also boot and shut down times have progressively become slower and slower.

Very annoying. It doesn't seem to have the same stability of Win 7. The only third party apps I'm using that affect the OS are StartIsBack with Modern and Charms turned off totally; and Win7 Games imported.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Built as DIY
    CPU
    6 core 12 thread & 4 core
    Motherboard
    Inel Extreme & Intel standard
    Memory
    12GB & 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    3 top end SLI linked & onboard
    Sound Card
    In built in graphics card & onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24 & 23 inch Samsung LED backlit
    Screen Resolution
    High def
    Hard Drives
    Corsair Force 128GB SATA3 SSDs in each machine. Plus several external USB3 and eSATA spinner HDs
    Country Flag
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    au west australia

CountMike

Well-Known Member
VIP Member
Guru
That thing about HDDs taking few seconds to respond is probably due to them being shut down because of power settings for them. They shut down after predetermined time. You can change that in Power Option section of Control Panel. Some of the other slowdowns could be attributed to the same cause because it takes some time for mechanical HDDs to become active and be readable and writable. There's no reason for SSDs to go to inactive mode, they use so little power.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Name
    Mike
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Occupation
    Retired
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
    Country Flag
    Serbia
    State/Region Flag
    ca ontario

davidvkimball

Lumia Fanatic
Member
What is the usual time for them to shut down? Any downside it them shutting down after, say, five hours?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Name
    David V. Kimball
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150
    Motherboard
    ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
    Memory
    CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX750TI-OC-2GD5 GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP
    Sound Card
    NVIDIA High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VG248QE Black 24" 144Hz 1ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD 3D and 20" 2009m HP Monitor
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 and 1600 x 900
    Hard Drives
    Intel 730 Series 2.5" 240GB SSD (OS + programs) WD Blue 1 TB HDD: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM (personal files)
    PSU
    Antec HCG M Series HCG-620M 620W ATX12V
    Case
    AZZA Solano 1000 Black Japanese SECC Steel/Metal mesh in front MicroATX/ATX/Full ATX
    Cooling
    Fans. Everywhere. (but they're surprisingly silent)
    Keyboard
    HP USB keyboard, 6 ft cable, Height: 1.1 inch, Width: 6.3 inches, Length: 17.3 inches
    Mouse
    HP USB mouse, 6 ft cable,
    Internet Speed
    36 Mbps download, 6 Mbps upload
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender + MalwareBytes
    Country Flag
    USA
    State/Region Flag
    us washington

CountMike

Well-Known Member
VIP Member
Guru
Well I'm one of the people that think that shutting down HDs on a desktop PC is not good for them. They do take a lot more of power during spin-up time and put a physical an thermal stress on them. There's also increase in "startup count" in S.M.A.R.T. and prediction of failure is less accurate. Now in laptops it makes sense to shut them down when running on battery but when running on AC power same applies as on always on PCs. My desktops run 24/7 and nothing except monitors ever gets shut down except for maintenance and I never lost an HDD due to it's wearing out.
I have seen (and have one of them) a WD HDD that was mouted in a security camera recorder for 3 strait yaers withot shutting down at all. When I got it the Spinnup count was just 10 And health and performance were 100%. 3years without shutting down and no discernible wear.
Power savings are minimal too, it makes more sense to turn system off when not in use or at least set to hibernate, as a processor, even in throttled down mode uses much more power than HDD.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Name
    Mike
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Occupation
    Retired
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
    Country Flag
    Serbia
    State/Region Flag
    ca ontario

davidvkimball

Lumia Fanatic
Member
Well I'm one of the people that think that shutting down HDs on a desktop PC is not good for them. They do take a lot more of power during spin-up time and put a physical an thermal stress on them. There's also increase in "startup count" in S.M.A.R.T. and prediction of failure is less accurate. Now in laptops it makes sense to shut them down when running on battery but when running on AC power same applies as on always on PCs. My desktops run 24/7 and nothing except monitors ever gets shut down except for maintenance and I never lost an HDD due to it's wearing out.
I have seen (and have one of them) a WD HDD that was mouted in a security camera recorder for 3 strait yaers withot shutting down at all. When I got it the Spinnup count was just 10 And health and performance were 100%. 3years without shutting down and no discernible wear.
Power savings are minimal too, it makes more sense to turn system off when not in use or at least set to hibernate, as a processor, even in throttled down mode uses much more power than HDD.

OK, thank you for the information. I just changed it so my Hard drive never shuts down. Previously it was at 20 minutes.

Will that help the speed of my computer? Or is there anything else you recommend?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Name
    David V. Kimball
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150
    Motherboard
    ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
    Memory
    CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX750TI-OC-2GD5 GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP
    Sound Card
    NVIDIA High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VG248QE Black 24" 144Hz 1ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD 3D and 20" 2009m HP Monitor
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 and 1600 x 900
    Hard Drives
    Intel 730 Series 2.5" 240GB SSD (OS + programs) WD Blue 1 TB HDD: 3.5 Inch, 7200 RPM (personal files)
    PSU
    Antec HCG M Series HCG-620M 620W ATX12V
    Case
    AZZA Solano 1000 Black Japanese SECC Steel/Metal mesh in front MicroATX/ATX/Full ATX
    Cooling
    Fans. Everywhere. (but they're surprisingly silent)
    Keyboard
    HP USB keyboard, 6 ft cable, Height: 1.1 inch, Width: 6.3 inches, Length: 17.3 inches
    Mouse
    HP USB mouse, 6 ft cable,
    Internet Speed
    36 Mbps download, 6 Mbps upload
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender + MalwareBytes
    Country Flag
    USA
    State/Region Flag
    us washington

Mustang

New Member
Member
That thing about HDDs taking few seconds to respond is probably due to them being shut down because of power settings for them. They shut down after predetermined time. You can change that in Power Option section of Control Panel. Some of the other slowdowns could be attributed to the same cause because it takes some time for mechanical HDDs to become active and be readable and writable. There's no reason for SSDs to go to inactive mode, they use so little power.
No that's not the problem. If it were, it would happen immediately following a fresh installation, because I use the same custom power settings every time I reload. In fact I use a virgin Acronis image for reload and the problems do not happen immediately, but progressively increase with use.

It's interesting to note that in the beta stages of W8 on my PC, when a file was copied to the SSD HD from the storage SSD HD by drag/dropping, it would get to the 99% stage instantly, then freeze for 20 seconds. So now it's down to 5 seconds. Actually sometimes for no apparent reason it will open instantly from both SSD and USB3 external HD. And that's what I meant when I said it isn't as stable as Win7. Other times it gives the error message one of the HDs in not recognized. Not a major thing but annoying.

CountMike said:
Well I'm one of the people that think that shutting down HDs on a desktop PC is not good for them. They do take a lot more of power during spin-up time and put a physical an thermal stress on them
Most modern solid state electronic components are very durable, but even so, have a finite life span.

However, there are two problems which are prevented by turning desktop PCs off at the mains.

  • Even though a PC is shut down, power is still flowing from the mains to the power box, which makes them vulnerable to power surges from electrical storms. Which is what happened to my PC when it was nuked, despite a surge protection power board. A modem connected to a land line also poses the same problem.


  • The electronic components run on a small voltage, and this is achieved by a step down transformer in the power box in the PC. After switching off a PC, the capacitors in the power box still remain charged, which reduces their life span. And this is the most vulnerable point of break down. If they go, full mains current can flow through to the low voltage components of mobo, CPU, etc ... zapping the whole machine.

If after turning off the machine, you then turn off the mains power to it, and then press the start button ... you will see the lights come on and the fans spin for a few seconds, powered by the residual current in the capacitors. I always do this after turning off mains power to empty them.

Electronic devices left on stand by will wear out quicker, but I guess it's equally true that modern devices still have a comparatively long life, and with the exponential rate of development of computers, it will probably become obsolete before wearing out.

My son and I and third party friend all bought the same modem at roughly the same time. They left theirs on 24/7. I turned mine off from the mains, and my PC, which are all powered from the same board. My son's modem went shortly after a year. My friends lasted about a year and half. Mine is still going after 6 years.

In addition my son left his expensive Sony laptop on 24/7 with an adaptor to the mains, and the adaptor burnt out ... not a biggie. However, his mother did the same thing and was not so lucky. The on-board graphics on her Sony burnt out necessitating the replacement of the mobo and the cost was prohibitive.

My very first ever Win98 PC also still works ... sometimes I turn it on for nostalgic reasons ...
just to be mesmerized watching it defrag! lol! :dinesh:
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Built as DIY
    CPU
    6 core 12 thread & 4 core
    Motherboard
    Inel Extreme & Intel standard
    Memory
    12GB & 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    3 top end SLI linked & onboard
    Sound Card
    In built in graphics card & onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24 & 23 inch Samsung LED backlit
    Screen Resolution
    High def
    Hard Drives
    Corsair Force 128GB SATA3 SSDs in each machine. Plus several external USB3 and eSATA spinner HDs
    Country Flag
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CountMike

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That's all true but there are a lot of compromises that have to be made to get things going to your satisfaction. Speed and power savings are on a bit of opposite sides. If you want a HDD to responds immediately, you can not make it shut down and than wake it up to do a little job and than all over again. It just puts more stress on it's mechanical and electronic parts and it's just better for it to run, nice and constant speed all the time. It gets waken up periodically by OS for maintenance and what not. Of course you can pack everything up in a nice dry place and it will last practically forever but that's not a point for having it in the first place. Actually even that is not exactly true. I pulled out an very old HDD that was sitting in a closet for few years and when I plugged it in, it took few tries just to spin up and start working. On the other hand, that WD750 GB green (known to be prone to fast wearing and prone to catastrophic failures when started) that I pulled out of security camera recording device after being on for at least 3 years, showed like new.
I know about the capacitors keeping their charge bit it doesn't mean it is working at that time, just the opposite, if it was in the circuit it would be discharged. Leaving desktop computer in stand by mode only gives you faster start up times and uses very little energy but the downside is that it leaves it prone to power surges etc. Only physically unplugging the power cord can save you from that, shutting it down usual way still leaves it vulnerable. Modern PSUs are surprisingly tough, I had a nearby lightning strike take out a modem, amplifier on the speaker and a landline phone but computer stayed running and unscathed. (thank you Chieftec )
AS you said the parts in the computer are good enough to stay running long time and baring "acts of God" or catastrophic failure will run out of their usefulness before braking down. I do have a few computers, crunching data all the time 24/7 and none had a failure due to parts wearing but noticed a long time ago that most of the failures are during the start or shutdown. If I had a penny for every time somebody told me that one day, they turned a perfectly good running computer off and next morning it just would not turn back on...... Actually, that is not completely true, I did make money for repairing them. They saved some money on electricity and I made some money, fair enough for me.
We could theorize about pros and con on both issues but in the end, it's only an issue of convenience and partly of safety.
When I leave for longer time I do unplug most of unneeded electrical stuff, but for normal use, everything that needs to run is left on.
 

My Computer

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    Bunch of backup HDDs.
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    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
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Mustang

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You have missed the point I am making. If a PC is turned off electronically with the shut down command, but the mains current is still feeding into the power box, the capacitors remain in a charged state, even though the PC is not running.

It's precisely because they are left in the charged state that they eventually wear out and fail a lot quicker than if they were left in the discharged state while the PC is not in use. At least that is what I was taught when completing my degree in electronic engineering.

That is why when someone is in the habit of turning their PC off at night ... but leaving the mains power on ... and then turning the PC back on the next day ... eventually it fails to start because the capacitors have reached the critical burn out point. I know because I have replaced burnt out capacitors in power boxes and restored them. But that was when price was a much more relevant issue. Today I just replace them.

I'd rather wait 10 or 20 seconds longer for a PC to boot up, than risk burning out the capacitors and possibly nuking the whole machine ... or at least wrecking the power box.

I have replaced mega power boxes in PCs I have repaired for people, and never once in my own PCs. And invariably they all say the same thing. They never turn the machine off at the wall socket but only with the shut down button. I mentioned two examples of this in my own family members with my son's laptop power adaptor burning out, and my wife's on-board graphics failing. People don't seem to understand that solid state electronic components do not last indefinitely.
 
Last edited:

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CountMike

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Good point there, if you are switching computer off, might as well do it all the way, Most PSUs have a switch behind that cuts off one or both leads before the input circuit. Like thet only a really massive power hit could do some damage. Of course if something just insist to do you a damage not much can stop it. Couple of years ago, a lightning fireball run into a neighbor's basement, hit an axe leaning against a wall and turned it blue but didn't hit a computer in there, if it did, there would be some real mess it being on or off, disconnected or not.
My point is that I do leave my computers on all the time and didn't loose any PSU, ever. Of course everything gets upgraded every few years anyway. This Chieftec of mine, on my main computer, have seen quite a few MBs etc and is 5 years old but being only 450w will have to be changed soon and will go on the next computer down the line.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Name
    Mike
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Occupation
    Retired
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
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    Firefox
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Mustang

New Member
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I have all my components ... PC, modem, printer, monitor, etc ... all plugged into the same surge protected power board. This can be isolated with a single open wire switch; which prevents current flow back to the PC through any ethernet cables, USB cables, etec.

However, as you say, if the power surge is large enough, it can jump open switches if the contacts are not far enough apart. The ultimate safety is to pull the power plug out of the mains socket at the wall.

However for practical purposes I just isolate the power board, which has the phone line going through it, with an open wire switch.

I guess it comes down to each individual's situation and preferences. If money is no object and someone is going to upgrade their equipment every few years, wear on the power box may not be a relevant issue. The real danger though is if the capacitor failure allows full mains voltage to flow through the PC components destroying everything. This wouldn't necessarily be a problem if money and time are not issues, and they have their data backed up to external media.

I have one person whose PC still has XP on it and I have serviced it for her for the past 8 years. She used to leave the power on from the mains 24/7 and eventually the power box stopped working after about 3 years. I replaced the power box, and since then she has switched it off at the wall when not in use; and the power box is still going strong. The only other component I needed to replace recently was the graphic card. The fan on it had become clogged with dust and caused the card to burn out through over heating. Simple fix.

This machine has survived 8 years of two daughters going from start to finish of their teenage years with concomitant web surfing, face book, etec, etec. And that's no mean feat.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM
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    6 core 12 thread & 4 core
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    Inel Extreme & Intel standard
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    12GB & 8GB
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    3 top end SLI linked & onboard
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    In built in graphics card & onboard
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    24 & 23 inch Samsung LED backlit
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    High def
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CountMike

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That's really some tough machine surviving 2 teenagers, those give me more work than anybody else. "Well kids were just playing with it and it went poof" is usual comment. Cant explain to them that those "just games" give computer more of the workout than running 10 office applications at once. Also the comments like "Do not need any strong computer, just for kiddies to play games" lol.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Name
    Mike
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Occupation
    Retired
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
    Country Flag
    Serbia
    State/Region Flag
    ca ontario

Mustang

New Member
Member
Good call. You really nailed it re pressure put on PC with games. Made me lol with: "It went poof!" and "Do not need any strong computer, just for kiddies to play games."

Truth is I've given up trying to educate, I just fix 'em. I do leave them with a maintenance sheet of regular tasks to keep the PC running smooth, but honestly, when I go back 95% of the time they haven't done them ... or done them when it's too late and the damage is done.

Another big problem cause is finding the heat sink over the CPU caked with a solid layer of compacted dust about 2 or 3 mm thick ... and they wonder why the thing keeps over heating and stopping ... or worse still has burnt out. :cry:

On the other hand I do feel sympathy for persons who have not had any previous experience with PCs. Even to use the help menus you need some sort of background training program to know what they mean ... I was totally baffled by them when I got my first PC. I remember typing a word document and hitting a wrong button and suddenly the text was 2 inches to the right ... and I had no idea what I had done. I rang a friend of my son who was a computer science graduate and even he couldn't work out what I'd done over the phone. Turned out to be I'd indented the text to the right. On the other hand I usually try and bullock my way through stuff and only read the operating manual when all else has failed! And sometimes that has dire consequences.

Anyway, nice chatting CountMike :)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Built as DIY
    CPU
    6 core 12 thread & 4 core
    Motherboard
    Inel Extreme & Intel standard
    Memory
    12GB & 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    3 top end SLI linked & onboard
    Sound Card
    In built in graphics card & onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24 & 23 inch Samsung LED backlit
    Screen Resolution
    High def
    Hard Drives
    Corsair Force 128GB SATA3 SSDs in each machine. Plus several external USB3 and eSATA spinner HDs
    Country Flag
    Australia
    State/Region Flag
    au west australia

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