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Windows 8 Client Hyper-v verses VMWare Workstation 9


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2
#1
Hi


I thought I would start a (impartial) discussion here as it would help me with it terms of how I might configure a new Windows 8 laptop.


Ok, VMWare Worstation 9 was released on the 23rd August. As a freelance consultant I want to configure Windows 8 Pro to run multiple server virtual farms (AD, SharePoint, exchange etc) . Since I want this to all be hosted on a reasonably high spec laptop so i7 > 16 GB DDR3 etc. I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on, or planning to evaluate this type of scenario, on either Client hyper-v or VMWorkstation 9



  • Performance
  • Battery drain -
  • Easy of creating snapshots of vm clones:ditto:
  • USB 3 support
  • Ease of setting up a virtual networks of one or more servers and also internet connectivity
  • testing metro apps in Windows 8 vms
  • ability to move the the VMs in to a cloud service and vica versa


Let the debate begin:thumb:

Daniel
 

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pparks1

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#2
Well, first and foremost, Hyper-V is going to be included for free, which VMWare Workstation 9.x currently is a $249.00 product.

I'm a VMWare user, but I use the enterprise products at work, am very familiar with how they work and have more of a need to keep things consistent. VMware has always been the better product for me as I often virtualize more Linux boxes than anything else and MS support of Linux clients as a VM has never been that good.

I have a license for VMWare Workstation 8.x, and am unsure yet if I will pony up the $119 for the upgrade. The feature set didn't seem like it was going to really be that advantageous for me. So, my experience on Workstation 9.x might continue to be lacking.

To me, it seems like you want to run MS apps, and you get Hyper-V for free. I would really start there and see if you have concerns. Then consider the cost and feature set of VMWare Workstation.
 

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Kebero

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#3
Having used both on a regular basis, I find that Hyper-V is going to be easier on the system resources as a type 1 hypervisor. Also, Hyper-V 3.0 really does dynamic memory well, providing for minimum, start up, and maximum memory values. If you are you going to run multiple guests constantly, I think this is the better choice (unless you need Linux guests). Also, it's free.

On the other hand, VMWare Workstation handles non-Microsoft operating systems with aplomb. Also, you have a much better visual experience (with Hyper-V, you have to use RDP for a good visual experience). VMWare also bad a proven record as an industry leader in client and server virtualization. On a client, VMWare Workstation is a wonderful experience. Hyper-V us just now becoming available on non-server systems, and it does not yet have all the features you'd expect for client-side virtualization (unity, resizing of the guest OS, etc).

On the other hand cloning and template creation in Hyper-V us just a matter of sysprep, then copy and paste. I usually sysprep a virtual server, then rename that VHD to xxx-template. I can then copy, paste, and rename to have an almost turn key solution.

Right now, I use Hyper-V 3.0 for all my testing.
 

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pparks1

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#4
I don't think he is talking about running a type 1 hypervisor. He's talking about the type-2 hypervisor type that is included in Windows 8 on the host.

VMware offers ESXi as a free type 1 hypervisor that is also much better on system resources.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    Self-Built in July 2009
    CPU
    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
    Memory
    8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
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    23" Acer x233H
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    1920x1080
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    Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
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    Corsair 620HX modular
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    Antec P182
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    ABS M1 Mechanical
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    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
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Kebero

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#5
I don't think he is talking about running a type 1 hypervisor. He's talking about the type-2 hypervisor type that is included in Windows 8 on the host.
Windows 8 (Pro/Ent) use Hyper-V 3.0, which is the same type 1 hypervisor used by Windows Server 2012.
 

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pparks1

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#6
Ok, I guess I gotta do some playing around with Hyper-V 3.0 then. I have read about it running as a type-1 hypervisor since I last posted.

So, if Windows 8 were to crash on the host, would the hypervisor keep running and servicing requests?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    Self-Built in July 2009
    CPU
    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
    Memory
    8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Acer x233H
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
    PSU
    Corsair 620HX modular
    Case
    Antec P182
    Cooling
    stock
    Keyboard
    ABS M1 Mechanical
    Mouse
    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
    Internet Speed
    15/2 cable modem
    Other Info
    Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.

Kebero

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#7
To be honest, I don't know, but I doubt it. Windows crashes can still halt the hardware. This holds true for the server products as well. Adding the Hyper-V feature to a Windows product (like adding Xen to openSUSE) changes the kernel some, but doesn't fully virtualise the parent OS. Hyper-V Server is a different matter.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express
 

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  • OS
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V
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    HP ProBook 4430s
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    Intel Core i3-2310M
    Memory
    16GB DDR3
    Hard Drives
    80GB Intel 320 SSD
    500GB Samsung Momentus
Posts
2
#8
Hi

Guys thanks for these really interesting comments. Looks like the type-1 Hypervisor that is supplied in Windows 8 Pro Hyper-V 3.0 will meet my needs. Thinks I will like is the memory managment and the ease of cloning instance VMs of Windows 2008R2 and also Windows 2012. Out of interest if my laptop supports touch screens I wonder if the (win 8) VMs can make use of this function?


As you rightly guessed my testing is all on the Windows .NET platform. I would like to spin off an Ubuntu vm for local WordPress testing but this really low on the priority list.

Daniel
 

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Hopachi

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#9
I would like to spin off an Ubuntu vm for local WordPress testing but this really low on the priority list.
Ubuntu will run on Hyper-V but only in windowed mode and without additions/tools to enhance the mouse speed, graphics, etc.
Since it's a test and low on the priority list, you can give it a try if you have the time or just let it be.

I don't know about usb 3.0 but i think only VMware has it for now. Metro apps can run in a vm, but the 1024x768 screen resolution as minimum still applies. Here is VMware WS 9 a step further since it's claimed they support fullscreen apps in Unity mode. Some apps also have animations which require graphics acceleration. You can always turn off the animations of the VM OS improve performance, and for the rest of the features, Hyper-V is good for the job.

Regards
Hopachi
 
Last edited:

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Kebero

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#10
Ubuntu will run on Hyper-V but only in windowed mode and without additions/tools to enhance the mouse speed, graphics, etc.
I'm pretty sure that Microsoft's guest additions for Unix will work (but I haven't tried it myself).
 

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    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V
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jimbo45

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#11
Hi there
don't forget that on a Windows 8 Host you can ONLY enable HYPER-V OR VMWORKSTATION - so unfortunately if you want to compare the advantages or otherwise of each then you will have to test them on separate hosts ( or Virtual machines)..

My problem with HYPER-V concerns the use of Virtual Network switches using a Wireless Network card. It can be made to work but it is fiddly.

It really depends on what you want your setup to do. I'd imagine for a Server Farm type of stuff you perhaps should be considering something like the FREE VMware ESXI -- these days the hardware requirements aren't that severe to run this - almost anything will do as a "White box" - apart from the NIC's -- it's fussy on what it will work with -- the Intel Pro Network adapters work fine (and aren't expensive).

Running a whole slew of virtual servers or machines on a standard desktop perhaps isn't the best if these vm's are for "Productive use". For testing it's fine of course.

I haven't as yet seen anything significantly worthwhile in VMware workstation 9 that would make this a "must have" upgrade unless you have USB3 ports which I do - but since I get this from work I'm going to have a real play with it so I can report back later.

If you use the Unity mode then Full screen support is nice but I need to do more testing. USB3 support is nice too -- more and more computers will be equipped with these so this will become important in future.

For Virtualising essentially MS OS'es probably HYPER-V if it can be made to work well in your environment will save you oodles of money so it might be worth while having a go with this. For Non MS OS'es I'd probably stick with VMware.

I'm not sure either if HYPER-V VM's can support USB3 -- For Virtual servers this might not be important but for virtualising client desktops etc this could be a feature that mightnmake you lean towards VMware solutions.

Note that a W8 VM running under VMware workstation can ITSELF have HYPER-V running - but I havn't tried to create another VM on top of the running VM -- performance I suspect would be an issue here although it could be used as a Proof of Concept (POC) machine.

So "You pays your money (or not) and makes your choice".

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Kebero

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#12
My problem with HYPER-V concerns the use of Virtual Network switches using a Wireless Network card. It can be made to work but it is fiddly.
This was an issue with Hyper-V 2.0 (you had to bridge/share/or use RAAS in order to use wifi). It's not a problem with Hyper-V 3.0, which is found on Windows 8 and Server 2012. You can bind an external virtual network to a wireless NIC directly from the Hyper-V virtual network settings.
 

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  • OS
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V
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jimbo45

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#13
My problem with HYPER-V concerns the use of Virtual Network switches using a Wireless Network card. It can be made to work but it is fiddly.
This was an issue with Hyper-V 2.0 (you had to bridge/share/or use RAAS in order to use wifi). It's not a problem with Hyper-V 3.0, which is found on Windows 8 and Server 2012. You can bind an external virtual network to a wireless NIC directly from the Hyper-V virtual network settings.

Hi there

Thanks for the info - appreciate that

It's really p----ng down with rain today in Brussels (Typical European "Summer"!) so while I'm stuck indoors in a hotel waiting to watch Liverpool V Man City playing Soccer in one of my favourite bars this afternoon I'll have a play with this -- I've got two laptops around and a really SOOPER DOOPER fast Internet so I should be able to set up a "mini lab" and have a play.

The Wifi issue was why I stopped testing before -- appreciate the info.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Kebero

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#14
I'm currently sitting through the leading edge of a tropical storm, so I know all about rain, lol. I've used Hyper-V a lot because I was able to get a license for Windows Server 2008 R2 via my Dreamspark account, whereas I would have had to pay for VMware (although I have used VMware Player at previous jobs and VMware Workstation in class). Now that I've installed the final build of WIN8 PRO, I figured I may as well keep using Hyper-V (although I have signed up for a VCP course that starts in October).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    HP ProBook 4430s
    CPU
    Intel Core i3-2310M
    Memory
    16GB DDR3
    Hard Drives
    80GB Intel 320 SSD
    500GB Samsung Momentus