Windows 8 - a return to the stone age?

[Mark Phelps]

The "Windows" comments are cute, but ignore the fact that Windows is filled with Windows, even in full-screen mode. Every button, every icon, every link, every textbox is a window...

That is blatantly untrue. I did real "windows programming" for a while, and those items (buttons, icons, links, menus) are NOT windows. The "window" is the "container" that holds a set of those items. The "window" is what you drag around the screen, open and close, and resize.

 

[Mark Phelps]

I don't know what you would consider the "stone age" in computing terms, but BEFORE MS Windows came out, I was a Tech Lead at a Fortune 500 company and, at that time, we bought the new portable PCs (which would today be called laptops) and ran an interface known as Framework on it. It allowed "windows" of sorts.

We were so impressed with it, that we used Framework to create "frames" on the screen, display text in those frames, resize the frames, and move them around.

Even back then, we could have more than one "frame" on the screen at the same time!

 

[Mystere]

Are you saying that grub configures itself into the BCD menu? I've never heard of that... That's kind of weird.

 

[kmint]

I am only sick of the flat non-Aero thing. I miss it more each day.

But for the rest, once Start8 came out and you learn the tricks to ignore Metro, it is like W7. Just FLATTTTT. Suffocatingly flat and visually back to the stone age.

 

[gazz9496]

Hardly warrants a reply. Sure you can do it that way. All I can say is: Klunk, klunk, klunk! And what about three or four open at same time? Or five or six. Lets see a video of that, uh?

there in lies the problem with metro, you can have 2 open but no more, add dual screen to that and as a poster pointed out on another thread the metro disapears everytime you use that screen making the live tiles somewhat pointless.

all in all metro is a failed interface that while suitable for tablets/phones/laptops is again not suitable for desktops, i'm typing this from a dual monitor setup and have multiple apps open across both screens so i can reference them, mail/blog/movie/a game/this website/word/access/steam....i really need a 3rd/4th screen

windows 8 in desktop mode can do all of that, but then metro becomes completly redundant, and i don't want it to be redundant, i don't want to have to use a start button ala win 7, i want metro to bloody well work for the many different people that will use it.

 

[Max Peck]

I've had both joys and frustrations using Windows 8 ... Try not to flame me too badly.

We're not into flaming around here. What do you think this is, anyway, ZDNet? ;-)

Your concerns are all valid. After observing Win8 for a year (in VM's) and testing "Pro" on my machine for a month I decided that, at least for me, it's an irrelevant release of the O/S. My machine is back to Win7 and is a happy camper again.

One of my best friends came to me today and told me he'd bought a new laptop for his mom. (She's in her late 70's or something). Pre-loaded with Win8 and caused all kinds of headaches. To people who aren't experts like many of us on this board, Win8 is going to be very annoying. We've covered most of the why's and wherefore's by now but, relax, you're not going nuts, and you're not alone.

-Max

 

[crawfish]

The "Windows" comments are cute, but ignore the fact that Windows is filled with Windows, even in full-screen mode. Every button, every icon, every link, every textbox is a window...

That is blatantly untrue. I did real "windows programming" for a while, and those items (buttons, icons, links, menus) are NOT windows.

It's neither blatantly untrue nor absolutely true. It depends very much on the program. It is largely true for conventional Windows API programs. It's mostly untrue for dialog boxes in programs like Office and has been for a long time, as Microsoft went their own way with that instead of using the native Windows controls. If you have Spy++ or Sysinternals Process Explorer, you can drag their "Find Window" tool around the screen. They will draw a heavy border around every window you hover over (though certain trickery can cause false negatives). For example, for the main Outloook 2013 options dialog, most of the contents are not windows. For iTunes 11 Preferences, every label, checkbox, button, editbox, etc is a window, a standard Windows "control", with window classes including "STATIC", "EDIT", "BUTTON", "COMBOBOX", etc.

The "window" is the "container" that holds a set of those items. The "window" is what you drag around the screen, open and close, and resize.

While true as far as it goes, that is a blatantly incomplete definition of "window" in Windows programming.

 

[darvin]

It should be noted that what a programmer might call a window in code isn't always considered a window by anyone else, especially the end user. You'd never refer to an icon, link or text box as window in a tech manual. If you did, users would never get past the first page of the instruction manual and you'd confuse the hell out of them.

For purposes of the intent of my original post a window is a separate discreet program running in it's own frame. The difference intended is that Tablet applications are not designed to run in a window but there is no reason why Windows 8 couldn't run Metro apps in a Window. To me it's counter to the product name which is Windows.

Mystere pointed out this is an interim OS. I am not sure where he is getting that but assuming it's true, I believe that Windows 8 was in development long enough to have been able to run instances of of Metro tablet apps in separate Windows on the desktop.

 

[crawfish]

While true as far as it goes, that is a blatantly incomplete definition of "window" in Windows programming.

It should be noted that what a programmer might call a window in code isn't always considered a window by anyone else, especially the end user.

Yeah, well, it should be noted I was replying to someone who was speaking as a programmer:

That is blatantly untrue. I did real "windows programming" for a while, and those items (buttons, icons, links, menus) are NOT windows. The "window" is the "container" that holds a set of those items. The "window" is what you drag around the screen, open and close, and resize.

And please preview your posts and check the quoting. You attributed the correct statement I wrote to the guy I was correcting. I had to fix it in this reply to you. And because you incompletely quoted me, it should be noted that the part you did quote pertains only to Phelps' last sentence. I responded to his preceding statements separately, as they aren't "true as far as it goes".

 

[darvin]

And please preview your posts and check the quoting. You attributed the correct statement I wrote to the guy I was correcting. I had to fix it in this reply to you. And because you incompletely quoted me, it should be noted that the part you did quote pertains only to Phelps' last sentence. I responded to his preceding statements separately, as they aren't "true as far as it goes".

My apologies... a simple PM would have sufficed. I would have fixed the quote.

 

[Mustang]

If memory serves me right in the stone age they used stone tablets to communicate on which they chipped out pictures, (icons). The first computer back then was probably called "Inca 8". This pre-dated the Romans using wax tablets and a stylus. Which in turn predated the printing press and text. And now we're back to pictures, (icons) on a Metro tablet. And of course there was the Abacus.

I guess chimpaneze could be taught to use icon tablets if they got a banana each time they hit the correct icon?

It's said that one picture can tell a thousand words. But I haven't seen too many best seller novels comprised of 40 or 50 pictures ... except kiddies books and comics.

Or a book with an index of 40 or 50 single page pictures for every chapter.

 

[crawfish]

My apologies... a simple PM would have sufficed. I would have fixed the quote.

Yet you've gone and done it again. This time, you attributed what I said to yourself.