Windows 8.1 Start button may not offer actual Start menu

Windows 8 users hoping for a return of the traditional Start button and Start menu in Windows 8.1 may be disappointed.

Rumors have floated recently that Microsoft may revive the familiar Start button in the Windows 8.1 update scheduled for release later this year. A new report today from The Verge claims that "sources familiar with Microsoft's plans" have confirmed the return of the Start button.

But... Yes, there always seems to be a but....

Read more at source:
Windows 8.1 Start button may not offer actual Start menu | Microsoft - CNET News

 

[Mustang]

START button does have a use in Windows 8.1.

It's irrelevant to me because I don't like and never use Modern Start Screen. And a nuisance because I need it to function to open legacy menu, but it borks StartIsBack, which I paid for and is now apparently redundant in W8.1.

 

[McRuff]

but it borks StartIsBack, which I paid for and is now apparently redundant in W8.1.

All fixed now in free update StartIsBack +

StartIsBack+ Beta 4 - Windows 8 - MSFN Forum

 

[Mustang]

but it borks StartIsBack, which I paid for and is now apparently redundant in W8.1.

All fixed now in free update StartIsBack +

StartIsBack+ Beta 4 - Windows 8 - MSFN Forum

Hey thanks heaps McRuff. :thumb: I'm a happy camper again! And will now take advantage of free W8.1. Cheers M

 

[EMINENT]

The new start button in 8.1 is pretty useful when I'm in extended desktop on my Surface, but most of the time I don't even notice it's there. That was the only use I had for it. I can see why desktop only users would care, but it doesn't negate the fact that it wasn't detrimental to using 8 before 8.1.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
some people can make a decent use of it - if you disable the Corner navigation and set the Application screen to appear FIRST when you want to navigate to the start screen.

A lot of W8 users who have not yet tried W8.1 probably don't realize that there are now TWO possibliliteies of Start screen - the standard horrible METRO one and an application screen. (Plus always remembering boot directly to desktop).

If you need to get to the application screen quickly and have disabled the corner navigation then the start button actually has a point.

For TOUCH users or those that still use the standard windows 8 methods of navigation (corners) then the button does seem a bit stupid -- I'd have designed W8.1 that the start button only appears IF you've turned off the corner navigation -- but unfortunately Ms never asked for my input before designing W8.1 !!!!!.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Wenda]

Being able to go directly to All Apps when the Start button is clicked is the go. Much better than the Start Screen, so much so that I hardly ever even see the Start Screen. Set All Apps to sort apps & programs by category and it actually does work quite well as a start menu.

Needs more customisation options, though.

I've left the hot-corners active as I do use metro occasionally, but am mainly a desktop person. 8.1 is set to boot directly to the desktop.

So far, I've found no need to install Classic Shell. I do have the Quick-Launch toolbar activated though, for frequently used programs, as I cannot abide a desktop or taskbar full of icons and pinned programs/apps.

See below... You'll notice that I have 8.1's built-in Start Menu activated Win 8 also has this (as Jimbo has posted on several occasions). I subsequently deactivated it, but wanted to see if it was still in there.

Once you get it going without an MS account, and disable all the net-centric crap, it's a truly lovely OS to use.

Or it will be, once it's de-bugged properly. All Win 8's good bits are still there and in some cases improved, and the re-vamped Start Screen/button/menu setup is just icing.

Wenda.

 

[Mustang]

@Wenda. I haven't installed 8.1 yet. I'm a little confused by your diagrams. Are you saying you're able to open any desktop progam/app without having to leave the desktop?

I cannot abide a desktop or taskbar full of icons and pinned programs/apps.

I presume the first three pics are of your desktop, and the last one the apps screen, not desktop? Aren't you showing pinned icons in the bottom task bar in the first 3 pics, which seems to countermand your statement above ... or am I reading it wrong?

Are the two quick launch toolbars shown ones you have custom created by adding apps/programs, or a short cut to the Win8 Start Menu, or what?

In essence it seems the two quick launch toolbars have replaced the legacy alpha numeric cascaded start menu, and jump start menu, in Win7?

Also in legacy start menu, clicking User name takes you to App/Data, Contacts, Favorites, etc. Has the apps screen replaced this?

When I need to reload an Acronis image of my OS, which includes all 3rd party apps, but no personal data, to put all my personal data back I simply click User name, then drag/drop all my data from a 2nd internal SATA3 SSD HD into Documents, Favorites, Contacts, etc. And all personal files to empty personal files already pre-created in the backup image which has been reinstalled. Only takes 4 or 5 minutes max as both internal HDs are SATA3 SSDs. I don't have to open any personal files on desktop as the stored data folders in the 2nd HD have the same names as the ones on the desktop, so simply drag/drop the whole folder and it auto places contents in OS folder.

I don't auto backup my data because it also auto backs up any errors, and doesn't remove any deleted/edited files in the source files. I do it all manually. My data is also backed up to an external USB HD and eSATA HD.

 

[Superfly]

Don't see how that application screen can be described as an improvement to the good ol' menu - it's just as Wenda said, it's like a desktop screen filled with icons/shortcuts - that clutter, I have always detested...so the applications screen is definitely not an option for me...I'm sure others would find it useful/amusing though

 

[Hopachi]

Don't see how that application screen can be described as an improvement to the good ol' menu - it's just as Wenda said, it's like a desktop screen filled with icons/shortcuts - that clutter, I have always detested...so the applications screen is definitely not an option for me...I'm sure others would find it useful/amusing though

They do seem to be 'cluttered' in an alphabetical order though.

Anyway there are a lot of icons there to look at, so using search on the start screen might be faster in getting the program you need running.

Depends on personal choice...

 

[HippsieGypsie]

For those who haven't seen this: Designing search for the Start screen

MS's data shows that less and less we're using the Start Menu as time went on. When users filled up there Taskbar (Quicklaunch) they started plastering shortcuts on the desktop. Not saying all did this, but most. I've seen many a desktop done this way, including mine. Why? I think it to be that cascading menus take too long to navigate through. It seems shortcuts were faster and/or more convenient.

Now here comes MS trying to develop a touch-centric OS to run across all devices, including the desktop PC. They needed a touch platform on a larger human scale for launching. That's the Start Screen and All Apps screen, but it's really the All Apps screen that replaces the Start Menu. All Apps is quicker to me. It continues to be alphanumeric, but the user can choose any category. BTW, choose a category and it remains that way whenever returning to the screen.

One can, but I don't think Ms intended for desktop PC users to use touch, for they designed it to work just as well with mouse and keyboard. One has just as many options, if not more, using the Charms bar vs an app menu bar with quicker speed. IMO once learned it is a much better way of navigating. For one, everything is on a larger scale. The second is that its not cascading in the traditional sense. e.g. If one chooses "Settings" it opens to that menu. It cascades in a sense that it opens to the next menu, but more comprehensible and apprehensible IMO.

As Hopachi stated > Depends on personal choice... Personally, once learned, I get around in 8 and 8.1 quicker than in 7. Admittingly a bigger learning curve, but all in all a much better system to me. Although they sucked at first (only to get better with time) I found that using the basic MS Store apps such as Mail, People, Calendar, Photos, Bing Weather, and the like to be much quicker on the Metro side than using traditional desktop apps. It took a lot more time and resources to get information using desktop apps and Gadgets than the Modern/Metro ones with live tiles. Using "Share" option in the Charms bar is also very useful.

I made it a point to learn and continue to learn the whole system as it was intended to be used. Now with more options in 8.1 I find it to be even better.

 

[Wenda]

Hey, Mustang! Sorry for the delay...

No, the icons on the taskbar aren't pinned. The 3 to the immediate right of the 'Start' button are the first 3 items in the Quick-Launch toolbar (I can hide them by moving Quick-Launch to the far left of the taskbar), the rest are programs which were running, but which I'd minimised for the purpose of grabbing the screen-dump. Sorry, I should have made that clear earlier.

Both of these 'menus' are built-in to both 8 and 8.1, but aren't that easy to find. Jimbo's got a tutorial somewhere, and I've posted how to do it somewhere, but I can't find the page.

Soooo.....

To get the built-in Start menu: Unlock the taskbar, then right click it. Select Toolbars>New Toolbar. Then drill down through Program Data>Microsoft>Windows>Start Menu. Highlight but do not open the Start Menu folder. Click on OK, move the launcher icon to your desired spot on the taskbar, then re-lock the taskbar.

Voila! A 'classic-style' start menu... without any 3rd-party additions.

To enable the Quick-Launch toolbar: Follow the same procedure, but drill down through Users>Username> Appdata>Roaming>Microsoft>Internet Explorer. Highlight but do not open the Quick-Lainch folder. Click OK, then configure Quick-Launch on the taskbar, Re-lock the taskbar.

Done!

Hope that may be of help someone..



Wenda.

 

[DavidY]

For those who haven't seen this: Designing search for the Start screen

MS's data shows that less and less we're using the Start Menu as time went on. When users filled up there Taskbar (Quicklaunch) they started plastering shortcuts on the desktop. Not saying all did this, but most. I've seen many a desktop done this way, including mine. Why? I think it to be that cascading menus take too long to navigate through. It seems shortcuts were faster and/or more convenient.

Yes but Microsoft also say (in an earlier one in the same series of blog posts).

The message is clear that the majority of people want most of their apps on the taskbar rather than having to dig into Start.

So why isn't the taskbar visible (or at least accessible through some gesture) all through Windows 8, instead of just on the Desktop? Microsoft seem happy to ignore their own research when it suits them.

 

[Superfly]

For those who haven't seen this: Designing search for the Start screen

MS's data shows that less and less we're using the Start Menu as time went on. When users filled up there Taskbar (Quicklaunch) they started plastering shortcuts on the desktop. Not saying all did this, but most. I've seen many a desktop done this way, including mine. Why? I think it to be that cascading menus take too long to navigate through. It seems shortcuts were faster and/or more convenient.

Yes but Microsoft also say (in an earlier one in the same series of blog posts).

The message is clear that the majority of people want most of their apps on the taskbar rather than having to dig into Start.

So why isn't the taskbar visible (or at least accessible through some gesture) all through Windows 8, instead of just on the Desktop? Microsoft seem happy to ignore their own research when it suits them.

I would like to see the 'billions of telemetry requests per day' info they receive being analyzed independently TBH....would make really interesting reading!

If anyone is interested..apply here

 

[HippsieGypsie]

For those who haven't seen this: Designing search for the Start screen

MS's data shows that less and less we're using the Start Menu as time went on. When users filled up there Taskbar (Quicklaunch) they started plastering shortcuts on the desktop. Not saying all did this, but most. I've seen many a desktop done this way, including mine. Why? I think it to be that cascading menus take too long to navigate through. It seems shortcuts were faster and/or more convenient.

Yes but Microsoft also say (in an earlier one in the same series of blog posts).

The message is clear that the majority of people want most of their apps on the taskbar rather than having to dig into Start.

So why isn't the taskbar visible (or at least accessible through some gesture) all through Windows 8, instead of just on the Desktop? Microsoft seem happy to ignore their own research when it suits them.

Good question and statement. I'll try to explain why I think they did it following a few statements. MS is seeking to make profit by creating and selling good products and services. Keep in mind that I think MS's first and foremost goal is to get an OS that performs across multiple devices in conjunction with Windows Phone 8. This, I think, is one better than any of the competition is doing. This is where I think they will eventually win out. All devices syncing no matter which device one uses. Cloud-centricity via an account. That's the market today.

As to your question; One can only fit so many icons on the taskbar. I realize one could unlock it and size it bigger for more icons, but then that starts to crowd desktop real estate. After that was full and if one did not like to use the Start Menu, one would start placing them on the desktop. I was one that did that. I found it quicker to launch something rather than going through the Start menu. I had them all memorized as to their place. Heck, I even started plastering a lot of my favorites there, for I figured it a waste of time to open a browser to homepage and then look through favorites to find the site I'm looking for when I can do it all with one shortcut/icon. Poof > Done. I have seen many a desktop of users that did the same thing. How about you?

Keep in mind along the way we got into gadgets. I thought them to be handy little things. Those started to crowd the desktop also. Lol! It got to be quite a mess.

This is where I think Ms got the idea of one-screen Start Screen. This replaces the messy desktop. One can organize it and title them in columns personal to them. The live tiles replace the gadgets. The one-screen All Apps replaces the Start Menu. IMO we now have the best of both worlds.

Coinciding with this they needed a human-scaled touch-centric launching platform. That's why the full screens with a new GUI. It would be rather difficult to navigate through a cascading menu with a finger. It needs to be a larger scale. Start Screen, All Apps, Hot Corners, and Charms bars are the new way of navigating in the new GUI. It also works well with keyboard and mouse. No one is forced to use touch.

I don't think a taskbar would work across all the screens for it's two different kinds of GUIs. It would be like trying to mix oil with water. This is why the desktop is treated as a portal or app. It's no longer the primary means of navigation. Modern/Metro is. Besides, where else would it be useful other than the desktop screen? There are only two other screens of which use tiles. A taskbar would defeat the purpose.

As others are stating, MS came a long way with 8.1 to try and appease "desktoppers". It can now be configured to boot straight to desktop and bypass the Start Screen to All Apps screen. More options available in "Taskbar and Navigation Properties" as shown below. One does not need to see or use, nor does it seem that MS is "forcing" anyone to use Modern/Metro, although that GUI still remains the primary means for navigation.


View attachment 25974

 

[CountMike]

If you install Win8 with Local account it boots to Metro anyway. If and when needed, you could temporally sign into MS account, the app in question will ask you to.

 

[DavidY]

As to your question; One can only fit so many icons on the taskbar. I realize one could unlock it and size it bigger for more icons, but then that starts to crowd desktop real estate. After that was full and if one did not like to use the Start Menu, one would start placing them on the desktop. I was one that did that. I found it quicker to launch something rather than going through the Start menu. I had them all memorized as to their place. Heck, I even started plastering a lot of my favorites there, for I figured it a waste of time to open a browser to homepage and then look through favorites to find the site I'm looking for when I can do it all with one shortcut/icon. Poof > Done. I have seen many a desktop of users that did the same thing. How about you?

I open Favourites from the Start Menu (on pre-Windows-8 PCs) or in Windows 8 from the Favourites toolbar that I created using this technique applied to the Favourites folder rather than the Start Menu. This means I open them in one click before the browser is even open -sounds similar to what you do?

[The only problem is that IE10 often loses all the tabs from the previous session when you do this. For some reason Firefox does this so much better, and has been doing so for years.]

And yes I have seen many people with Desktops that they've filled with just a sea of unsorted icons - it looks horrible!

 

[SIW2]

Interesting PR piece by Stevie S. They could bind that blog up and sell it to Disney.

 

[CountMike]

Interesting PR piece by Stevie S. They could bind that blog up and sell it to Disney.

Why Disney, they would just make a big flop of it like all the others lately.

 

[Mustang]

Hey, Mustang! Sorry for the delay...

No, the icons on the taskbar aren't pinned. The 3 to the immediate right of the 'Start' button are the first 3 items in the Quick-Launch toolbar (I can hide them by moving Quick-Launch to the far left of the taskbar), the rest are programs which were running, but which I'd minimised for the purpose of grabbing the screen-dump. Sorry, I should have made that clear earlier.

Both of these 'menus' are built-in to both 8 and 8.1, but aren't that easy to find. Jimbo's got a tutorial somewhere, and I've posted how to do it somewhere, but I can't find the page.

Soooo.....

To get the built-in Start menu: Unlock the taskbar, then right click it. Select Toolbars>New Toolbar. Then drill down through Program Data>Microsoft>Windows>Start Menu. Highlight but do not open the Start Menu folder. Click on OK, move the launcher icon to your desired spot on the taskbar, then re-lock the taskbar.

Voila! A 'classic-style' start menu... without any 3rd-party additions.

To enable the Quick-Launch toolbar: Follow the same procedure, but drill down through Users>Username> Appdata>Roaming>Microsoft>Internet Explorer. Highlight but do not open the Quick-Lainch folder. Click OK, then configure Quick-Launch on the taskbar, Re-lock the taskbar.

Done!

Hope that may be of help someone..



Wenda.

Hi Wenda,

Thanks for that info. I must have been in la la land when I read your post. When Win8 first came out, and before StartIsBack or any other 3rd party software was around, I had made similar custom tool bars, but had forgotten all about it as have been using StartIsBack ever since W8 became my flagship OS back around January.

Since McRuff pointed out, and I've confirmed, that StartIsBackPlus is a free upgrade to the original software, and is designed to work on W8.1, I'll personally stick to the legacy Start/Menu.

However, since I repair/reinstall PCs for various others, it's good to have the options you've shown up my sleeve to be able to help those who don't want to use 3rd party stuff.

Like you said, W8 is a good system once the bugs are ironed out and it's customized to taste. One small example: It takes 5 seconds to open a Word/Excel doco on W7 from a cold start ... W8 does it almost instantly. Since I do a lot of tax work on spread sheets, and am often opening and shutting multiple files, copying/pasting, etc ... it was a constant ongoing major pain in the butt on W7. Like many things with PCs you adjust, but when a better option appears you grab it with open arms.

My main problem with W8 is Intel. My flagship mobo is an extreme Intel and even though it's under 2 years old, Intel don't support it for drivers for W8. So I'm running it on generic W8 drivers. It all works ... sorta! With 3 SLI linked graphics cards, if I use the latest NVIDIA drivers specifically for W8, I get periodic but regular hangs all related to graphics. That's my main Grrrrrrrr!!!! With a bit of luck that will get sorted when I install the final version of W8.1.

Always enjoy your posts. Cheers to' Down Under' from M!
Or should that be "cheers for beers"!

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Interesting PR piece by Stevie S. They could bind that blog up and sell it to Disney.

It's interesting that you distort that which you don't agree with.